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Offlineexclusive58
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Registered: 04/16/04
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Al Qaeda does not exist and never has
    #4509720 - 08/08/05 07:52 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The basic truth is that Al Qaeda does not exist and never has. Al Qaeda is a manufactured enemy who was created by the Bush Administration in order to have an excuse to wage a war for the control of the world's oil resources.

Did an American even hear the words "Al Qaeda" before 9-11? Or were we told that its alleged leader Osama Bin Laden has family who themselves have personal business relationships with George W. Bush"s family and that both families had financially profited considerably from the "War on Terror"?

If "Al Qaeda" was such an organized group terrorists as we are being told then why weren"t we the people notified of this evil threat when the US Cole was bombed a few months before 9-11? "Al Qaeda" is nothing more than a broad euphemistic umbrella classification used to group any Middle Eastern fighter under the Sun as an enemy. The most diabolical aspect of this public relations stunt is that it enables the current Administration to label any group it feels necessary to attack to appear to be related to an unprovable organized enemy while at the same time actually increasing its approval ratings by exploiting the basic primal fears of the American public. Furthermore when one realizes the questionable motivations that this Administration has used previously to attack an enemy, as what is now surfacing about the Iraq War, one begins to get the strange feeling that this Orwellian double-speak is nothing more than a smoke and mirror illusion whose true intentions would of made Goebbels himself jealous.

Think about it: How could a bunch of technologically unadvanced group of people from third-world nations such as "Al Qaeda" ever have any real central organization structure? If they had any real organization they would have most certainly attacked us again after September eleventh. Where are all the terrorist cells in this country? Contrary to what has been implicitly presented in the media there HAS NEVER been a single domestic terror cell caught since Bush has been in office! The majority of suspects that have been arrested and detained in the immediate aftermath of 9-11 with the exception of a handful have not been charged with crimes in anyway associated with terrorism. All of their crimes are minor and for the most part are ! related to immigration violations of some sort. There is some ambiguity in all of this though because to this day the Ashcroft Justice Department has been less than forthcoming with the specifics of these arrests. Why would this be the case if the justifications for these arrests were really legitimate? We have been bombarded by the media with every indignity from the duck-tape chronicles to the crop dusting threat. You would think that with all this seeming sensitivity by our government about informing the general populace about possible terror threats, especially when some of their sources came from "unnamed and confidential secondary sources", that the Ashcroft Justice Department would have gone out of it"s way to mention to the public any terrorist connections that the people detained after 9-11 had and would of sworn by it on a stack of Bibles.

To date the only really suspicious activity of people detained after 9-11 were a group of Israelis who were caught in Jersey City, New Jersey filming themselves in the foreground of the burning World Trade Center with "looks of jubilation on their faces". It was later confirmed that two of the gentlemen detained had known Mossad ties. While they were detained it is of no matter now as they were subsequently released from jail a few! weeks later and were allowed to go back to Israel with no questions asked by the direct authorization of the Justice Department. I guess they were just dropping off a box of cigars to Governor McGreevy?

What is even more illuminating about all of this is that to this day nobody has taken responsibility for the attacks of 9-11, including "Al Qaeda". The only thing to link these attacks to anyone is the video tape of Osama Bin Laden that was conveniently found in a cave in Afghanistan that had him talking about the physical structure of the World Trade Center and the plane strike. The audio quality of this tape is so poor that any objective Arab-speaking analyst who was asked to give their opinion was unable to do so! as they claimed that just about all the words on it were inaudible. I believe an objective investigation into this original tape"s authenticity could verify if this admission is in fact genuine and could shed some light on the truth of the existence of "Al Qaeda". But even if this tape is genuine what would this really prove? As I have already mentioned it is common knowledge that Osama Bin Laden is connected to George W. Bush"s family by a minimum of two degrees of separation. So in the grand scheme of things what does this really matter? That the Cobra Commander said he did it?

In summary, "Al Qaeda" does not exist nor has it ever. If it really existed to anywhere near the extent that we have been told then there would have been an attack on our homeland. Of course this proof of a negative is used by the Administration to justify themselves to the American public that they are doing their jobs, but when one realizes that "Al Qaeda" is really nothing more than an artificially manufactured enemy then what job are they really doing other than capitalizing off of people"s fears? What other issue does the present Administration have to offer the average working-class citizen other than security? And if security is really only a Red Herring platform issue, then of what use are they to begin with? In addition, ! if there were any degree of truth in the strength of "Al Qaeda" or even of their very existence then there would have been a much larger resistance in Afghanistan and especially in Iraq. If an organization structure existed within "Al Qaeda" then you would have seen the Iraqi resistance be a much more conventional ! one. They would have had the communication capability and weapons arsenal to mount a more traditional counter-offensive against our troops and they would have been successful doing it because our force"s numbers are so minimal. This would have been a prime opportunity to defeat "the great satan" in front of the entire world. Their motivation to do so would have been so strong that in order for them to of not of done this one must make the quantum leap and conclude that "Al Qaeda" is much to do about nothing and always has been. The emperor is naked and running through the courtyard with a great big barrel of oil.

http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/101/397/13821_AlQaeda.html


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: exclusive58]
    #4509762 - 08/08/05 08:32 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The term "Al-Qaeda" provides a handy umbrella term to serve as a point of focus for the media. If you are a Muslim and an extremist then you must, by definition, be a member of Al-Qaeda. The closest the bombers in London probabaly ever got to Bin Laden was through watching the TV and reading newspapers. I dont believe they were directed in anyway by some form of central command or the like.
But using this term makes it easier to deny the reality that we are creating the terrorists by our own actions.


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Always Smi2le


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: exclusive58]
    #4510171 - 08/08/05 01:09 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Al Qaeda = Emmanuel Goldstein

Al Qaeda in a way exists, but not as you've heard on tv. It's not even an "organization." It's more like an idealogy that people have rallied behind. There are no leaders, there are no sinister meetings where minutes are kept and plans are created in vast detail. There's no such thing as a "member" of Al Qaeda because they don't give out membership cards. They are simply people who choose to associate themselves with an idealogy, just like conservatives, liberals, libertarians do.

Beware the media spin.


Edited by moog (08/08/05 01:17 PM)


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: moog]
    #4510192 - 08/08/05 01:18 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

i am under the assumption that there are a large group of people in the middle east that believe if you don't follow their religion than you are evil and must die.

is this innaccurate?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: exclusive58]
    #4510195 - 08/08/05 01:19 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

That is quite possibly the most looney, uninformed conspiracy theory I've ever heard. Clinton specifically warned the incoming Bush whitehouse about the threat from Al Queda after the USS Cole bombing. Their operations in Sudan and Saudi Arabia were known prior to that, and I specifically remember a front-page article in Newsweek about Bin Laden during the Clinton years. Their operations have been known about for quite some time, despite what this idiot claims.


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OfflineSycronica
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: Silversoul]
    #4510333 - 08/08/05 02:14 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

9/11 and the london bombs were prolly both done by special forces.

Then again maybe muslims actually did this. But often looking to who has something to gain is where the fault lies. I fail to see what muslims have to gain by attacking london subways. Oooo they scared you guys and killed a few...what did they really gain? Now lets look at what blair has gained from it. Now when a policy desicion comes up the rest of their govt will jump right on board with whatever security measures he enacts. Just like the patriot act in 9/11.

It sure seems like the govt officals have much more to gain from any of these attacks since it futhers their ability to play on our fears. Since they obviously don't do anything they say they are going to do to get elected, then what are they doing? I don't know if certain people in our govt are behind this or not, but I sure know it serves their needs for these conviently placed attacks.

I thought that was a very good read. Wish more of the general public would open their eyes and form their own opinions on the world instead of blindly swallowing every edict from bush.


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Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: Silversoul]
    #4510978 - 08/08/05 06:01 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Well personally i realized that i had never heard of Al Qaeda prior to 9-11, and that's the time when they started retelling the terrorist atttacks they had comitted before 9-11 that i had never heard of, like the USS Cole bombing. I think this goes for alot of americans;

The whole radicalization of the Al Qaeda threat seems very strange to me, especially when the term "Al Qaeda" seemed to be something introduced to me by the media, without any real proof of it. Even more when you find out that the "network" was originally not a terrorist organisation but a group of warlords funded by the CIA to fight against the left-wing, secular government of the Peoples Democratic Party of Afghanistan, after it came to power in 1978. 20 billion dollars in total was given to them.

And if you think that Bin Laden's video is a proof of the existence of Al Qaeda, well i say that its a peculiar thing how they conveniently found the video in a cave in Afghanistan. And if the guy that wrote the article is correct, apparently the audio quality of the tape was very poor to the point that it was practially impossible to understand what Bin Laden was saying...

And Syncronica brought up a good point..who really gained from the big terrorist attacks? An invisible terrorist network? I think you know the answer to that...

And how surprising is the fact that the Bin Laden family has such close ties to the Bush family? Why is it that the only plane that was allowed to take offf from the US after 9-11 was a plane full of Osama's relatives??


Although i read the article with skepticism, like everyone should, the man brings up some good points. Things are getting really crazy, I don't know what to make of all of this, and i don't see how one could claim knowing what the hell is going on.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: exclusive58]
    #4511116 - 08/08/05 06:47 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
Well personally i realized that i had never heard of Al Qaeda prior to 9-11, and that's the time when they started retelling the terrorist atttacks they had comitted before 9-11 that i had never heard of, like the USS Cole bombing. I think this goes for alot of americans;



Most Americans didn't know where Pearl Harbor was before it was attacked. That doesn't mean it was all made up.

Quote:

The whole radicalization of the Al Qaeda threat seems very strange to me, especially when the term "Al Qaeda" seemed to be something introduced to me by the media, without any real proof of it. Even more when you find out that the "network" was originally not a terrorist organisation but a group of warlords funded by the CIA to fight against the left-wing, secular government of the Peoples Democratic Party of Afghanistan, after it came to power in 1978. 20 billion dollars in total was given to them.



What you are referring to there is the mujahideen, who were supported in their fight against Soviet occupation. After the Soviet occupation, there were a number of splinter groups formed from the mujahideen, of which Al Queda was one.

Quote:

And if you think that Bin Laden's video is a proof of the existence of Al Qaeda, well i say that its a peculiar thing how they conveniently found the video in a cave in Afghanistan. And if the guy that wrote the article is correct, apparently the audio quality of the tape was very poor to the point that it was practially impossible to understand what Bin Laden was saying...



I didn't mention anything about a video. I was refuting the ridiculous claim of the author about there being no mention of Bin Laden or Al Queda prior to 9/11. There was a front page cover story about Bin Laden in Newsweek following the USS Cole bombing. You may not remember it, but I do. I was quite wary of Osama Bin Laden before the 2000 election.

Quote:

And Syncronica brought up a good point..who really gained from the big terrorist attacks? An invisible terrorist network? I think you know the answer to that...



Of course the federal government stands to gain from an outside threat which keeps the populace in fear. The same is true of any enemy. That doesn't make the enemy non-existent. In fact, Bush and Bin Laden both stand to gain from their mutual war. Both sides are becoming more powerful as a result. There needn't be any collaboration for this to be so.

Quote:

And how surprising is the fact that the Bin Laden family has such close ties to the Bush family? Why is it that the only plane that was allowed to take offf from the US after 9-11 was a plane full of Osama's relatives??



The Bin Laden family disowned Osama long ago. Their blood relation is of no relevance. They are not involved in Al Queda.

Quote:

Although i read the article with skepticism, like everyone should, the man brings up some good points. Things are getting really crazy, I don't know what to make of all of this, and i don't see how one could claim knowing what the hell is going on.



There are no good point he brings up that couldn't have been addressed in a more sane manner.


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: Silversoul]
    #4511190 - 08/08/05 07:14 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
And how surprising is the fact that the Bin Laden family has such close ties to the Bush family? Why is it that the only plane that was allowed to take offf from the US after 9-11 was a plane full of Osama's relatives??



The Bin Laden family disowned Osama long ago. Their blood relation is of no relevance. They are not involved in Al Queda.





That still doen't give a good enough reason to explain why such privileges were given to the Bin Laden family. None of the family members were interrogated before leaving US soil, not anything was demanded from them, not even a simple "do you know where Osama is?"They were given a free ticket to Saudi Arabia for no apparent reason. Is that what usually happens to the family of a suspect? I think not.


Well, this is going off subject although it is still interesting.

I'd be glad if you could find me a piece of evidence that shows the existence of the Al Qaeda organization, as i'm sure you'd like that just as much in order to debunk the totality of this guy's article.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: exclusive58]
    #4511273 - 08/08/05 07:40 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
That still doen't give a good enough reason to explain why such privileges were given to the Bin Laden family. None of the family members were interrogated before leaving US soil, not anything was demanded from them, not even a simple "do you know where Osama is?"They were given a free ticket to Saudi Arabia for no apparent reason. Is that what usually happens to the family of a suspect? I think not.



As you said, this is getting off the subject, so I'll let someone who cares answer that for you.

Quote:

I'd be glad if you could find me a piece of evidence that shows the existence of the Al Qaeda organization, as i'm sure you'd like that just as much in order to debunk the totality of this guy's article.



Actually, Al Qaeda isn't so much an organization so much as it is a network of organizations, sort of like the Russian mafia. As such, I can't say that this article is 100% bullshit, though he does talk out his ass a great deal. What is known is that a man name Osama bin Laden provides funding and to various terrorist cells which are collectively described as "Al Qaeda," and issues edicts for them to kill Westerners. Do you deny any of this?


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: exclusive58]
    #4514067 - 08/09/05 01:06 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)


Did an American even hear the words "Al Qaeda" before 9-11?


Actually, yes. If they paid enough attention to these things, they would have heard of them.

How could a bunch of technologically unadvanced group of people from third-world nations such as "Al Qaeda" ever have any real central organization structure?

Oh yeah, people from third world countries can't be organized. :rolleyes:

That actually seems kind of flat out racist to me. What, you can't organize anything unless you're rich and white? Gimme a break.

If it really existed to anywhere near the extent that we have been told then there would have been an attack on our homeland.

Well no, not necessarily. How extensive Al Qaeda is may have been exagerrated somewhat, but this doesn't necessarily mean that it's a lie or anything.

Ever consider that maybe the government, being humans, assumed that Al Qaeda was bigger and more pervasive due to the fact that they carried out 9/11?

No, of course not. Obviously the government is like an evil supergod that knows everything. Anything they ever say that is incorrect is not the result of error. The government cannot get things wrong, any errors are in fact conspiracies to deceive us.

Why does this guy keep saying "If Al Qaeda were a big as they're supposed to be, then they would be able to do X". How would he know? These are just complete assumptions that he's made, not based on any kind of measurable fact, just based on "Well, it seems like it should be this way".

I might as well say "Hey, if the government were REALLY researching space exploration, we'd already be colonizing Pluto by now".

This is the sloppiest kind of evidence for anything.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: Phluck]
    #4514620 - 08/09/05 04:02 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

My understanding of the origination of the term goes back to the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan. Supposedly, Bin Laden was providing brief orientation and assistance to foreign fighters coming into the country. No records were kept of this activity at first, but there were so many requests from family members back home of those trying to find the whereabouts of their loved ones that a list (Al Qaeda) was started that kept a record of the names of people who briefly passed through the facilities. So Al Qaeda meant 'the list' and was never an actual organization. It would seem that Western governments seeking to have something tangible, seized upon Al Qaeda as a list of jihadists and started to address the efforts of the decentralized jihadists under this term.

Of course Al Qaeda now serves both the interests of jihadists and The U.S. government as an important rallying point for their respective propaganda efforts. The U.S. government can target Al Qaeda much as it is comfortable targeting nation states, unfortunately the reality is that Al Qaeda is not a nation state and is not subject to the command and control structure of a national army, it is a movement, without borders, without membership dues or national loyalty oaths. The U.S. unwittingly fosters it's growth through its foreign policy and methods of fighting that are better suited to the conflicts of the last century. In the information age communities are increasingly virtual, not bound by geography, but ideology and common cause and they do use, and will increase their use of the increasingly inexpensive and increasingly effective tools available to all in the dawn of this age.


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: exclusive58]
    #4514637 - 08/09/05 04:08 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

You're not completely right, but in some aspects I believe you are on the right path.

Al Qaeda is, I believe, not an organization as we'd think of it in the West. An interesting speculative article about this is at:
http://www.rotten.com/library/conspiracy/al-qaeda-and-the-assassins/


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: Silversoul]
    #4517328 - 08/10/05 09:45 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Thanx for the input Paradigm, Phluck, Prosgeopax, and Ravus, you guys bring up some interesting points, i'll have to contemplate more on all of this, and i'll be looking out for the nex time that the Bush administration puts the blame on Al Qaeda as an excuse go to fight in another coutry or something like that. Because i think that this:

" "Al Qaeda" is nothing more than a broad euphemistic umbrella classification used to group any Middle Eastern fighter under the Sun as an enemy. The most diabolical aspect of this public relations stunt is that it enables the current Administration to label any group it feels necessary to attack to appear to be related to an unprovable organized enemy while at the same time actually increasing its approval ratings by exploiting the basic primal fears of the American public. Furthermore when one realizes the questionable motivations that this Administration has used previously to attack an enemy, as what is now surfacing about the Iraq War, one begins to get the strange feeling that this Orwellian double-speak is nothing more than a smoke and mirror illusion whose true intentions would of made Goebbels himself jealous. "

has alot of truth in it. So although we might not agree, lets just tune in our attention to whats going on, just in case...


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InvisibleLos_Pepes
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: exclusive58]
    #4518989 - 08/10/05 06:53 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Proof Al Qaeda exists:


In video footage shot by an embedded CNN crew, soldiers walked through one imposing building with concrete columns with a large sign in Arabic on the wall reading "Al-Qaeda Organiation" and "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger."


http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,6119,2-10-1460_1623538,00.html


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: Los_Pepes]
    #4519814 - 08/10/05 11:04 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

The name Al-Queda was invented by the american government though.


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InvisibleIsaacHunt
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: exclusive58]
    #4520745 - 08/11/05 02:28 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Al-qaeda is simply a cute propaganda term. You couldn't get the same backing to start wars of conquest if your threat was "The Osama Bin Laden group" because then you would actually have to target Bin Laden rather than invade Iraq.

It's utterly meaningless and doesn't exist.


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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: IsaacHunt]
    #4520956 - 08/11/05 03:27 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

IsaacHunt said:
"The Osama Bin Laden group"




Didn't I see them play at the House of Blues?


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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OfflineUnagipie
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: exclusive58]
    #4521410 - 08/11/05 10:32 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Al Qaeda is an Arabic word that has been mutilated by popular culture. The word Al-Qaeda means "The Base" in English, which is likely a loose reference to the Taliban-era Afghanistan where jihadists were being trained from around the world. Today it's a collective term for the ideology of Muslims who believe they are at war with the United States. Bin Laden and Company likely only had knowledge of terrorist attacks up until 9-11. After that, they probably had no previous knowledge of all attacks that have taken place since. They probably didn't even see the Madrid or London bombings coming. Al Qaeda is now a base of violent ideology.


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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


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InvisibleIsaacHunt
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Re: Al Qaeda does not exist and never has [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4521584 - 08/11/05 12:49 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Didn't I see them play at the House of Blues?

Look out for their cover of "The Thrill is gone".


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