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Offlinefreddurgan
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Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design
    #4496054 - 08/04/05 07:08 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8792302/

It's not even like..subtle anymore. He just outright said it. The President of the United States of America.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: freddurgan]
    #4496144 - 08/04/05 07:50 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

It's not so much trying to teach religious beliefs in a science class, but trying to teach faith-based pseudoscience next to one of the greatest scientific theories of all time is simply ridiculous.


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: Ravus]
    #4496168 - 08/04/05 08:01 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Bush must be the first president who is stupider than the people who voted for him.


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OfflineSerioOria
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: freddurgan]
    #4496188 - 08/04/05 08:07 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

?I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought,? Bush said. ?You?re asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes.?




i agree fullheartedly with that remark... sadly bush only feels that way pertaining to religion

but i do think schools should teach both, perhaps having a required 'world religions' class and have more advanced classes as electives rather than the crap they have these days (in high school at least)


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Offlinefreddurgan
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: SerioOria]
    #4496222 - 08/04/05 08:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, offer it up along with other relgions. But don't put it in the context of science. Just make ONE class about relgion in general, called "World Religions" like you said, and make it mandatory. That's it. Anything MORE is optional.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: freddurgan]
    #4496237 - 08/04/05 08:17 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Why should it be mandatory? I'm not opposed to a World Religions class, but I don't see why it should be mandatory.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: Ravus]
    #4496363 - 08/04/05 08:44 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

ignorance about other religions is a cause for a lot of grief in the world, making it mandatory would help remove some ignorance. I agree that it shouldn't be mandatory though because no-one listens to things they don't want to know, especially high school students.


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Invisibletrick

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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: psychomime]
    #4496998 - 08/04/05 11:10 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Bush is actually pretty intelligent. He just uses the public image he has created as a front.


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OfflineTao
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: freddurgan]
    #4497083 - 08/04/05 11:34 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I learned about intelligent design in high school and its a very interesting idea---but I learned about it in a philosophyclass. Intelligent design should not be taught in a science class alongside evolution, for one thing, because they are not at all mutually exclusive.

One has to do with what happened in the last 4 billion years, the other, what happened 20+ billion years ago.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: Tao]
    #4497150 - 08/04/05 11:52 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tao said:
I learned about intelligent design in high school and its a very interesting idea---but I learned about it in a philosophyclass. Intelligent design should not be taught in a science class alongside evolution, for one thing, because they are not at all mutually exclusive.

One has to do with what happened in the last 4 billion years, the other, what happened 20+ billion years ago.




What? Where is there enough evidence to create a timeline for intelligent design? Last I checked, there was absolutely no strong evidence for creationism.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinefreddurgan
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: Ravus]
    #4497264 - 08/05/05 12:24 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Actually creationism is about the last 6000 years isn't it? Isn't that the supposed age of earth to creationists?


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: Tao]
    #4497385 - 08/05/05 12:43 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tao said:
I learned about intelligent design in high school and its a very interesting idea---but I learned about it in a philosophyclass. Intelligent design should not be taught in a science class alongside evolution, for one thing, because they are not at all mutually exclusive.





Exactly, the very idea that intelligent design is to be taught alongside scientific theory completely undermines the concept of science. "Intelligent Design", aside from being a horrific buzz word, has no scientific premise. By all means, teaching it in a religion course as an example of origin myths/beliefs is perfectly exceptable, but to pretend there is any science in it sends a very mixed message to students. How are kids supposed to understand the scientific method if our president doesn't?

There are those who attempt to use science to back creationism, but there usually are gaping holes in the evidence they use. Really though, "Intelligent Design" is a way to make creationism sound more credible. It's all marketing.


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The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: freddurgan]
    #4497753 - 08/05/05 01:39 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

freddurgan said:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8792302/

It's not even like..subtle anymore. He jus

t outright said it. The President of the United States of America.





Bush offering to teach creationism and evolution side by side? And you think this is a bad thing? Bush is one of the only right wingers that actually think youngins should even be exposed to the idea of creationism in schools.

You should be happy.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: BrAiN]
    #4497763 - 08/05/05 01:41 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
Quote:

freddurgan said:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8792302/

It's not even like..subtle anymore. He jus

t outright said it. The President of the United States of America.





Bush offering to teach creationism and evolution side by side? And you think this is a bad thing? Bush is one of the only right wingers that actually think youngins should even be exposed to the idea of creationism in schools.

You should be happy.



I'm fine with teaching creationism as a religious belief. Just don't try to pass that bullshit off as science.


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Offlinefreddurgan
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: BrAiN]
    #4498341 - 08/05/05 03:11 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
Quote:

freddurgan said:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8792302/

It's not even like..subtle anymore. He jus

t outright said it. The President of the United States of America.





Bush offering to teach creationism and evolution side by side? And you think this is a bad thing? Bush is one of the only right wingers that actually think youngins should even be exposed to the idea of creationism in schools.

You should be happy.




What are you talking about? Bush wants creationism to be taught WITH evolution, on equal footing, as the theory of creation. There is nothing to be happy about here. Are you confusing terms or something? I don't understand what you're getting at here..


--------------------
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http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: freddurgan]
    #4499016 - 08/05/05 09:11 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

freddurgan said:
Quote:

BrAiN said:
Quote:

freddurgan said:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8792302/

It's not even like..subtle anymore. He jus

t outright said it. The President of the United States of America.





Bush offering to teach creationism and evolution side by side? And you think this is a bad thing? Bush is one of the only right wingers that actually think youngins should even be exposed to the idea of creationism in schools.

You should be happy.




What are you talking about? Bush wants creationism to be taught WITH evolution, on equal footing, as the theory of creation. There is nothing to be happy about here. Are you confusing terms or something? I don't understand what you're getting at here..





Bush's quote: ?You?re asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes.?

95% of right winters will give you a big NO on that one. They give you that bullshit about how this country was founded on christianity and bla bla bla....

There are still plenty of schools out there (cough cough red states) that barely even touch evolution.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: BrAiN]
    #4499019 - 08/05/05 09:15 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

It is a bad idea. But in a way, so is teaching evolution. The tempers that it creates is almost not worth the hassle. Science in public schools is a drop in the bucket, and those who will go off to college will learn what it is really all about.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: looner2]
    #4499262 - 08/05/05 11:36 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Evolution has problems. For one thing, it is a theory and it can't be proven in a scientific sense, because you can't replicate it and demonstrate the results over and over. It would be impossible to me.

For the record I believe in both evolution and intelligent design, at least on some level. I believe that we have evolved over the billions of years, and that species have adapted and changed over the course of time.

The trick is following evolution all the way back to the origin of life. Under the theory of evolution, all of us have eventually evolved from primitive single cell organisms.

Where did these primitive single cell organisms come from? At one point, this planet was supposedly devoid of any life. Then at another point this planet had life. That is extraordinary and difficult to explain.

One day there was no life. The next day there was life. How did that happen?

All of our experience with life shows an unbroken string of predecessors. I came from my parents, they came from their parents, who came from their parents, and so on in an unbreakable chain. All animals and fish came about the same way through reproduction. Even simple organisms can trace their heritage through cell division. We haven't found any place where life just suddenly appears from nowhere, and that is a problem for evolution theory and the origin of life on this planet.

I don't think it is a bad question to ask, because it is a question I ask myself. Some people attribute the true origin of life to God, and I admit that I am one of those people. I am sure it isn't a popular position on this message board.

I don't always feel comfortable talking about my religious beliefs. For me religion is a personal thing. I don't try to convert people and I think that other people should be able to worship or to not worship as they choose.

As far as schools go, this wouldn't be an issue but for the monopoly that the government has created in education. I don't think that the government should be dictating what our children should and shouldn't learn. Many of you don't want George Bush deciding to teach "intelligent design" to our kids. That is fair. But you have to understand that people on the other side might now want their kids to hear what you have to say. I hate the whole idea of government indoctrinating our youth.

I went to a Roman Catholic school, and they taught evolution and Darwin and taught it well. I think that Charles Darwin is easily on of the greatest scientists in the history of man.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4499364 - 08/05/05 12:13 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

JesusChrist said:
Evolution has problems. For one thing, it is a theory and it can't be proven in a scientific sense, because you can't replicate it and demonstrate the results over and over. It would be impossible to me.

For the record I believe in both evolution and intelligent design, at least on some level. I believe that we have evolved over the billions of years, and that species have adapted and changed over the course of time.

The trick is following evolution all the way back to the origin of life. Under the theory of evolution, all of us have eventually evolved from primitive single cell organisms.

Where did these primitive single cell organisms come from? At one point, this planet was supposedly devoid of any life. Then at another point this planet had life. That is extraordinary and difficult to explain.

One day there was no life. The next day there was life. How did that happen?

All of our experience with life shows an unbroken string of predecessors. I came from my parents, they came from their parents, who came from their parents, and so on in an unbreakable chain. All animals and fish came about the same way through reproduction. Even simple organisms can trace their heritage through cell division. We haven't found any place where life just suddenly appears from nowhere, and that is a problem for evolution theory and the origin of life on this planet.

I don't think it is a bad question to ask, because it is a question I ask myself. Some people attribute the true origin of life to God, and I admit that I am one of those people. I am sure it isn't a popular position on this message board.

I don't always feel comfortable talking about my religious beliefs. For me religion is a personal thing. I don't try to convert people and I think that other people should be able to worship or to not worship as they choose.

As far as schools go, this wouldn't be an issue but for the monopoly that the government has created in education. I don't think that the government should be dictating what our children should and shouldn't learn. Many of you don't want George Bush deciding to teach "intelligent design" to our kids. That is fair. But you have to understand that people on the other side might now want their kids to hear what you have to say. I hate the whole idea of government indoctrinating our youth.

I went to a Roman Catholic school, and they taught evolution and Darwin and taught it well. I think that Charles Darwin is easily on of the greatest scientists in the history of man.




Evolution is not abiogenesis, and its more than just a "theory". These things get tiresome over the course of this debate, because its always the same talking points.

I am willing to concede that evolution does not need to be taught in public schools to save the onslaught of controversy, if the creationists would leave it at that and admit they have absolutely no clue about evolution and its relation to science. I think thats a fair compromise.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Bush: Schools should teach intelligent design [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4499380 - 08/05/05 12:20 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

JesusChrist said:
Evolution has problems. For one thing, it is a theory and it can't be proven in a scientific sense, because you can't replicate it and demonstrate the results over and over. It would be impossible to me.



First of all, there is no such thing in science as "proof." A theory may be supported over and over again by experiment after experiment, but it only takes one experiment to disprove it.

Second, evolution has been observed. We see microevolution occur all the time. In Japan, for instance, they're having to rebuild the subways to accomodate the increased average height of people over the last few decades. We've also seen evolution occur in micro-organisms. Penicilin used to be able to kill just about any bacteria, but now most of them have evolved immunities to it.


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