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InvisibleSilversoul
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I've decided to write a book
    #4482929 - 08/01/05 11:19 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'm going to call it Why Poverty Exists, and Doesn't Have To. In it, I'm going to do a sociological analysis of the problem of poverty, examine its origins, and propose a solution. I'll address how and where policies such as socialism, the welfare state, neoliberalism, foreign aid and private charity have failed, and why my proposal will succeed. The proposal I bring to the table is for countries to adopt the Georgist model of public revenue, eliminate trade barriers and legal monopolies, end interventionist foreign policy, and uphold human rights. Obviously this will be a major undertaking. Because of the bold claims of this book, I may have to write a couple other books first to build some credentials. But I hope when I'm done that this will be my masterpiece.


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: Silversoul]
    #4482972 - 08/01/05 11:26 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I highly recommend you check out this book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...ks&n=507846


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OfflineBCBudJohn
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: spud]
    #4483284 - 08/02/05 12:34 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

BAM


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Peace
John


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: spud]
    #4483306 - 08/02/05 12:38 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'll definitely check it out. Looks like an interesting read.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: Silversoul]
    #4483315 - 08/02/05 12:40 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Are you going to have any excessively Right-Wing reactionary stances in your book? If so, I'll buy it in a heartbeat!

P.S. I just saw Team America: World Police. Team America Fuck Yeah!


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: Silversoul]
    #4483463 - 08/02/05 01:01 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I would like you to define poverty.

Define poverty.

Define abject poverty.

Define relative poverty.

My wife went to Africa on Safari. They didn't have paved roads. No utilities, indoor plumbing or electricity. Nothing.

The food markets consisted of animal carcasses hanging on hooks in the midday sun. Flies and bugs buzzing around. A table where meat is cut, full of blood. After that meat is sold, another bloody carcass from the hook gets mixed in with the old blood and cut on the same table. No refrigeration, no preservatives, nothing to keep sickness at bay.

That is abject poverty.

I live in a house in a downtown American city, built in 1870. The people who lived in my house were among the richest in the entire city. Now the neighborhood has the highest crime rate in town! My predecessors didn't have indoor plumbing. They shit in a bucket. Somebodies job was to empty and clean that bucket, and they were damn glad to have the work. And today people complain about "Mcjobs", as if working for McDonalds was below any humans station in life. My first job was washing dishes at Pizza Hut and picking food off of people's plates. It was a great job, because it taught me that I wanted something more in life than picking fucking food off of people's plates.

If you go back a hundred or two hundred years, everyone had to shit in a bucket. No indoor plumbing or running water, no electricity, no central air.

Just in the last 100 years have we advanced medicine. 100 years ago, your age had little to do with when you would die. Nowadays, we all like to think that everyone should live to a ripe old age. 100 years ago, a person in their 20's would already have seen a countless number of their peers fall to disease. That is one of the things that kept religion so strong. You bet your ass you would pray to god when everyone was dropping like flies.

Would you rather be the emperor of Rome or a poor person in America? In Rome people could perform a play for you, in America you have a hundred channels of television 24 hours a day. In Rome you could have servants fan you, in America you have central air, the king of all technological advances! In Rome, you could die from an infection from a cut on your hand, in America you could have double bypass surgery. In Rome you would be lucky to see 30 even if you are in the ruling class. Tell me why today's poor have it so bad when they live better than the emperor of Rome? I just saw a fucking special where a flight to Florida was $39. The emperor of Rome couldn't fucking touch that lifestyle. He doesn't have anything on me.

I wouldn't trade my life for the emperor of Rome, or for the millionaires and titans of industry that once lived in my house 140 years ago. You could strip away all my possessions today and I still would take my chance tomorrow. The standard of living has raised for everyone, and a rising tide lifts all boats.

I just read a great book, The Great Train Robbery by Michael Crichton. It is a true story based in 19th century Victorian England. He goes into detail about the living conditions of the poor in the 1850's. Based on those living conditions, we have already eliminated poverty.

The average household living under the poverty level in this country lives in a three bedroom dwelling, has two cars, air conditioning and cable TV. We aren't talking about poverty, but relative poverty. The biggest health problem for today's poor isn't starvation or disease, it is obesity.

You will never do away with relative poverty. Take all my possessions away, and tomorrow I will still bust my ass. Give them to some fat fuck on welfare, and he will spend them. Within months I will dust his fat ass on the economic food chain, and it is all because of sweat, blood and desire.


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Tastes just like chicken


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4483497 - 08/02/05 01:05 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JesusChrist said:

I would like you to define poverty.

Define poverty.

Define abject poverty.

Define relative poverty.



That's exactly what I plan to do in the first chapter. My plan is not just for the United States, in case that's what you're thinking. It is a proposed solution to world poverty. Even when applied to places like the US, which only has "relative poverty," my plan would maximize social mobility and standard of living.

Quote:

You will never do away with relative poverty. Take all my possessions away, and tomorrow I will still bust my ass. Give them to some fat fuck on welfare, and he will spend them. Within months I will dust his fat ass on the economic food chain, and it is all because of sweat, blood and desire.



You seem to have my plan confused with that of socialists or welfare liberals. My plan does not involve taking people's hard-earned possessions and redistributing them. It involves maximizing economic opportunities and incentives, while eliminating harmful monopolies and institutions.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: Silversoul]
    #4483725 - 08/02/05 01:57 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

My plan does not involve taking people's hard-earned possessions and redistributing them. It involves maximizing economic opportunities and incentives, while eliminating harmful monopolies and institutions.




What economic opportunities and incentives? And what's a "harmful institution"? How do you plan to stop monopolies? Would it be through government interference with businesses and such?

Out of curiousity.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: Ravus]
    #4483756 - 08/02/05 02:05 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Quote:

My plan does not involve taking people's hard-earned possessions and redistributing them. It involves maximizing economic opportunities and incentives, while eliminating harmful monopolies and institutions.




What economic opportunities and incentives? And what's a "harmful institution"? How do you plan to stop monopolies? Would it be through government interference with businesses and such?

Out of curiousity.



I've pretty much covered this stuff in this thread. When I mention stopping monopolies, it does not involve government interference, but rather stopping state-sponsored privilege.


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OfflineTao
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Registered: 09/19/03
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: Silversoul]
    #4483874 - 08/02/05 02:34 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

How do you intend to "uphold human rights" with a non-interventionist foreign policy and no foreign aid? Just the threat of embargoes?

And I could have sworn I just saw a book with the near-exact same title.


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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OfflineBrahmanandam
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: Silversoul]
    #4483900 - 08/02/05 02:43 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

and for those of us who plan on ditching our computer and living in a cave; can poverty still exist for us?


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Brahmanandam, parama sukadam kevalam gyana murtim. Dwandwa ti tam. Gagana sadri shyam, tatwa-ma-sya dri lak shyam. Ekam nityam, vimalam, achalam. Sarvadhi sakshi bhutam. Bhava ti tam triguna rahitam.
SAT GURUM TAM NA MA MI.

GURU LORD, I BOW TO THEE.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: Tao]
    #4484524 - 08/02/05 09:33 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tao said:
How do you intend to "uphold human rights" with a non-interventionist foreign policy and no foreign aid? Just the threat of embargoes?



Again, this book isn't just directed at America. I am simply stating how countries can alleviate poverty. However, I think that the World Bank and IMF, although they may currently have some harmful policies, are also in the best position to do the most good, as they are advising the policy decisions of so many third-world countries. Also, when I talk about upholding human rights, I'm not just talking about the third world here. I'm also talking about human rights violations at home, such as the war on drugs.

Quote:

And I could have sworn I just saw a book with the near-exact same title.



Is it called "The End of Poverty," by Jeffrey D. Sachs? I just picked up that book yesterday. I'm going to be arguing against his conclusion that eliminating poverty requires that we increase foreign aid.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: Silversoul]
    #4484580 - 08/02/05 10:07 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

sounds interesting, to say the least. i'd be more than happy to proof-read/give feedback along the way!


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: Silversoul]
    #4484699 - 08/02/05 10:52 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

What do you think of the notion that no tool (i.e economic / political system) can succeed (i.e end poverty / approximate equality) unless those who administer said tool really want to achieve these goals? In other words, however good your system is, if those who control it are greedy fucks who dont give a damn about people in poverty then the system is doomed to failure as those in power will merely find a way to subvert the system to their own desires.


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Always Smi2le


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: GazzBut]
    #4484705 - 08/02/05 10:55 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
What do you think of the notion that no tool (i.e economic / political system) can succeed (i.e end poverty / approximate equality) unless those who administer said tool really want to achieve these goals? In other words, however good your system is, if those who control it are greedy fucks who dont give a damn about people in poverty then the system is doomed to failure as those in power will merely find a way to subvert the system to their own desires.



Governments will certainly fight progress if there's nothing in it for them, but if the people demand it, those in power will change their tune soon enough. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: Silversoul]
    #4484757 - 08/02/05 11:18 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The point is even if the people are successful in their demands for a change in the system unless those who are in control truly want to put an end to poverty above achieving more selfish aims then ANY economic system is doomed to failure. Or do you think your system can somehow inherently root out those greedy types, who by their very nature, gravitate towards positions of power?


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Always Smi2le


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: GazzBut]
    #4484767 - 08/02/05 11:23 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
The point is even if the people are successful in their demands for a change in the system unless those who are in control truly want to put an end to poverty above achieving more selfish aims then ANY economic system is doomed to failure. Or do you think your system can somehow inherently root out those greedy types, who by their very nature, gravitate towards positions of power?



Georgism, once implemented as a policy for public revenue, will inherently lead towards the eradication of poverty. The whole point of this book is that eliminating poverty doesn't require everyone to be generous and selfless. Rather, Georgism is a system that benefits everyone, not just the poor. It allows people to pursue their self-interest in a productive way which doesn't harm others.


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: Silversoul]
    #4484792 - 08/02/05 11:35 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I am quite sympathetic to the Georgist model and in my opinion it is the most just of any yet proposed. However, GazzBut is right to worry about the administration of power. Somebody has to run things. How to keep those who lust for power from holding power and using it to gain more power is a dilemma effecting ALL political systems that I would like to see addressed more rigorously. Any suggestions that you could include towards this end would be helpful.


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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InvisibleArp
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: spud]
    #4484802 - 08/02/05 11:39 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

While your at it, I would recommend this book aswell :thumbup:


Edited by Arp (08/02/05 12:13 PM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: I've decided to write a book [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4484805 - 08/02/05 11:40 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
I am quite sympathetic to the Georgist model and in my opinion it is the most just of any yet proposed. However, GazzBut is right to worry about the administration of power. Somebody has to run things. How to keep those who lust for power from holding power and using it to gain more power is a dilemma effecting ALL political systems that I would like to see addressed more rigorously. Any suggestions that you could include towards this end would be helpful.



Duly noted. I plan to devote a portion of the last chapter to this problem.


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