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Offlinedroptopsunfire03
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Registered: 08/04/05
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Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;)
    #4493388 - 08/04/05 02:37 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Hey guys I'm new to cultivating shrooms, have grown a bit of green in the past, still do but have recently tried shrooms and decide to grow some. I purchased a syringe of tequila spike s a while back and set up some jars(12) using brown rice flour. I pressure cooked them all etc etc, and they are all now showing very nice mycelium growth. 4 of the 12 had black mold so i separated them but the remaining 8 are all good, i think i may have got them too hot in the pressure cooker. What i am wondering about it, i am planning a large outdoor crop as i have the space and discreet area to grow such a thing, but what i was wondering is, do i need to go through the whole making syringes, making jars, etc etc, if i already have a crop outside? Or can i just turn over the substrate(i plan to use manure and straw) and bury a few mature shroom caps? Id don't want to make syringes until i have to , so i can grow inside(i live in MI). Another thing i was wondering about is how long should i let my mushrooms grow? Ive tripped 3 times so i have a "basic" idea as to how big they should be, but should i let them reach maturity and drop spores? Or should i pick the majority beforehand and leave a few to drop spores? I plan on casing, so I'm hoping for a large crop, i actually had a few spores left in the syringe so i filled it back up with tap water, filled a hole outside with substrate(verm and rice flour) and watered and inoculated it with the refilled syringe and i have mycelium growth without contams!! SO that also makes me wonder, if i grow outdoor do i need to sterilize/pasteurize the substrate or can i just soak it to moisturize it? Lastly, whats should i do with the contaminated jars? Should i just give up on them? Or should i set up a row plot separate from the good substrate and see what happens? The majority of the growth in the jars is from the shrooms only a little is mold from the contaminated jars. The only thing that concerns me is will the mold affect the mushrooms if they do grow from the few jars of contaminated substrate? Sorry for all the questions and i hope it all makes sense, but all of my jars are about half colonized now so i wanna get everything "understood" before it gets down to it. Thanks alot for any help to any of my questions that you can provide.

P.S. Is there anything else i can do to increase the potency of my mushrooms, i had read in the grow guides that just using manure/compost makes a big difference, and i am already planning on that, but i just want to know if there is anything i have overlooked as far as that goes, Ive only had a level 2-3 experience thus far so I'm looking for a bit stronger one from my own mushrooms, thanks again.


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Offlinedroptopsunfire03
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Registered: 08/04/05
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: droptopsunfire03]
    #4493455 - 08/04/05 02:49 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

One more thing i was thinking about, i hadnt seen anything about it, but other than the potential smell, would i be feasible to grow mushroms indorr with maunre/compost? Just using the same tecnique as outdoor(layering hay,colonized subtstrate and compost) and just putting it in a sterilized storage tub like the large rubbermaid ones? I want to grow alot indoor when winter comes and it seems indorr or out compost if the best thing to use, so i figured itd be a good idea, what do you guys think?


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: droptopsunfire03]
    #4493979 - 08/04/05 07:58 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

tequila spike?


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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Offlinedeficitism
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Registered: 06/10/05
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #4493990 - 08/04/05 08:10 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Check this out: http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/23355

There are huge debates about when to pick your veggies for maximum potentcy. I don't want to see another one so do what you want with it:

1. Some people pick right before the veil breaks
2. Some people pick right after the veil breaks
3. Some people wait until full maturity (caps fully open and tinting black)

Personally I do NUMBER 2  :rofl2: but experiment with all three and you tell us how you feel.

And no you CAN'T just bury a cap. Shrooms are not seeds.


--------------------
"Someday after mastering the winds, waves, tides and gravity, we shall harness the energies of love, and then, for the second time in the history of the world, man will discover fire." -Teilhard de Chardin


Edited by deficitism (08/04/05 08:13 AM)


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Offlinethenewguy05
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: deficitism]
    #4494006 - 08/04/05 08:29 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

first of all it sounds like you are kind of lazy. if you want to have a crop you have to make syringes, it just has to be done. you have said you are already into growing pf cake, well my outdoor experience is currently growing and the best thing i could recamend is to grow a bunch of cakes... crumble into a freezer bag and lay down a thin flat layer of horse poo. add the crumbled cakes to the layer of poo and cover with another thin layer of poo to cover the myc. personally i've been experimenting with no pasteurization and it has been working wonders. picking is all about preference, some people like to let them open up for weight and others pick b4 the veil breaks to keep spores from blowing all over.


Edited by thenewguy05 (08/04/05 08:46 AM)


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Offlinedeficitism
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: thenewguy05]
    #4494015 - 08/04/05 08:36 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

thenewguy05 said:
crumble into a freezer bag and lay down a thin flat layer of horse poo. add the crumbled cakes to the layer of poo and cover with another thin layer of pooto cover the myc. personally i've been experimenting with no pasteurization and it has been working wonders.



Beautiful simple outdoor tek for any newbie that wants to grow outdoors.  :thumbup:


--------------------
"Someday after mastering the winds, waves, tides and gravity, we shall harness the energies of love, and then, for the second time in the history of the world, man will discover fire." -Teilhard de Chardin


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Offlinedroptopsunfire03
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: deficitism]
    #4494227 - 08/04/05 11:01 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Yeah, its said tequila spikes on the syringe. Im not trying to be lazy, i mean i sat up for 4hours to sterilize these 12 jars:). I just wanted to try and speed things up. So i will always need to make syringes then if i make new pathces? I dont mind, i just figured the mushrooms would drop spores and grow back on their own and i wouldnt need to make new cakes once the patch is done flushing. SO the mushrooms will basically grow from the poo/straw until the nutrients are depleted? What about at the end of the year, will the mushrooms drop spores, it seems that if i left tem until the veil begins to tear then they would, should i make some new cakes and inoculate them etc etc and get it all set up as i would normally only it wont grow until after the winter? Thanks for verifying the fact that i didnt think you need to pasteurize the substrate, did you soak it (the poo) at all? Thanks again guys.

P.S. I have my mushrooms in my room at the moment(we have no ac so its warm all the time) but i do have a small a/c i have on at night, the jars are in a box on top of a shelf and they are insulated with newspaper so i was hoping they would see too much of a temp diff, but is it possible that they might try to start pinngin b4 i move them outside from the temp drop from the a/c?


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OfflineHeReTiC1322
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: droptopsunfire03]
    #4494372 - 08/04/05 12:03 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

P.S. I have my mushrooms in my room at the moment(we have no ac so its warm all the time) but i do have a small a/c i have on at night, the jars are in a box on top of a shelf and they are insulated with newspaper so i was hoping they would see too much of a temp diff, but is it possible that they might try to start pinngin b4 i move them outside from the temp drop from the a/c?




i pretty much had the same situation colonizing my jars...i wouldnt worry about the temp dropfrom your a/c unless its like a 25 degree drop or somethin.


--------------------
"Just let the lovin' take a hold!"


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: droptopsunfire03]
    #4494376 - 08/04/05 12:04 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Wow 4 whole hours? LOL.. You dont need to make syringes, but there are no easier ways around it, any other method would require just as much time. How many hours did you spend taking care of those plants? I bet it was more then 4 hours :wink: You can just add more poo/straw to the top of the pile, and it will spread into the new nutes and give you new flushes, but to start a new patch somewhere, you need to do jars. For that you need syringes. You can easily take a single spore print and turn that into 10 nice syringes, then turn that 100cc's of spore water, into 10,000 cc's of LC, as you need it. Just take your 10 syringes and store them somewhere, then when you need to make jars, 2 weeks in advance, shoot 1cc of the spores into a 100cc liquid culture and let it colonize. Then create 10 liquid culture syringes from that by sucking up all the liquid. Then you have 10 syringes that will last you the next 3-6 months in the fridge and will give you quicker growth then spores will. When you start to run low, or your getting to the end of that 3-6 months, make a new culture from your spores. Then your using 1 cc every 3-6 months of spore solution and that will be enough for 100 jars in that same time period. So that single print you first took, can last you 300-600 months (Thats 25-50 years, realistically they'll only last you the next 10-20 years most likly) or 30,000-60,000 jars, whichever comes first.

But you still need to make syringes and do glove box work, and it may take some attempts to get one sterile one, and theres no easy way out of it. It may also require agar work and isolation to get the liquid cultures, if you end up with dirty prints as often happens with outdoors.

For pasteurization, with horse poo it probably wont be needed outdoors, but if you dont pasteurize you dont know what you get. Outdoors though, its all the same. You cant put grains out there without sterilizing though, and other poos also may not work (including anything store bought). Just soak the horse poo in water and break it up, maybe add some verm (10-30%), then bring it out to the hole, dump it in, dump in your fully colonized grain spawn, mix well.

You dont let the mushrooms get any big, you pick them when they're ready to pick, they'll be 1-20 inches tall, when the cap opens and the veil tears, its time to harvest. If your printing the cap, try to get it right before the viel starts to tear, then you can cut off the cap, put in a jar to print, and then tear off the viel yourself, carefully, when your not outside, to try and get a clean print.

If the jars are in the light, with the temp drop they'll likly start pinning. Even if stuff starts to pin it wont be a problem, just harvest any mushrooms or pins when you mix it up.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflinejBEArWAuKeE
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Registered: 07/27/05
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4495058 - 08/04/05 02:37 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Can't you skip the syringes and make LCs by shaking up a small piece of colonized substrate in a jar w/ some broken glass and liquid?


--------------------
"This is absolutely the most exciting time we could have possibly hoped to be alive, and things are just starting." --Dreamer


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: jBEArWAuKeE]
    #4495884 - 08/04/05 06:05 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Yes, but only one generation..you cant then use a jar that you shoot it up with and do it again..maybe once more, but after that youll experience degeneration. As I was talking about above, the mycelium is "one", so the original spores that colonized the jar can be used, but then that mycelium has to work to colonize the culture, then a whole new batch of jars, and then your still working with the same mycelium. There are many tecniques such as this one, and you can use different combos of teks to keep you going, but all of them require work, and sterile work, and still so often you need to start over.

You can also take a tissue sample, when you harvest the mushrooms split open one inside in a glovebox, ad either use a needle to jab into it (getting only the inside stem) or use a scalpel to cut a small bit away, and put that into a liquid culture, or on agar. Thats called cloning, and you can do that to get a clone of the mycelium, because all mushrooms are, is mycelium, and more growth of that same original start. You cant keep doing that over and over again either, its just like taking a peice of the substrate, so every other generation you must start fresh from spores. The benefit this has over taking a chunk of the substrate is you see that that particular mycelium fruits, and fruits well (since it comes FROM a "fruit")..if you take a chunk from the jar before growing mushrooms from it you have no idea how many substrains youll getin the chunk (many spores in the jar) and how well they'll fruit. But it does work, almost just as well.

You need to utilize all these things to your needs, but again all of them take work and time and sterility..and syringes :smile:


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflinePerfectlyDefectd
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4495978 - 08/04/05 06:40 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

would u say that growing indoors or growing outdoors gives better yeilds? i was set on growing indoors until i saw people talkin about growing outdoors.. and what kind of climate is required for outdoors??


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OfflineBoringNickName
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: PerfectlyDefectd]
    #4495999 - 08/04/05 06:46 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Remember that you can only go a generation or two with cloning, but you can multiply that clone to knock up many many jars.


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Offlinedroptopsunfire03
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: BoringNickName]
    #4496855 - 08/04/05 10:26 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

scatmanrav: Thanks alot that has been very helpful, but i must reiterate the fact that i am NOT looking for an "easier" way, only a faster way, and it seems as you said liquid cultures will be the way to go, ill have to look into that more once it gets a little closer to harvest time. I had read that the first flush typically is only a few mushrooms(less than 10) is that so or did i overlook something? Or is that more for an indoor grow, and not an outdoor? I am looking to grow a substantial amount of mushrroms before it gets too cold(about 1-2 months or so) so i plan to have plenty to experiment with as far as printing and making syringes goes. Also thanks for asnwering my question on the need for syringes outdoor, i relaize for a new patch you need to make syringes, but when do they drop spores? right about harvest time, as you said when the veil begins to tear? As of right now they are reciving light only when i open the box they are in to check on the jars, so im assuming they need some light to begin pinning so it seems im ok there, but what about my 4 contaminated jars? One of the 4 is mostly molded so that one seems to be hopeless, but what of the others? Can i still use them,or does the mold do more to the mycelium than just prevent it from growing. I was considering making an additional plot with the contaminated jars, but should i even waste my time? I picked up 80lbs of composted manure today, so im just about ready to go:) Thanks again for your help, im almost out of questions i think:)


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Offlinedroptopsunfire03
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: droptopsunfire03]
    #4496867 - 08/04/05 10:29 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

O about the question of indoor/outdoor, from what ive read outdoor is the way to go to avoid contams, and to increase yeilds, not to mention it is a bit cleaner to use comost/maure out there, which from what i read increases yield size and potentcy. Conditions rom what i understand the same you would need indoor, only less maintanence is needed. Do like i am, buy some bags of composted manure(a little over $1 for 40lbs) and find a nice shady but not too shady spot in the woods and set it up:)


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: droptopsunfire03]
    #4497197 - 08/05/05 12:06 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Outdoors does NOT increase yeilds. We can do much better then nature.



It does have its benefits, and you can get a lot of shrooms outdoors, more then enough for most people, but when your talking amount of substrate, yield will be better inside where you can give it perfect conditions. There are some VERY optimal outdoor climates however that can impress the hell out of me..you have no control over it though. Outdoors does have its perks.

Sorry, I thought you were trying to find an easier way, with long single paragraph posts, and as many peoples posts as I read a day, I sometimes get mixed up and forget whos talking about what and whos looking for what and whos who :smile: As long as your not trying to get out of work, cloning and liquid cultures are the way to go. Grain to grain transfers are a big one for me. You can stretch out that print into 10 spore syringes into 1,000 myc syringes, even more because every jar you shoot up with 1 cc of liquid myc, can be split into a dozen other jars, you just take a spoonfull of grains and spoon into sterilized grain jars (in a glovebox or something like that).

You can attempt to start a plot with the contamed jars, nature has a way of dealing with those things, just try not to mix in the moldy parts, may work, may not. If theres to much mold, I wouldnt bother. And if its black mold, I wouldnt ever even open the jar, just toss in the trash..that stuffs not good I hear, I've had it and its never caused me huge problems, but I toss it as soon as I see it, wouldnt eat anything from it. Green mold is ok though as long as it goes away.

And they drop spores right after the viel breaks, as I said though you can harvest before the veil tears, and tear it yourself, the cap will continue to live and open up and drop the spores after sitting for about 24 hours.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinedroptopsunfire03
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Registered: 08/04/05
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4498599 - 08/05/05 03:53 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

thanks again, i figured i may have been wrong about the outdoor:) but for we newbs outdoor i feel is the way to go. The few jars that have mold(4 out of 12) only one has black mold, but it has colonized the entire jar in about 3 days afer noicing it, so i will toss that one, but the others are mainly the mycelium with onlyminor molding, so i think i can get away with cutting the molded part off, thanks for reassuring me. But for you specifcally scatmanrav what substrate are you using indoor if you dont mind my asking as i will need to move indoor when winter comes anyway, and what would you suggest using for the LC the onlything in the faq and guidesd that i found said to use malt flour, but do you think i can use sterilized brown rice flourn in the same ratio as the malt flour to make the LC? Hope that makes sense, im glad these boards have friendly knowledgeable folk:)


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: droptopsunfire03]
    #4498619 - 08/05/05 03:58 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

No, the LC you saw said "malt extract" and you cant use a flour. I use Karo light corn syrup, found at the grocery store. 4ml to 96ml water (use a syringe to measure, or anything, a ml is a cc) There are other things you can use though, malt extract or potatoe dextrose ect. I use whole grains, bird seed basically, spawned to pasteurized horse manure. Easy stuff.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinedroptopsunfire03
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Registered: 08/04/05
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4499405 - 08/05/05 12:29 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Would you prefer bidseed over BRF? I used the brf only because its my first time and it seemed the easiest and cheapest but im defenitely looking for better ways to do it:) Yeah it was malt extract i was mistaken, never thought about corn syrup, makes snese tho, thnx man i think that about do ti for questions now:)


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Few newb questions, im sure easy answer for u pros;) [Re: droptopsunfire03]
    #4499504 - 08/05/05 01:00 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

You can use BRF just fine, birdseed is just much cheaper, easier to prepare, and you get more of it in a quicker time. I dont know how well it would work outdoors, I hear the birds tend to pick apart the garden. I dont know that brown rice would make it much different but not sure..


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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