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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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humans live forever
    #4491587 - 08/03/05 09:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

..as long as a human being is conscious to know it, it is alive.
The small window of consciousness that a human being experiences in the eternity, is an eternity in itself because you can say that we will "always" live, "always" being ALL the time that we experience.

We will never experience death, because when it comes we won't be there to experience it.
As long as we are there to experience we will live. From the subjective point of view, we are eternal.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: humans live forever [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4491607 - 08/03/05 09:48 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)


The small window of consciousness that a human being experiences in the eternity, is an eternity in itself because you can say that we will "always" live, "always" being ALL the time that we experience.


So... if you say that "all the time we're alive" is the same thing as "always", then we'll "always" be alive. Uh huh. Also, if you say that a banana is an "entire galaxy", every time we eat a banana we're eating an "entire galaxy".

If you change the definition of words, then you can say one thing, and it means another...

"Deep".


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: humans live forever [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4491619 - 08/03/05 09:50 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

The lack of experience is not itself an experience, that is true.

An interesting twist on this, if you believe the Everett Many-Worlds theory of quantum physics, is the idea of quantum immortality.

However, in this universe, we can see others around us only experiencing a finite amount of time, so all we'll ever know is the experiences we have, according to our observations this experience will one day end. Scientifically the observations seem to be recorded in the brain, so after this experience can no longer be maintained by the body and is passed on to a new generation, you no longer exist, making us ignorant to everything else but our experience yet also still mortal.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: humans live forever [Re: Phluck]
    #4491645 - 08/03/05 09:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:

The small window of consciousness that a human being experiences in the eternity, is an eternity in itself because you can say that we will "always" live, "always" being ALL the time that we experience.


So... if you say that "all the time we're alive" is the same thing as "always", then we'll "always" be alive. Uh huh. Also, if you say that a banana is an "entire galaxy", every time we eat a banana we're eating an "entire galaxy".

If you change the definition of words, then you can say one thing, and it means another...

"Deep".





if a banana is all that you see than to you banana is everything


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: humans live forever [Re: Ravus]
    #4491658 - 08/03/05 09:57 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
The lack of experience is not itself an experience, that is true.

An interesting twist on this, if you believe the Everett Many-Worlds theory of quantum physics, is the idea of quantum immortality.

However, in this universe, we can see others around us only experiencing a finite amount of time, so all we'll ever know is the experiences we have, according to our observations this experience will one day end. Scientifically the observations seem to be recorded in the brain, so after this experience can no longer be maintained by the body and is passed on to a new generation, you no longer exist, making us ignorant to everything else but our experience yet also still mortal.





yea we see others go, but we will never really die from the point of view of self. Because in subjective world, things only happen if you experience them, and you can't experience death, because death is lack of experience.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: humans live forever [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4491681 - 08/03/05 10:00 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

What about when you fall into a deep, dreamless sleep? You don't experience the sleep, it's just a lapse in experience, yet you know you just had it when you wake up.

The only difference between that and death, in my opinion, is that we wake up from a dreamless sleep. Death is like falling into this state and never coming out of the experience.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: humans live forever [Re: Ravus]
    #4491701 - 08/03/05 10:05 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

but if you never woke up from your dream, then you never experienced it in the first place.

The only thing that makes you know that you were sleeping is waking up and feeling a hole in consciousness. But your subjective life did not exist in that time. Your consiousness, your subjective life does not follow time, it skips hours of sleep. Your subjective self does not exist in times of sleep, therefore your subjective self never sleeps at all.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: humans live forever [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4491729 - 08/03/05 10:12 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

That's true, chances are you would not know you were dead unless you felt yourself dying. Yet the fact that you can lapse into states where you lack experience, and that it is possible to continue this state without waking up, shows that humans do not live forever. All they'll ever experience is life, but the experience is temporary nonetheless, even if they don't know when it's over.

Just because you don't know the tape's ran out of film, it doesn't mean it's still recording.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: humans live forever [Re: Ravus]
    #4491793 - 08/03/05 10:24 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You are thinking objective here.

I'm saying that to the subjective mind, there is no difference between a lifetime of 70 years and eternity because it can not percieve the difference. And since to him eternity and 70 years is the same, to him 70 years IS eternity.

We all know that we will die, that's not the point. It doesn't make much difference to us because our experience of eternal life would not be any different from a life of 70 years. In both cases you would never get to taste death.

And dieing is not the same as being dead.
Perhapse your consciousness is fading, but that is still being alive. Once it's out, it can not know that it is dead because it doesn't exist anymore. And that which does not exist can not be dear or alive.

The key for making sense of this all is percieving your self as consciousness, or as experience, rather than as an objective organism of flesh. You, the ego, the self, are not your liver, or heart, you are small part of brain that works like a selfdiagnostic system and is aware of itself.

The great thing about this is that our life IS experience, and experience of being alive is one of those experiences that makes life. so when we die, we die because we stop experiencing, and along with all the other experiences, the experience of being alive goes away, which makes us invunrable to death. Death can never harm US, because US is not a part of death at all. Death can never touch ME, because it comes ONLY after I dissapear.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineLittleBen
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Re: humans live forever [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4493828 - 08/04/05 05:04 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

A subjective mind wouldnt be human. You would be saying nonexistance is alive.


--------------------
Gaia, as you awaken, I heal myself. As I awaken, you are healed.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: humans live forever [Re: LittleBen]
    #4494019 - 08/04/05 08:43 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

And what is human other than subjective mind?

When we are speaking, our subjective minds are communicating, all the rest is just hardware. I would be a person even If I were a conscious brain in a jar


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: humans live forever [Re: LittleBen]
    #4494023 - 08/04/05 08:44 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LittleBen said:
A subjective mind wouldnt be human. You would be saying nonexistance is alive.




to the subjective mind, nonexistence never comes, therefore it does not exist to him


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: humans live forever [Re: Phluck]
    #4494539 - 08/04/05 01:02 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

every time we eat a banana we're eating an "entire galaxy"

No wonder I am packing on the pounds. No more bananas for me! :blush:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: humans live forever [Re: Swami]
    #4494605 - 08/04/05 01:16 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Sometimes a banana is just a banana.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: humans live forever [Re: Veritas]
    #4495219 - 08/04/05 03:08 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

well this moment of self, naturally, is alive

the moment of self experiencing death is unique

and then there is no self

so this moment, wait, THIS moment of self... is 'eternal' in the sense it will 'always exist'. of course, our linear perception will not be able to progress 'backwards' through the moments to seemingly 're-experience' it

so yeah, in our usual sense of 'eternity', not quite :cool:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: humans live forever [Re: Swami]
    #4495433 - 08/04/05 04:03 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
every time we eat a banana we're eating an "entire galaxy"

No wonder I am packing on the pounds. No more bananas for me! :blush:




:lol: Bananas and ice-cream made me have 96 kilos right now. Right now I'm on a diet.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: humans live forever [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4495461 - 08/04/05 04:09 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

A high-protein, low-star diet seems to work...  :thumbup:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: humans live forever [Re: Swami]
    #4495472 - 08/04/05 04:12 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know much about proteins, I just don't eat, and when I eat, I eat fish or something like that. That's the simples way


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineGomp
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Re: humans live forever [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4503346 - 08/06/05 10:41 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"We will never experience death, because it experience, you!"
-Unknown.. :P


--------------------


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