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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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dust
    #4491869 - 08/03/05 10:45 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Somewhere in 70's, there was this living block being built somewhere in my town, and such an action was a great target for students who wanted to find an easy temorary job. Of course the job was digging.

The digging place was an old 19th century war graveyard, so they found bones all over the place, and kept some skulls, or sold them etc.

it made me think..
all those skulls had entire lifetimes, had friends, loved, feared, had family, people used to cry for them, they used to remember them etc.
And now, they are bones in some long forgotten graves. all those who cried for them are also now gone, and those who remembered them are also gone, se they were erased from history as if they never existed. Sure there is some name on some paper, but that name has long turned into just a bunch of letters and carries no real meaning because nobody can say anything about that name.

All of us will one day dissapear without a trace, no memories, no feelings, nothing will contain us anymore, and everything that we have said in our lives, thought,believed, did will make no difference because it might as well never happened.

So...

What difference does it make if we know, or do not know, what truth is, how we act, how much we love, or hate, or how much evil we do, what standards of morality we follow, or how enlightened we are or not. We are only a leaf that falls and decomposes. Our thoughts in objective reality have no real meaning, they are electrical signals that are no more meaningfull than lightning.

A day will come when we will never have existed in the first place because neither we, nor anybody else is aware that we did.

We are natural phenomenon like a wind, what we think or do does not matter, we will dissapear and change into something else.

And in this giant system of change, we have created this thought system that makes us think one thing is preferable over another, and that something "should be", and other things "should not be".

Things just come and go, and they are what they are. A murdered is burried together with his victim and all the emotions that he cause, everything dissapears, and leaves this: the murder never took place, and it was not immoral, nor was it moral, it was, and never was, makes no difference.

All that will be left of me is a plastic bag of bones that graveyard keepers are not even sure anymore to whom it did belong.
So it really doesn't matter what I do, whom I hurt, what I destroy, and what I think.

In the big picture, It seems I do not exist at all, I am a wind in nature.

It brings a sense of relief in a way.

what do you think of all of this?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: dust [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4494083 - 08/04/05 09:35 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

So...

What difference does it make if we know, or do not know, what truth is, how we act, how much we love, or hate, or how much evil we do, what standards of morality we follow, or how enlightened we are or not. We are only a leaf that falls and decomposes. Our thoughts in objective reality have no real meaning, they are electrical signals that are no more meaningfull than lightning.
_________________________________________________________
Good questions. :laugh:
What does it matter? We don't know. That's why we ask. But to say someting has no meaning is subjective. We don't know if this has meaning. For some this is a relief, for others torture. :grin:

Hey who says lightning has no meaning?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: dust [Re: Icelander]
    #4494285 - 08/04/05 11:25 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

well all of this falls down the toilet in case there is some cosmic intelligence or something like that.

But to an atheist, this is how it is.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: dust [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4494310 - 08/04/05 11:39 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Nothing wrong with being an atheist.  :thumbup: :smile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: dust [Re: Icelander]
    #4494379 - 08/04/05 12:06 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

[argh, to ol'woodie:]
Just send a message in a bottle :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: dust [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4494386 - 08/04/05 12:09 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Nothing wrong with being an atheist.  :thumbup: :smile:




There is nothing wrong with deluding oneself with a defintion of an aspect of reality when there is nothing by which one can base such a definition, that is, no observation? :confused: :lol:

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
A day will come when we will never have existed in the first place because neither we, nor anybody else is aware that we did.




And, yet, the entire face of existance will have changed simply because we were an aspect of that existance. We experienced reality as a variable within reality, we interacted with other aspects of reality, and we learned from reality, just as reality learned from us. Experience, interaction, change.

Are we in need of some sort of universal verification, justification, or recognization in order to experience and live our life (see, perhaps, Swami's thread on truth)? Does the fact that we don't have some "other force" affirming our experience negate the importance of our experience and the nature of it? Of course not. To seek awareness of oneself from the external world and to seek a state of permanence serves no benefit - it's impossible and brings forth no real return, no truth. I personally think, though, that keeping in mind the manner in which we are interacting with reality and how this will propagate the future reality is key and essential. :grin:

It's certainly an important realization, the one that you have described. :thumbup: :laugh: It serves as a quite necessary backdrop of perspective, for the perhaps more profound realization that, while we might someday completely not exist, we still do exist right now. :grin: That is, the void is the necessary space within which existance can be, and is.

Keeping all of this in mind, in fact, brings more meaning, more potency, more awareness and more dyanmic experience to that of one's present state of existance in life. :mushroom2:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: dust [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4494395 - 08/04/05 12:14 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

All of us will one day dissapear without a trace, no memories, no feelings, nothing will contain us anymore, and everything that we have said in our lives, thought,believed, did will make no difference because it might as well never happened.

Which is why the Shroomery Archives MUST be preserved for all time!  :smile:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: dust [Re: Icelander]
    #4495402 - 08/04/05 03:56 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Nothing wrong with being an atheist.  :thumbup: :smile:





this thread Is not against atheism, on the contrary, it was written from an atheistic point of view


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: dust [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4495412 - 08/04/05 03:58 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I know. I was just saying I have some of the same views. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: dust [Re: Swami]
    #4495426 - 08/04/05 04:02 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
All of us will one day dissapear without a trace, no memories, no feelings, nothing will contain us anymore, and everything that we have said in our lives, thought,believed, did will make no difference because it might as well never happened.

Which is why the Shroomery Archives MUST be preserved for all time!  :smile:




well, I think that these archives will one day exist as a faint magnetic signal on a piece of metal in some huge dumping place, and will slowly fade into non-existence as the magnetism decharges paralel with the decay of our brains that made that information.

all of this motion and happening is actual action only in a relative sense, because all those actions together with the medium of action sink into non-existence.
It's like a bunch of bugs fighting for hierarchy in a jar that is sinking under watter.

The only thing we can do is accept this a natural way of things, which will untimatley make it a pleasant thought.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: dust [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4495466 - 08/04/05 04:11 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

This kind of reminds me of Dreaming.  :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: dust [Re: Icelander]
    #4495476 - 08/04/05 04:14 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

:grin: yea, we all try out best in dreams to do things, like escape danger, acomplish things, but in the end we wake up, and non of it matters, because it was just a dream. In a year, we will not even remember that dream.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: dust [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4495964 - 08/04/05 06:34 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

So then you should start to wake up to real life...


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: dust [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4495992 - 08/04/05 06:44 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
:grin: yea, we all try out best in dreams to do things, like escape danger, acomplish things, but in the end we wake up, and non of it matters, because it was just a dream. In a year, we will not even remember that dream.




So maybe what you and I call reality is just another kind or level of dreaming.  There may be some other reality behind that. Just as when dreaming you may believe you are a nomad in a duck suit, you awaken you find Oldwoodspector in his "real" beard. A dream within a dream, maybe? :confused: :grin: :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: dust [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4496077 - 08/04/05 07:19 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
So then you should start to wake up to real life...




perhapse awareness is just another illusion as common life


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: dust [Re: Icelander]
    #4496086 - 08/04/05 07:23 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
:grin: yea, we all try out best in dreams to do things, like escape danger, acomplish things, but in the end we wake up, and non of it matters, because it was just a dream. In a year, we will not even remember that dream.




So maybe what you and I call reality is just another kind or level of dreaming.  There may be some other reality behind that. Just as when dreaming you may believe you are a nomad in a duck suit, you awaken you find Oldwoodspector in his "real" beard. A dream within a dream, maybe? :confused: :grin: :wink:




of course, the self must believe that if this reality does not mean anything, then there must be another that does. I tis the nature of self that attributes meaning to self, isn't it?
But maybe meaning is an illusion in itself


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinenightkrawler
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Re: dust [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4496109 - 08/04/05 07:35 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

It's because of this idea that a lot of people try to do something significant that they want to be remembered by. Jesus died 2000 years ago and is still remembered. Da Vinci is still remembered, Socrates, Napolean, Van Gogh, I could go on and on. Some people have a goal in life they want to complete, something that would make them go down in history. Once you're dead your money, power, everything you had is gone. You're just a memory.

If you could do something significant, your name will be in history books. People will remember you. Discover something. Invent something. Take over the world...hell, take over a country. Be an actor in a big movie(that may or may not make you remembered, depends how dated current movies become. No one besides film students are watching 100 year old movies anymore. Movies today are a lot more advanced though, and a movie like Goodfellas, or Scarface could go down in history)

That's a motive for a lot of killers I guess too. Hitler probably won't be forgotten. Jack The Ripper. Charles Manson...maybe...maybe not. Ed Gein? Probably not, since there's so many movies based off of him. I know there's some movie out there...or maybe it's real life, I don't remember...but there was this guy who killed a bunch of people just so he could go down in history.

It doesn't take doing something good to be remembered by. It takes doing something big.


--------------------

Not all who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: dust [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4496157 - 08/04/05 07:57 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
:grin: yea, we all try out best in dreams to do things, like escape danger, acomplish things, but in the end we wake up, and non of it matters, because it was just a dream. In a year, we will not even remember that dream.




So maybe what you and I call reality is just another kind or level of dreaming.  There may be some other reality behind that. Just as when dreaming you may believe you are a nomad in a duck suit, you awaken you find Oldwoodspector in his "real" beard. A dream within a dream, maybe? :confused: :grin: :wink:




of course, the self must believe that if this reality does not mean anything, then there must be another that does. I tis the nature of self that attributes meaning to self, isn't it?
But maybe meaning is an illusion in itself




I am just speculating based on some of my experience. I am perfectly fine if everything is meaningless. That does not detract at all from my living. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: dust [Re: nightkrawler]
    #4496165 - 08/04/05 08:00 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

nightkrawler said:
It's because of this idea that a lot of people try to do something significant that they want to be remembered by. Jesus died 2000 years ago and is still remembered. Da Vinci is still remembered, Socrates, Napolean, Van Gogh, I could go on and on. Some people have a goal in life they want to complete, something that would make them go down in history. Once you're dead your money, power, everything you had is gone. You're just a memory.

If you could do something significant, your name will be in history books. People will remember you. Discover something. Invent something. Take over the world...hell, take over a country. Be an actor in a big movie(that may or may not make you remembered, depends how dated current movies become. No one besides film students are watching 100 year old movies anymore. Movies today are a lot more advanced though, and a movie like Goodfellas, or Scarface could go down in history)

That's a motive for a lot of killers I guess too. Hitler probably won't be forgotten. Jack The Ripper. Charles Manson...maybe...maybe not. Ed Gein? Probably not, since there's so many movies based off of him. I know there's some movie out there...or maybe it's real life, I don't remember...but there was this guy who killed a bunch of people just so he could go down in history.

It doesn't take doing something good to be remembered by. It takes doing something big.




People do not remember any of those people, they are just names, and pictures, and data.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinenightkrawler
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Re: dust [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4496948 - 08/04/05 10:56 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

they don't physically remember them, but there are books and things about them that talk about their personality and who they were. they aren't loved anymore because nobody that's alive has actually known them.


--------------------

Not all who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien


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