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OfflineBCBudJohn
Foolhardy

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 150
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
This is essential.
    #4445325 - 07/24/05 02:14 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I've done some thinking. I don't want to be black and white, but i'll go right out and say it. I think alot of the debate that goes on around here is usually between the left and right camps.

I think we should all move on and get over our differences, and realize that there is a more plausible, more effective, and certainly more interesting idea (as proposed in Michael J. Fox's documentary, "Back to the Future") to improve the lay-mans lot in life. I believe we should abandon our biases and prejudices, and move for this noble cause. We should focus our efforts on time machines, so everyone may use them to improve their lot in life! We need to be united on this front, to save humanity.

Now who's with me?  :crazy2:


--------------------
Peace
John


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: This is essential. [Re: BCBudJohn]
    #4445350 - 07/24/05 02:23 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Left and right have become essentially meaningless to me. I'm just pro-freedom. I'm libertarian, and while libertarians tend to be categorized as being on the right, I often find insight and inspiration in the works of left-wing anarchists.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: This is essential. [Re: Silversoul]
    #4445369 - 07/24/05 02:29 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'm an up wing extremist.


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: This is essential. [Re: BCBudJohn]
    #4446085 - 07/24/05 08:00 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I think it's possible to rise above the spectrum, but it's real fucking hard... Even if someone is 'in the middle' or libertarian or whatever, they still tend to fluctuate slightly between left and right... In my opinion, Ancalagon is one of the only people here who's been able to completely rid himself of that kind of bias.

I'm very comfortable being on the left.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: This is essential. [Re: Gijith]
    #4446140 - 07/24/05 09:08 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

There is a lot of realistic political philosophy on this board, hardly left and right thrashing. Go to other boards and see how ridiculous it gets. There is potential here.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: This is essential. [Re: Silversoul]
    #4449769 - 07/25/05 10:32 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'm just pro-freedom.

Everyone is "just pro-freedom". They've just all got different definitions as to what constitutes the proper level of freedom.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: This is essential. [Re: Phluck]
    #4449918 - 07/25/05 11:44 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
I'm just pro-freedom.

Everyone is "just pro-freedom". They've just all got different definitions as to what constitutes the proper level of freedom.



You'd be surprised. I've seen quite a few people who consider security much more important than freedom. By calling myself "pro-freedom," I mean that I consider freedom to be of the utmost importance, and am not as willing as others are to sacrifice it for security or comfort.


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Edited by Paradigm (07/25/05 12:10 PM)


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Offlinephreedom420
Stranger
Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 105
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: This is essential. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4450875 - 07/25/05 04:26 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I hate wings, I'm a breast man.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: This is essential. [Re: looner2]
    #4457020 - 07/26/05 09:15 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
There is a lot of realistic political philosophy on this board, hardly left and right thrashing. Go to other boards and see how ridiculous it gets. There is potential here.




I agree.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleArp
roving mycophagist
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Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
Re: This is essential. [Re: Silversoul]
    #4457150 - 07/26/05 09:42 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
You'd be surprised.  I've seen quite a few people who consider security much more important than freedom. 




I think those two are so relative. If you use those terms what says you can't have freedom and security at the same time?

"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought".
A quote that I like very much :smirk:

I think freedom can evolve out of security. It's all in your head.
The more you get to think, the more likely you are to find it.

Less time for reflecting having to fight daily for your survival.


Edited by Arp (07/26/05 09:52 PM)


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: This is essential. [Re: Arp]
    #4457419 - 07/26/05 10:51 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

How exactly are you defining security?

Are you saying you feel more free post-Patriot Act?

What about section 216, which allows judges to grant government investigators ex parte orders to look into personal phone and internet records on the basis of being "relevant for an on going investigation", rather than probable cause as outlined in the fourth amendment.

Does that make you feel more free?


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: This is essential. [Re: BCBudJohn]
    #4457452 - 07/26/05 10:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'm all over the political spectrum. It all depends how I feel on a certain day, who I'm with, and what events had just occurred.


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: This is essential. [Re: Redstorm]
    #4457489 - 07/26/05 11:03 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

What about the contents of your lunch for the day?


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InvisibleArp
roving mycophagist
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Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
Re: This is essential. [Re: spud]
    #4457535 - 07/26/05 11:12 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Depends on how you look at it. Apperently someone gains a new
freedom from it. They are free to check you up.
But you lose your ability to be anonymous.

Same goes with wealth. If you have alot of cash you can let others
work for you. You are free to do whatever. But they arent. Are they?
They are free to choose their opressor.
Without opression they wouldnt have that freedom:grin:


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: This is essential. [Re: Arp]
    #4457557 - 07/26/05 11:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

If you call that freedom.

I consider freedom only freedom if it doesn't restrict freedom.

Freedom that infringes on the the freedom of others isn't freedom at all.

It is oppression.


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

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Registered: 10/08/02
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Last seen: 9 months, 4 days
Re: This is essential. [Re: spud]
    #4457830 - 07/27/05 12:24 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

spud said:
What about the contents of your lunch for the day?




Yes. If Roe is overturned, I'll have to stop my daily feasting on dead fetuses.


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
Re: This is essential. [Re: BCBudJohn]
    #4457837 - 07/27/05 12:26 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I think one way to move on would be for everyone to stop labeling people based on the opinions they give out. So many times have people started bashing someone and calling them names like naive left winger or stupid right wing capitalist pig and stuff like that.

We're not gonna get anywhere if we get stuck in this left and right political bullshit. We should stop indentifying ourselves and other people with political parties.


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InvisibleArp
roving mycophagist
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Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
Re: This is essential. [Re: spud]
    #4457993 - 07/27/05 01:06 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You can define that kind of freedom any way you want.

What about the freedom from not having to use these now controlled
mediums? Can be pretty hard not to. We are pretty much forced to!
You are "free" to chose from what is being offered.

You say that your freedom includes your rights to anonymity.
Seems like you don't have many other worries than that, making it
an issue.

Maybe you are fortunate. Many people in other parts of the world
would certainly trade their anonymity for healthcare & food.
So what if somebody reads their emails or listen to their calls?
They are alive! They are free from having to live a miserable life!

Being able to live a healthy life with your family might be
true peace & freedom of existance for some.

Still.. Freedom based upon external criteras sounds too much
like an illusion of control to be realy genuin :grin:


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OfflineBCBudJohn
Foolhardy

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 150
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: This is essential. [Re: Arp]
    #4458220 - 07/27/05 02:02 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

People! Focus on the Time Machines! Can't you see that we're losing focus of the big picture?


--------------------
Peace
John


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InvisibleArp
roving mycophagist
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Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
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Re: This is essential. [Re: BCBudJohn]
    #4458270 - 07/27/05 02:12 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

there are only now! :naughty:


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