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Offlinephreedom420
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Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 105
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Closing of a thread *complaint*
    #4447134 - 07/24/05 05:04 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Hey guys,
I know I'm new here, but I have known some of the mods here for quite a while. I recently started a thread that discussed the conversion of morphine into di-acetyl morphine. About half of the respondants were giving valuable information and discussing the differences between morphine and heroin (the blood/brain barrier, etc). A few people were upset that I'd discuss somethin like that. It seems to me that if a category exists for "opiates" in the "Other Drugs Discussion" forum, it would be the ideal place for discussing all forms of opiates. Converting morhphine->heroin seems to be in the same vein of converstaion as extracting morphine and other opiates from the binders and gunk in pills.

The notification that I got went as such;
---
From: Wiccan_Seeker
This is just a courtesy notice that your thread "Morphine to Heroin" has been deleted by Wiccan_Seeker.

Reason for deletion: Morphine to Heroin - Thread deleted on multiple user requests.
---


This is, in my opinion, total bullshit. The entire purpose of this community is to create an environment in which education is distrubuted as harm-prevention. This sort of censorship seems contrathetical to the entire purpose and scope of the Shroomery and other such websites (lyceaum, erowid, etc). I wasn't asking for peoples moral belief on the use of opiates, I was asking a chemical question. If people are given the power to judge what sort of drugs can be discussed, when does it end? No talk about growing pot or extracting THC? No talk about purification of street drugs?


To conclude, I'm very upset that my post was shut down. If you search the forum for "morphine to heroin", you'll find a number of posts that deal with the same thing that weren't closed. When I sent a message to Facist_Seeker about this, he replied by banning me for 24 hours for an insult sent in private. To date, no reply to the actual content of my PM. Just thought that I should throw this out there for the group, since it is feedback.


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InvisibleJim
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Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: phreedom420]
    #4447191 - 07/24/05 05:22 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Although I don't use opiates anymore and have negative views towards them, I feel you should have been given a more honest reason for the thread closure.

In W_S defense, W_S is a great mod who is very knowledgeable. Perhaps you shouldn't have made an insult in PM and then again in this post.

There are other chemistry and opiate based forums out there as well.


--------------------
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afoaf said:
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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: phreedom420]
    #4447197 - 07/24/05 05:24 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:

It does seem hypocritical to kill a thread just b/c they feel that drug in particular shouldn't be talked about. Kinda silly if you ask me.


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InvisibleRESTLESS
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 21,817
Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: Jim]
    #4447198 - 07/24/05 05:24 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------


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Offlinephreedom420
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Registered: 07/08/05
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Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: Jim]
    #4447214 - 07/24/05 05:29 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think that a thread in an "Opiates" section should have been closed, thats the issue. I believe that he overstepped his bounds and I'd like to see what other administrators and moderators think of it. Maybe we could go through all of the threads and close ones that aren't popular.


Also, he told me in his ban message that this wasn't a democracy, odd that he'd say that and then close a thread because the majority wanted something. Got Dictionary?


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InvisibleJim
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Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: phreedom420]
    #4447359 - 07/24/05 06:11 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

On Deleting Posts & Dumping Threads:

*

Threads are to be sent to The Town Dump when they provide potentially harmful information, illegal information/advice, or are a direct threat to another user. If you believe your thread was dumped unjustly, you may contact an administrator for review and possible reinstatement no later than three days after the dumping.
*

Moderators must refrain from deleting individual posts prior to administrative approval. In the event a moderator has deleted a post without reasonable public explanation, their moderator privileges may be revoked.
*

As a preventative measure, it is always acceptable to close/lock threads in question until the administration is available for comment.
*

While outright deletion of posts requires approval, minor editing is allowed when consistent with the proper enforcement of forum or site policy. This is addressed in the On Editing Posts clause above.


--------------------
Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!

afoaf said:
Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Registered: 03/12/05
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Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: phreedom420]
    #4447411 - 07/24/05 06:23 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

That's bullshit. The post should be re-instated and the Nazis sent home without pay.


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


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Offlinephreedom420
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Registered: 07/08/05
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Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4447444 - 07/24/05 06:33 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Smallworlds said:
That's bullshit. The post should be re-instated and the Nazis sent home without pay.





^^^^^^^^^^


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Offlinephreedom420
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Registered: 07/08/05
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Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: phreedom420]
    #4450682 - 07/25/05 03:52 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Any reply from any moderators or administrators about this?


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OfflineInfrared
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Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: phreedom420]
    #4450990 - 07/25/05 04:47 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Reason for deletion: Morphine to Heroin - Thread deleted on multiple user requests.
---




that was a crap reason.. you shouldnt have a thread deleted just becausde some people dont like it.


--------------------
When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry:rainbowdrink:


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Registered: 03/12/05
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Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: Infrared]
    #4451074 - 07/25/05 05:00 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

In the predictable absence of a response by the thread closer, I would guess "This information is dangerous" seems to be the reasoning.

I disagree, the information on mushroom cultivation is considered dangerous (to their cause) information to some, and since we are in the fight against mis-information....


...closing a thread because some of the more closed-minded mushroom heads here decide that they don't want anyone knowing how to make Heroin from Morphene is absurd.


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: phreedom420]
    #4451615 - 07/25/05 06:42 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

phreedom420..

You registered here barely three weeks ago. A thread of yours, starting with a one-liner post, gets deleted and you write a letter to a moderator full of insults, blatantly calling me a "fucking nazi pig" and more of such flattery and then expect to be dealt with in courtesy.

After a mere 24 hour ban (what's 24 hours?) you return and create this thread distortring my name to Fascist_Seeker and more of such insults.

Want a reason?

Threads are to be sent to The Town Dump when they provide potentially harmful information, illegal information/advice,

Bam. Just like that. You were inquiring into heroin synthesis. Thats about as felonious as illegal activities go. It is also potentially harmful information. If morphine is converted to heroin contaminations occur as well as an increase in potency over the original product. That sounds like potentially harmful to me.
Same rationale applies to crack recipies.

If you believe your thread was dumped unjustly, you may contact an administrator for review and possible reinstatement no later than three days after the dumping.

As far as I know you didnt do that. Instead you wrote a letter going fascist this and nazi that. Does aggression get you far with authority figures? I could've partly resurrected your thread. But with that attitude? No way.

Smallworlds said:
.
That's bullshit. The post should be re-instated and the Nazis sent home without pay.


Well, your respect for the management is duly noted.
The moderators of this site do NOT get paid in any way. We dont even get free merchandise :wink: What we do get is the fulfillment of doing volunteer work for our community. What we also get is a good foulmouthing rant by some members who perhaps like the community but publicly take a dump over the management.
But you're just fanning the flames aren't you?  :smirk:

Quote:

I don't think that a thread in an "Opiates" section should have been closed, thats the issue.




Phreedom: if that was your issue then you can stop your ranting. It wasnt IN an "opiates section". In fact the Shroomery has no opiates section.

Quote:


Also, he told me in his ban message that this wasn't a democracy, odd that he'd say that and then close a thread because the majority wanted something. Got Dictionary




I didn't close the thread on the basis of a majority, phreedom. Take your own dictionary and look up multiple.
Multiple users complained about your thread. That is unusual as threads go. So I went there and saw it was in violation.

Quote:

The entire purpose of this community is to create an environment in which education is distrubuted as harm-prevention.




Where is the harm prevcention in recipies for toolshed heroin? Where alternative chemicals are discussed because the proper chemicals cannot be had without a licence? Avoiding the watch list?
That was talk about making heroin on the REALITY LEVEL.
That is a highly illegal hobby (20 years to life) and definately potentially hazardous. Where does HARM REDUCTION come into play when you got a thread about how to make heroin without a laboratory and without the proper precursors to circumvent the Watched Chemicals list?

Nazis and fascists?
Newbie: you reged three weeks ago. That likely means you either did not contribute to the community before, or got permanently banned under another username before.

Your starting post was a oneliner question and then you raise hell leading to a ban and you scream fascist when you return from your ban.

Hint: get reasonable fast. I don't know what goes and what doesnt in your community, but the Shroomery volunteers are not too fond of getting viciously insulted over a oneliner post, with a lot of noise being made over a clear violation of two rules and nettiquette on top of that.

If the administrators decide that I was wrong then I am fully at peace with that, because despite all your insults of fascist this and nazi that this to me isn't personal, but I'm simply doing my job.
So, you've got a problem with authority and controlling yourself. More people have that. You needed a wakeup call, and got one.

So what will it be?
Will you be a man and apologize fot your insults, will you back off and start contributing to the community rather than try start a riot or will you go rabid - and maybe get banned?
Your move.


--------------------
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OfflineInfrared
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Registered: 07/15/02
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Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: Asante]
    #4451721 - 07/25/05 07:02 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

You were inquiring into heroin synthesis. Thats about as felonious as illegal activities go. It is also potentially harmful information.




growing mushrooms aka. manufacturing a schedule 1 drug (psilocin) is just as felonous. theres a reason for the forum ' other drugs disscussion'.. so people can talk about other drugs. gimme a break , what disscussion about drugs wouldnt be considered harmful by someone?

i dont like crack or smack. but we should be able to discuss them openly in the proper forum. as long as no one is giving out dosage advice. synth's of meth and mdma and other psychedelics seem to be okay to discuss.


--------------------
When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry:rainbowdrink:


Edited by DeepBlue42 (07/25/05 07:10 PM)


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: Asante]
    #4451736 - 07/25/05 07:05 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

So what will it be?
Will you be a man and apologize fot your insults, will you back off and start contributing to the community rather than try start a riot or will you go rabid - and maybe get banned?
Your move.




Dude, I don't think he thinks of this like it's a chess game, which, you evidently do.

Quote:

Well, your respect for the management is duly noted.
The moderators of this site do NOT get paid in any way. We dont even get free merchandise What we do get is the fulfillment of doing volunteer work for our community. What we also get is a good foulmouthing rant by some members who perhaps like the community but publicly take a dump over the management.
But you're just fanning the flames aren't you?




I respect the hours of work involved in maintaining and managing this site. Yes, I am a Shroomery patriot mmkay? I have a little yellow ribbon on my SUV that says "Support our mods" and everything.

That out of the way, what I don't respect is when the free flow of information is curtailed. If there is to be an "other drugs" forum, then hello, other drugs ought to be able to be discussed there.

There is nothing illegal in discussing a chemical process. Information is not illegal...yet. But, thanks to censuring due to popular outcry, such as you have demonstrated, the time may soon arive when someone decided that the information available on this website is not fit for viewing, and they might be someone in power who ends up taking the site down. You ever think of that?

We should consider ourselves very lucky that information is not outlawed, and take a very suspicious look at any sort of actions which tend towards the stifling of the free flow of information.

Plus, the Oracle says: "I thought you would have figured that out by now."

So, that's why I said nazi, believe me, it was nothing personal. It was to describe how I felt about the action that you took, but not you personally.

Take care.


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


Trip Report


Edited by Smallworlds (07/25/05 07:11 PM)


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Invisiblegdman
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Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: phreedom420]
    #4452266 - 07/25/05 09:35 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Hmm, well if you had a complaint, I don't think calling people "fascists and Nazis" will get you anywhere. I support W_S in what he did, if they're so many other threads, why don't you read those?


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

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OfflineSmallworlds
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Registered: 03/12/05
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Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: gdman]
    #4452494 - 07/25/05 10:36 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Dude. "There are so many other threads, why not go read those?"??!!

Dude, that's just a cop-out and you know it.

The issue isn't whether or not there exists an abundance of other threads to read, the issue is that a thread was dumped for no good reason other than other people trying to impose restrictions on the information that other people are allowed to read about, in a forum which exists for the very discussion which ended up censored.

Forget about the "I support Wiccan_Seeker" bravado BS, and get with the actual topic being discussed. It isn't whether or not we like wiccan_seeker, it's whether or not the free flow of information should be hindered on a website dedicated to the free flow of information.

I would expect anyone to react negatively when their posts are disturbed for this type of bullshit reason as well.

Perhaps he could have been more polite, but so fucking what? He got his ban and served it out, and his complaint is still every bit as valid as before.


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


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Invisiblegdman
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Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4452554 - 07/25/05 10:51 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I hate to say this dude but: "All mods and admins have the final say".

If you guys wish to get anything accomplished, perhaps you should consider using some discretion when you make complaints. No one will help you if you call them all Nazi pigfuckers.


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Registered: 03/12/05
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Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: gdman]
    #4452634 - 07/25/05 11:10 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I hate to say this dude but: "All mods and admins have the final say".




Well, it would be nice to hear from an admin on this anyway. Those are the ones, history shows, with the real final say.

Quote:

If you guys wish to get anything accomplished, perhaps you should consider using some discretion when you make complaints. No one will help you if you call them all Nazi pigfuckers.




If you don't wan't a mob with torches throwing rocks at the castle like this, then treat posters and their individual posts with the respect due them.

Final say or not, that there's the truth bro.


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


Trip Report


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Invisiblegdman
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Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4452648 - 07/25/05 11:13 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

He was just enforcing the rules, listen, if you want us to help you, do not act like an asshole, that's it. You're not going to get anywhere acting like that.

No one is forcing you to post here.


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve


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Offlinephreedom420
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Registered: 07/08/05
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Re: Closing of a thread *complaint* [Re: Asante]
    #4452652 - 07/25/05 11:13 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Actually, I give you full permission to post the ENTIRE message so that the truth about it can be known.  I told you that it's idiotic to close a topic like that, I showed you links of other such topics dealing with the EXACT same thing.  If censorship and ignorance is your style, good for you.

You banned me for being upset that you closed a category in the "opiates" section that dealt with opiates.  Thats pure bullshit. Notice how EVERY SINGLE respondant in this ENTIRE thread said it's bullshit? It's not like I'm coming out of left field here, the majority of people would say to keep the thread open. Right?

Well, geez, this really shows your line of thinking.  In my idea of "freedom", you can't have illegal information. If you can show me some law that this information violated, I'd ceed that it's illegal.  Processes are illegal, precursors are illegal, reactions are illegal, information is NOT, unless you are a "fucking nazi pig" :-)  Also, isn't the entire purpose of this website to give instructions to create illicit drugs?

Yes sweetypie, heroin SYNTHESIS is illegal.  The information that relates to it is not. Hopefully that difference is clear to you, Reichsfuhrer.

Paste me my initial thread, the one you closed, and tell me how asking how to make something is harmful?

Hah, ok there General McAffery, I thought that the community was created for the spread of information and to STOP dangerous disinformation.  "potentially harmful" "illegal information" Wow dude, pretty soon we'll have to start hiding shroom growers behind our bookshelves, eh Herr Goebbles?

Actually, I e-mailed Geo, with no response, about 2 seconds after you banned me.  If you want to ban my threads for "illegal information", thats fine with me.  Hopefully the other Moderators / Admins will tell you what a crock of horseshit that is and you'll have your leash yanked some.  I'm sure that you can read the posts here and see what the general consensus is about the thread closing, no Herr Kommandant?

Dude, you want to ban threads that contain "illegal information" and "potentially harmful" information on a fucking DRUG board.  Asking the proper way to conduct a synthesis isn't "illegal information", and it's harm REDUCTION.  Geez man, you act like something and you get CALLED something, know what I mean verne?

should I say it in German? YOU CLOSED A THREAD ABOUT OPIATES IN A SUB FORUM ABOUT OPIATES. Every admin /mod that i've talked with about it said "bullshit" as to your justification for doing so.  Also, of all the reasons you listed in THIS post, NONE of them were listed in the thread closure notification and the ONE reason that you DID list, HASNT been mentioned! Changing ships in mid stream isn't giving us the best confidence in you. It's time to admit you fucked up, you didn't do what the majority of the community would have asked, and it's time to suck it up and apologize.

Er, sub-forum "Opiates" in "Other Drugs Discussion"? Thats not "opiates"? Are you sure sweetypie? :smile: 

Ok, I've re-emailed the admins and we'll get a ruling soon.  Also, 98% of the threads in "Mushroom Cultivation", "advanced cultivation", "outdoor growing", "Grow logs and pictures" give DETAILED advice for breaking the law in the country in which the Shroomery is hosted.  Maybe we should close all of them, hm? :smile:
Quote:


Where is the harm prevcention in recipies for toolshed heroin?




I asked for a specific synthesis procedure.  Where is the harm prevention in telling people how to use acetone to re-rock cocaine? To CWE morphine? To bang heroin?
Quote:



That is a highly illegal hobby (20 years to life) and definately potentially hazardous.




Driving a car is pretty potentially hazerdous too, no?  Hah, I don't wnat YOUR OPINION guiding what threads you shut down. If they TRUELy violated the rules, thats OK. But your bias against Opiates made you shut down this oen cause dirty naughty HEROIN was mentioned.  When are you going to lock the other threads that I showed you that dealt with the same subject manner? I'll bump them all for you in ODD under "Opiates" (Yes, the sub-forum that doesn't exist!) so that you can close them. Or explain why you won't?
Quote:


Where does HARM REDUCTION come into play when you got a thread about how to make heroin without a laboratory and without the proper precursors to circumvent the Watched Chemicals list?




If you can show where I asked to do it in that exact method, that'd be nifty! I can't show my exact post, maybe you can un-lock it for a little bit and let us all see it and see whereI  asked to do that.  Most of the responses DID deal with a watched chemical, right? So, clearly, it WASNT meeting those criteron! Geez man, you should work for the Bush administrtaion. 
"it's because people were upset"
"it's because it's illegal information"
"it's because heroin is bad for you"
"it's because you asked how to do it with controlled substances"
Which one is it ?
Quote:


Newbie: you reged three weeks ago. That likely means you either did not contribute to the community before, or got permanently banned under another username before.




:smile:
Quote:


Your starting post was a oneliner question and then you raise hell leading to a ban and you scream fascist when you return from your ban.




You acted wrongly, suck it up, admit it, stop being a
Quote:


Hint: get reasonable fast. I don't know what goes and what doesnt in your community, but the Shroomery volunteers are not too fond of getting viciously insulted over a oneliner post, with a lot of noise being made over a clear violation of two rules and nettiquette on top of that.




www.midol.com
www.kleenex.com
Get some midol and some Kleenex, if you don't like it, tough shit, don't read it. Their is an OPIATES SECTION OF THE OTHER DRUGS DISCUSSION FORUM ,what the fuck else would you talk about in there? Clowns and puppy dogs?
Quote:


If the administrators decide that I was wrong then I am fully at peace with that, because despite all your insults of fascist this and nazi that this to me isn't personal, but I'm simply doing my job.




you still don't think you were wrong? Then why do you keep changing reasons every minute or so?
Quote:


So, you've got a problem with authority and controlling yourself. More people have that. You needed a wakeup call, and got one.




www.kleenex.com
Quote:



Will you be a man and apologize fot your insults,




no way dude, you acted like a fascist scum.  you closed a thread that EVERY SINGLE PERSON that's replied to this, that EVERY SINGLE mod that I've talked with, that was in the OPIATES section, that had been asked before and NOT locked, you can't see how you are in the wrong here man?
Quote:


will you back off and start contributing to the community rather than try start a riot or will you go rabid - and maybe get banned?




"Eef you Joose move into zee ghetto, ve vill guarantee your savety" :-) No thanks.  Ban me if you want, I'm just speaking the truth, and everyone agrees with me
Quote:


Your move.



Yours. Some questions I'd liek answered

1) will you close ALL posts that relate to "illegal information"
2) Could you possibly show me the laws that relate to information being illegal? I'm very interested in this, thanks.
3) What other purpose would an "OPIATES" Sub-Forum have than discussing opiates? Did you manage to find this category yet?
4) Willyou be shutting down threads that deal with re-rocking cocaine with acetone? Washing cocaine with acetone?
5) Will you give me a CONSISTANT reason why you closed the thread?
6) Are all opiate related threads to be closed? Would you find it odd that the PowersThatBe would make an opiates thread, then expect you to subjectivly say how bad Opiates are and close down threads?
7) Will you be closing the other threads on heroin rxns?


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