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InvisibleArp
roving mycophagist
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Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
Re: God Bless America [Re: trick]
    #4461378 - 07/27/05 07:23 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

This entire mass of common subjects, even the one we are discussing now, is apart of the 21st century "manifest destiny" that is meant to steer the population away from the real picture.



Tell me about the real picture :tongue:

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: God Bless America [Re: Arp]
    #4461399 - 07/27/05 07:28 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Arp said:
Are you saying that being able to accommodate great wealth is the road to happiness?



It's quite simple, really: greater wealth = more buying power = more options = higher standard of living

Quote:

If you are happy with your life the way it is, then why would you want to change it?



What does that have to do with anything here?

Quote:

People in poverty arent generally very happy about it.



No shit Sherlock. I'm sure those starving masses in North Korea are pretty pissed about it.

Quote:

I'd say there is enough resources for everybody to be able to live decent happy lives!



True, but not if a bunch of idiotic socialists screw it up for them with their misguided idealism.

Quote:

We don't need them Scrooge McDucks pilling them up in their banks, giving small hand-outs when they feel a rising guilt-trip.



Nor do we need socialists who don't know a lick of economics screwing up the world by imposing their idiotic policies.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God Bless America [Re: Silversoul]
    #4461433 - 07/27/05 07:35 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

:rofl:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: God Bless America [Re: Icelander]
    #4461440 - 07/27/05 07:36 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
:rofl:



:confused:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God Bless America [Re: Silversoul]
    #4461467 - 07/27/05 07:45 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I'd say there is enough resources for everybody to be able to live decent happy lives!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


True, but not if a bunch of idiotic socialists screw it up for them with their misguided idealism.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We don't need them Scrooge McDucks pilling them up in their banks, giving small hand-outs when they feel a rising guilt-trip.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Nor do we need socialists who don't know a lick of economics screwing up the world by imposing their idiotic policies.

--------------------
:hissyfit: Politics. lol


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleArp
roving mycophagist
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Posts: 2,191
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Re: God Bless America [Re: Silversoul]
    #4461481 - 07/27/05 07:49 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

It's quite simple, really: greater wealth = more buying power = more options = higher standard of living

= more waste of resources that could have been used to help those in need.

What does that have to do with anything here?

You see, take my country for instance. Free healthcare, full social
wellfare, very little poverty. I think this model works well.
Could  probably be fine tuned but nobody less fortunate, unable to work is left out.
Oh yeah and we are pretty enviroment friendly too! :thumbup:

I'm sure those starving masses in North Korea are pretty pissed about it.

What does that have to do with anything here? Im speaking about the Scandinavian model.


True, but not if a bunch of idiotic socialists screw it up for them with their misguided idealism.

Depends on how you look at it, your ideal of being able to aquire great wealth sounds pretty screwed up aswell!

Nor do we need socialists who don't know a lick of economics screwing up the world by imposing their idiotic policies.

Only liberals screwing up Sweden at the moment :wink:

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: God Bless America [Re: Arp]
    #4461502 - 07/27/05 07:56 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Arp said:
It's quite simple, really: greater wealth = more buying power = more options = higher standard of living

= more waste of resources that could have been used to help those in need.



= no clue on your part

Quote:

What does that have to do with anything here?

You see, take my country for instance. Free healthcare, full social
wellfare, very little poverty. I think this model works well.
Could  probably be fine tuned but nobody less fortunate, unable to work is left out.
Oh yeah and we are pretty enviroment friendly too! :thumbup:



Yes, some countries have managed to do that.  But it often means that many of those who want to work are unable to do so due to a lack of jobs.  And note that these are still capitalist countries with private enterprise.  They just happen to have large entitlement programs which make the economy sluggish.

Quote:

I'm sure those starving masses in North Korea are pretty pissed about it.

What does that have to do with anything here? Im speaking about the Scandinavian model.



Ah, so you're advocating welfare capitalism.  Well, that changes everything, then.

Quote:

True, but not if a bunch of idiotic socialists screw it up for them with their misguided idealism.

Depends on how you look at it, your ideal of being able to aquire great wealth sounds pretty screwed up aswell!



You have no clue what my ideals are.

Quote:

Nor do we need socialists who don't know a lick of economics screwing up the world by imposing their idiotic policies.

Only liberals screwing up Sweden at the moment :wink:



If I recall correctly, Sweden has the toughest drug laws in Europe.  Guess our countries do have something in common.


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: God Bless America [Re: Arp]
    #4461515 - 07/27/05 08:00 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

consumerism will be the death of our planet. fuck america :dancinghitler:  yay sweden. :cheer:

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: God Bless America [Re: Silversoul]
    #4461546 - 07/27/05 08:10 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Scandinavia is not socialism. It is welfare capitalism. And those countries can only afford to have such massive entitlement programs because they have allowed private enterprise. If you look at real socialism, such as North Korea, the Soviet Union, and various African or Latin American countries, you can see the real bankruptcy of the system.




Scandinavian has a mixed economy, enjoying the best from socialism and capitalism. It would be best defined as 'market socialism'. Soviet Communism, and similar ilk, isn't the only kind of socialism.

"All the Scandinavian nations except Norway rank among the world's 25 most free economies, according to the Heritage Foundation/Wall Street Journal Index of Economic Freedom."
There is also an absence of crime, slums, and poverty... although the suicide rate is rather high.

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InvisibleArp
roving mycophagist
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Re: God Bless America [Re: Silversoul]
    #4461589 - 07/27/05 08:19 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

You have no clue what my ideals are.

You worship satan and sacrifice infants? :rant:

Yes, some countries have managed to do that. But it often means
that many of those who want to work are unable to do so due to a
lack of jobs. And note that these are still capitalist countries
with private enterprise. They just happen to have large entitlement
programs which make the economy sluggish.


You can't live a happy life without a job? OMG!
Yes the private enterprise. People are becoming alienated unable to
identify with their fellow man. Distrust everywhere. I belive this
growing dominator culture is mainly because of outside influences
(crap-culture) and globalisation. Maybe it'll change when people
realize that they wont find happyness in their next purchase and
from the sky get struck by compassion. If they are not TOO fucked up
by then!

Ah, so you're advocating welfare capitalism. Well, that changes everything, then.

Sure a place with social security for every one.

Besides that I don't see why some private enterprise can't co-exist.
Aslong as it doesnt exploit nor pollute the earth and its people.

Wealth-fetishism is pretty perverse :sad:

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: God Bless America [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4461703 - 07/27/05 08:55 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Scandinavian has a mixed economy, enjoying the best from socialism and capitalism.



No, the best aspects of capitalism and socialism are combined in Georgism. Scandinavian-style social democracy may be better than the Soviet style, but it still suffers from high unemployment and lack of incentives.

Quote:

It would be best defined as 'market socialism'.



No, "market socialism" is what China currently has.


--------------------

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: God Bless America [Re: psychomime]
    #4461725 - 07/27/05 09:01 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

"consumerism will be the death of our planet. fuck america yay sweden."

There are no consumers in Sweden??? I would like to know what the fuck they eat....grass??


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: God Bless America [Re: Silversoul]
    #4461731 - 07/27/05 09:04 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

You are arguing against a tide of ignorance here. Ignorance doesn't need an excuse for itself because it knows no better. Good job nevertheless.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleArp
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Posts: 2,191
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Re: God Bless America [Re: Silversoul]
    #4461750 - 07/27/05 09:09 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

but it still suffers from high unemployment and lack of incentives.

Dude. Whats the fuzz about employmency? Is it some American workingclass-hero sentimentality im hearing?

Lack of incentives? We no frikkin donkeys for god sake!

Edited by Arp (07/28/05 01:51 AM)

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: God Bless America [Re: Arp]
    #4464285 - 07/28/05 11:32 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Arp said:
Dude. Whats the fuzz about employmency? Is it some American workingclass-hero sentimentality im hearing?



Without being able to work, people are unable to improve their circumstances.

Quote:

Lack of incentives? We no frikkin donkeys for god sake!



People need to be rewarded for the work they contribute. This is common sense, yet it seems to be beyond the grasp of most socialists.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: God Bless America [Re: Silversoul]
    #4464349 - 07/28/05 11:49 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

People need to be rewarded for the work they contribute. This is common sense, yet it seems to be beyond the grasp of most socialists.

______________________________________________________

Why I am jumping in here I don't know. :crazy: But I think $$ is not the only way to be rewarded for working. But this idea awaits further human evolution. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleArp
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Posts: 2,191
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Re: God Bless America [Re: Icelander]
    #4464403 - 07/28/05 12:08 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

People need to be rewarded for the work they contribute. This is common sense

And you can ONLY be rewarded with wealth? That's so freakin mindless.
If thats your view on humanity then there is no reason keeping on this discussion.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: God Bless America [Re: Arp]
    #4464408 - 07/28/05 12:10 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Arp said:
People need to be rewarded for the work they contribute. This is common sense

And you can ONLY be rewarded with wealth? That's so freakin mindless.



They need to be rewarded with something more than a pat on the back. The reward needs to be proportional to the disutility involved in the effort they've put in.

Quote:

If thats your view on humanity then there is no reason keeping on this discussion.



Likewise


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: God Bless America [Re: Icelander]
    #4464429 - 07/28/05 12:17 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

You are just feeding the pointlessness of this discussion as was I. I quit 2 days ago on this because it is useless to discuss under the circumstances of this thread.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God Bless America [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4464447 - 07/28/05 12:21 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Yes Hue, I know. I couldn't help myself. :tongue: I generally stay away from political issues like I stay out of religious ones. Still I can't help but drop my 2 cents now and again.  I have always had a big mouth,  but I'm sure you know that by now.  :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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