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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3986716 - 03/30/05 04:03 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yea. I agree. Those books give you principles not rules. I know alot of guys who went looking for Don Jaun in the 70s. Even though
Don Jaun says that only crazy people go looking to become a sorcerer.

Don Jaun says you don't toy with these plants. Just because a fool chooses to pick and choose what he will listen to, does not detract one bit from the books themselves.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Icelander]
    #3986832 - 03/30/05 04:28 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I theorize that much of the psychotropic plant use was a hook to interest counter-culture readers. The later books de-emphasized them completely.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3989522 - 03/30/05 06:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You could be right. That would make sense if the goal was to influence rather than just to become famous and make a buck.

Personally I believe the former.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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I think I like green eggs and ham, I do, I do like them, Sam I am. [Re: Swami]
    #3989637 - 03/30/05 07:13 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I have to admit I have read dr.seuss more times than carlos casteneda, but, dr.seuss painted and mumbo jumboed his jolly visions to paper and published them for our entertainment and betterment; and casteneda took us on a ride to indiginous traditional access methods, and through his own mysterious psyche.

when you finally get to "the other side" the dr. seuss world may emerge as a de-facto reality.

this could be argued, few besides seuss have so effectively brought back any significant souvenirs - usually the only souvenir is one's self, and one's story.

there is plenty of magic here, but you need to be open to that, entheogen may help.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Icelander]
    #3990709 - 03/30/05 11:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

That was what I was implying. It was a good way to reach many young people who would never have read a book about the benefit of taking responsibility for one's self. Entheogens are traditionally used in the training of a shaman, but their use IS NOT shamanism by itself. Not that Castaneda's books were howto shamanism books...they addressed a wider field than healing.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4447594 - 07/25/05 02:28 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I found Castaneda amazingly insightful. I've read all of his books, and I especially like "The Eagle's Gift." I liked the idea that one has to live impeccably like a warrior in order to have awareness against the eagle which devours us.

I always loved the Thunderbird symbol when I was a kid and felt it had power. My father gave me a thunderbird key chain when I was really young and the feeling of it used to give me a sense of power and wishfulness. I used to keep it like a talisman.


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...or something







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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: eve69]
    #4447691 - 07/25/05 02:52 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

In the second ring of power, there is a conversation where Don Juan tells Carlos that it is impossible to become a man of knowledge or a warrior with entheogens alone, and goes as far to say you dont need them at all. Carlos gets angry and asks why he had to take all that shit, and Don Juan says he had to jostle and shock him out of his reality and pretty much de-americanize him.


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OfflineLittleBen
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4447899 - 07/25/05 03:36 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Huehuecoyotl hit it on the head with his first two posts.

Second ring of power meant the most to me. The nagul and tonal was it? Thinking about different planes in my mind taught me how to meditate. I dont know about 'Seeing' but learning to be aware of energy all around you is definitely aided by these books.


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Gaia, as you awaken, I heal myself. As I awaken, you are healed.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: LittleBen]
    #4448088 - 07/25/05 04:23 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

The first 4 were the ones I got into. I read them 21 times from 1972 until now. They still are meaningfull and ring true. I agree that Hue nailed it. He understands what these books are about. :thumbup: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Icelander]
    #4450320 - 07/25/05 08:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i have red A Yaqui Way of Knowledge and Tales of Power. I'm halfway through A Seperate Reality.. I only read a few chapters every couple of months because I find the content to be pretty mind boggling.

i wouldnt want to guess what it is all about, but definately entertaining and interesting reads. i love it whenever don Juan or don Genaro go off on their crazy acrobatic tangents.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Grav]
    #4450437 - 07/25/05 09:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

If you read them in order they make much more sense. An alternate is to read Journey to Ixtlan first. Either option will make your understanding of the books more clear. I have read most of them 2 times and Ixtlan 5 times. Exerytime I have read them I learned something I missed before.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4450698 - 07/25/05 10:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I have foudn that the teachings of Don Juan arent even needed to read. The only really interesting thing is the part of the back of the book which goes into detail the preperation of the certain drugs...


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4451768 - 07/26/05 02:08 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"I have foudn that the teachings of Don Juan arent even needed to read. The only really interesting thing is the part of the back of the book which goes into detail the preperation of the certain drugs..."

The drug preparations in the book are bogus. If you use them as drug manuals you will end up in trouble. Everybody knows you can't smoke mushrooms...and playing with Datura in any form is bad news. The books are about philosophy. The drug issue was a hook to get young "hip" readers. If one has no interest in Castaneda one does not have to look at the book at all. If one is interested it is good to start with book one and go cover to cover then move to the next, otherwise don't bother.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineMJF
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4453685 - 07/26/05 09:40 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"Everybody knows you can't smoke mushrooms..."

I just started reading A Separate Reality a few days ago and although don Juan calls it "little smoke" and makes a mixture that he smokes...in the preface of the book it says how the fine mushroom poweder does not burn and is digested. i should probably find exactly what it says but i'm too lazy right now.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: MJF]
    #4454389 - 07/26/05 02:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

There is no historical precedence for it. If you try inhalation/ingestion you will burn yourself, there is no way to ingest a sufficient quantity of mushrooms with this method. Gordon Wasson noted that there is no history of native use based on this method. His descriptiions of drug experiences were also based in fantasy. I am not saying these books have no value, but you got to look deeper than their attempt at "hipness".


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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