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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: God Bless America [Re: spud]
    #4473658 - 07/30/05 01:28 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

"I don't think you realize the true definition of Patriotism."

I do not associate patriotism with ethnocentrism. I think that all citizens of all countries have a patriotic duty to their country. Dictionary.com has one definition.

"patriotism
n : love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it"

In the light of this I think I understand the notion thoroughly as I have served and sacrificed for my country.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: God Bless America [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4473665 - 07/30/05 01:31 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"I don't think you realize the true definition of Patriotism."

I do not associate patriotism with ethnocentrism. I think that all citizens of all countries have a patriotic duty to their country. Dictionary.com has one definition.

"patriotism
n : love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it"

In the light of this I think I understand the notion thoroughly as I have served and sacrificed for my country.




That is a pretty proper definition actually. Perhaps it should be paired up with this picture:

German patriots gather to hear Hitler Speak at the 1936 Nurnberg rally in Nazi Germany.

Oh, and just because you don't associate it with ethnocentrism doesn't change the fact that it is and has been since the beginning of society.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: God Bless America [Re: spud]
    #4473691 - 07/30/05 01:38 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

"Oh, and just because you don't associate it with ethnocentrism doesn't change the fact that it is has and has been since the beginning of society."

I know this but it does not have to be associated with it. The Germans were wrong in their values unfortunately. There were however many honorable people who served their country while fighting for Germany. Not every German participated in the management of the concentration camps...many did not believe they even existed. Patriotism like any human notion can serve both good and ill. It is always possible to do great wrong in a misguided quest to do good. This is the nature of being human...we are imperfect. This should not, of course, stop us from trying to do good.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: God Bless America [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4473722 - 07/30/05 01:45 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Well, as for America, being a citizen of America my entire life I can testify to seeing very many horrible things from patriotism. The negatives I have encountered far out weight the positives.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: God Bless America [Re: spud]
    #4473748 - 07/30/05 01:56 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

You think one should have disdain for this nation and it's people? If I felt that strongly I would move away. Having a negative attitude towards ones environment physical or political is not healthy to the spirit.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: God Bless America [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4473832 - 07/30/05 02:31 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Not everything is black and white. That is a false dilemma.

Life isn't either having disdain towards your country or having a sense of patriotism.

I lay in between. I love my country to a certain healthy extent.

I will never let the love blind me from it's ugliness.

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OfflineNinjamutantballe
Ninjaballe?
Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 5
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Re: God Bless America [Re: spud]
    #4473863 - 07/30/05 02:44 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Patriotism can be interpreted any way one wishes, but at least for
example in Sweden, the word is only and often used by white-power
racist organizations.

Aren't there better words to be used here? Like solidarity,
cohesion, fraternity, brotherhood? :thumbup:

Patriotism (whatever it means to whomever) has a negative,
militarized, right-wing connotation to it... I would never
call myself a patriot :/ buuuut, everybody else is not me so...  :laugh:


--------------------
Ninja?

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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: God Bless America [Re: spud]
    #4473939 - 07/30/05 03:21 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

spud said:
Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"I don't think you realize the true definition of Patriotism."

I do not associate patriotism with ethnocentrism. I think that all citizens of all countries have a patriotic duty to their country. Dictionary.com has one definition.

"patriotism
n : love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it"

In the light of this I think I understand the notion thoroughly as I have served and sacrificed for my country.




That is a pretty proper definition actually. Perhaps it should be paired up with this picture:

German patriots gather to hear Hitler Speak at the 1936 Nurnberg rally in Nazi Germany.

Oh, and just because you don't associate it with ethnocentrism doesn't change the fact that it is and has been since the beginning of society.




A hitler/nazi/facist picture along with a definition of a term doesn't say anything about the important effects and place it has on a nation.

But contine to stand far away and debate monumental topics with pictures and sarcastic interjects.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: God Bless America [Re: spud]
    #4473948 - 07/30/05 03:24 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

spud said:
Well, as for America, being a citizen of America my entire life I can testify to seeing very many horrible things from patriotism. The negatives I have encountered far out weight the positives.




Since you brought up your personal life spud, your whopping 20-some years on this earth means jackshit to weighing the positives/negatives about patriotism to form an opinion of it.

Have you ever been in a situation where your life and country could possibly be eradicated? Its happened throughout history. People have been conquered and no longer exist. Don't let the peace blind you.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: God Bless America [Re: looner2]
    #4473975 - 07/30/05 03:36 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Quote:

spud said:
Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"I don't think you realize the true definition of Patriotism."

I do not associate patriotism with ethnocentrism. I think that all citizens of all countries have a patriotic duty to their country. Dictionary.com has one definition.

"patriotism
n : love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it"

In the light of this I think I understand the notion thoroughly as I have served and sacrificed for my country.




That is a pretty proper definition actually. Perhaps it should be paired up with this picture:

German patriots gather to hear Hitler Speak at the 1936 Nurnberg rally in Nazi Germany.

Oh, and just because you don't associate it with ethnocentrism doesn't change the fact that it is and has been since the beginning of society.




A hitler/nazi/facist picture along with a definition of a term doesn't say anything about the important effects and place it has on a nation.

But contine to stand far away and debate monumental topics with pictures and sarcastic interjects.




Your comments aren't sarcastic? When you spew that nonsense you are actually being serious?

Oh dear God.

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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: God Bless America [Re: looner2]
    #4473989 - 07/30/05 03:38 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Quote:

spud said:
Well, as for America, being a citizen of America my entire life I can testify to seeing very many horrible things from patriotism. The negatives I have encountered far out weight the positives.




Since you brought up your personal life spud, your whopping 20-some years on this earth means jackshit to weighing the positives/negatives about patriotism to form an opinion of it.

Have you ever been in a situation where your life and country could possibly be eradicated? Its happened throughout history. People have been conquered and no longer exist. Don't let the peace blind you.




Believe it or not, many opinions take less than 20 years to form!

I think I can get a good enough picture of patriotism in 20 years. If you disagree, then all I can do is give you my greatest solace in the lack of a proper education you apparently have.

Just because you cannot form a coherent representation on the reality of locality within 20 years doesn't mean other more competent beings can't.

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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: God Bless America [Re: Arp]
    #4474024 - 07/30/05 03:46 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Arp said:
paradigm gallery

Oh my oh my :thumbdown:

Why am I not suprised? :frown:



That has to be the most nonsensical ad hominem I've ever seen.


--------------------

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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: God Bless America [Re: Silversoul]
    #4474026 - 07/30/05 03:47 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I was thinking the exact same thing.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: God Bless America [Re: Ninjamutantballe]
    #4474538 - 07/30/05 06:41 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Patriotism can be interpreted any way one wishes
_________________________________________

^^^as you can see from all these posts. Like I said earlier I dropped the term in reference to myself because I felt it was misunderstood.

There is more to survival than just being alive. If you believe that you should never question the motives of your country because it is not patriotic, you risk losing what makes you want to live in your country.

I wouldn't want to live in Nazi Germany as a patriot just for survival sake. I would rather fall.

I don't care what you call them, if they are here to defend life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, in its truest sense, then count me among them. In that case I would be honored to be called a patriot.

Yet for me personally it is not the highest calling.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: God Bless America [Re: spud]
    #4474599 - 07/30/05 07:10 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

spud said:
Quote:

looner2 said:
Quote:

spud said:
Well, as for America, being a citizen of America my entire life I can testify to seeing very many horrible things from patriotism. The negatives I have encountered far out weight the positives.




Since you brought up your personal life spud, your whopping 20-some years on this earth means jackshit to weighing the positives/negatives about patriotism to form an opinion of it.

Have you ever been in a situation where your life and country could possibly be eradicated? Its happened throughout history. People have been conquered and no longer exist. Don't let the peace blind you.




Believe it or not, many opinions take less than 20 years to form!

I think I can get a good enough picture of patriotism in 20 years. If you disagree, then all I can do is give you my greatest solace in the lack of a proper education you apparently have.

Just because you cannot form a coherent representation on the reality of locality within 20 years doesn't mean other more competent beings can't.




History is a better judge of patriotism and its virtues to the survival of human beings. I refer back to what I said earlier, you haven't been alive during any period where your life and nations life was threatened to exitinction. But regardless, with gems like, "you cannot form a coherent representation on the reality of locality" are why I keep coming back here. I've posted many arguments on the nobleness of patriotism, but they have gone unattacked, (besides your cute pictures of course).

To top it off, we all love your philosophy 102 comments also. You throw your latest logic book definitions at us like we should be impressed with your studying. To top it off you say things about someones level of education. How about you graduate before you showcase your philosophy knowledge, ok? It would do wonders for a pretentious attitude.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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InvisibleArp
roving mycophagist
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
Re: God Bless America [Re: Silversoul]
    #4475976 - 07/31/05 12:57 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Arp said:
paradigm gallery

Oh my oh my :thumbdown:

Why am I not suprised? :frown:



That has to be the most nonsensical ad hominem I've ever seen.




 

That is fucked up man. I've been reasoning empathy and compassion
with someone who apperantly knows nothing about it.

Just putting that shit up tells a great deal :rolleyes:

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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: God Bless America [Re: Arp]
    #4476060 - 07/31/05 01:23 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Arp said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Arp said:
paradigm gallery

Oh my oh my :thumbdown:

Why am I not suprised? :frown:



That has to be the most nonsensical ad hominem I've ever seen.




 

That is fucked up man. I've been reasoning empathy and compassion
with someone who apperantly knows nothing about it.

Just putting that shit up tells a great deal :rolleyes:



Apparently I've been debating with someone who speaks of the goodness in humanity and empathy for one's fellow man while resulting to personal attacks rather than discussing the issues at hand.


--------------------

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InvisibleArp
roving mycophagist
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
Re: God Bless America [Re: Ninjamutantballe]
    #4476359 - 07/31/05 03:06 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

:handth:

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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
Stranger-er

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 4,899
Last seen: 1 year, 9 days
Re: God Bless America [Re: Arp]
    #4476377 - 07/31/05 03:15 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Lol.

Quote:

I don't care what you call them, if they are here to defend life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, in its truest sense, then count me among them. In that case I would be honored to be called a patriot.




CoughStonemasonsCough

It's not worth the Hemp it was written on.

And history doesn't lie or have view...You can look at it and twist it up your own way, But that doesn't change it.

-Gnostic

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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
Stranger-er

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 4,899
Last seen: 1 year, 9 days
Re: God Bless America [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4476381 - 07/31/05 03:17 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Apparently I've been debating with someone who speaks of the goodness in humanity and empathy for one's fellow man while resulting to personal attacks rather than discussing the issues at hand.




Ditto. :thumbup:

This guy needs to read on how to hold an Argument. Seriously...:Shakes head:

-Gnostic

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