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Invisiblemikonn
me

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 192
Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help.
    #4441855 - 07/23/05 08:48 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

E.

Northern Virginia, usa.
Found on lawn.



Stem- 4 to 5 in. thicker at apex. undulating or whatever. fiborous spiralling down in some. lighter at top. blueing at base
Cap- 1/2 in to 1 1/2 in. conic to nearly flat with bump on top which is darker. margin up turned. increasing with age.
Gills- tan to nearly black . close to far with age. alway below margin.



print black.

??
any ideas.

more to come.


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InvisibleLouiseLouise
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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: mikonn]
    #4441874 - 07/23/05 09:10 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

All of the mushrooms you have shown in these four threads are Panaeolus subbalteatus
But why 4 threads? Were all of the mushrooms that you show found in the same group? If not how far apart? They're subbs.
To get a better idea of gill to stem relationship, cut one in half long way.


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"That's why you get in close to them, and then take the picture!! Don't be a pussy!" ~CC


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OfflineRamuh
Finder of thesubbs

Registered: 07/04/05
Posts: 837
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: LouiseLouise]
    #4441884 - 07/23/05 09:19 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Actually IMO...tho ones in this thread all look like foes, while in some of the other threads I see subbs. I agree that this many threads was quite unnecessary though.

The prints in the other threads look pretty black, but this one to me looks like a foe print. The main thing making me say it is a foe, though, would be the gills. Not only do they hang pretty low, but they don't have that tight and closer pattern that the subbs seem to have.

But Im confused, the bottom half of these pics look completely different than the top half ones now that I look at it. So yeah..we need some organization here. Overall, through all of your posts, it would seem as if you have a foe/subb mix. Foes are inactive, subbs are active. Anyway, my first paragraph saying they were foes was based on the first two pics.


--------------------
Radio is down for a day or two to transfer all my music, and do some other work.

"Light, coming from my mind. We are one, the night has just begun"


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Invisiblemikonn
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Posts: 192
Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: LouiseLouise]
    #4441909 - 07/23/05 09:32 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

LouiseLouise

All of the mushrooms in the 5 threads where found in the same yard. The 5 mushrooms are markedly different. Some blue on there caps. stems are different. different colors, gills are different. age differently. They can not be all subbs. I posted five threads to address each different type of mushroom. Rather than loading up one thread with all that info. Its an attempt to be organized.

this one in particular has an upturn margin at any age, I do not believe that is true with subbs. the stems are not like subbs. the gills are not like subs. ? ? ?

what make you say it is a subb exactly?
Please take a closer look. I appreciate it.


Edited by mikonn (07/23/05 09:48 AM)


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Invisiblemikonn
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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: Ramuh]
    #4441920 - 07/23/05 09:37 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Ramuh,

the 3rd and 4th pic in this post are simply different views of the mushrooms in the 1st pic. the 2nd pic are the same type of mushrooms. The exact same mushrooms. This mushroom blues at its base and has black prints. it is not a foe.


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InvisibleLouiseLouise
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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: mikonn]
    #4441935 - 07/23/05 09:47 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

ok, let's start from the beginning. All of your mushrooms print back. Though after more examining, I'm inclined to agree with Ramuh. So, that puts them in the panaeolus genus. They were growing out of the ground. that narrows it down pretty good to foens or subbs.
From what I see, the caps are an irregular shape. They are bruising blue at the base and the cap (most subbs don't bruise at all) I see a slight bulbous just below the cap. I see that the striation patterns are spiraling. All of those are characteristic of pan. subb. Just because they don't have the classic "belt" on the cap, some are lighter in the cap. There is no rule that says the gills of subbs cannot hang below the level of the cap.
I don't know what my tone sounds like to you, but I am not calling you stupid, nor am I arguing with you, just working together to help you identify what you found.
What other indicators do you see that says these are not subbs?


--------------------
"That's why you get in close to them, and then take the picture!! Don't be a pussy!" ~CC


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Invisiblemikonn
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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: LouiseLouise]
    #4441949 - 07/23/05 09:53 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks LouiseLouise

I just edited my previous reply. I'm not sure if my tone sounds aggressive, but definately I appreciate your help. I think the main characteristic with these is the persistant upturned margin at all ages, the coloring. the fairly thin long stems.


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InvisibleLouiseLouise
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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: mikonn]
    #4441959 - 07/23/05 10:02 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

It didn't Mikkon, just that I hate to see ppl go to calling each other nasty names when nothing has been implied. I'm not perfect, I am wrong alot of times too.
Yeah, I noticed that about this set of pics. in particular. If you say they bruise blue at the base just like the others, may be just the position they were in, more sun or something. It's amazing how the same mushrooms from the same general area can look so different. Imma go search for that page Gumby started, and bring it here. I don't know if you've read it, but it shows side by side comparisons, very interesting. I'll be back...


--------------------
"That's why you get in close to them, and then take the picture!! Don't be a pussy!" ~CC


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InvisibleLouiseLouise
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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: mikonn]
    #4441968 - 07/23/05 10:11 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

'ere ya go, check this out, very informative.
http://www.impakt.net/~tyler/subbs/
Thanks Gumby.


--------------------
"That's why you get in close to them, and then take the picture!! Don't be a pussy!" ~CC


Edited by LouiseLouise (07/23/05 10:13 AM)


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Invisiblemikonn
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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: LouiseLouise]
    #4441978 - 07/23/05 10:20 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks alot,

Yes that's a very interesting page. Helps alot with subbs.

Yes all the comments I made were refering to this post in particular.
Some of these definately did blue at base, I should say some more than others. Prints are definately black. I don't see how these can be subs.


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OfflineRamuh
Finder of thesubbs

Registered: 07/04/05
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Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: mikonn]
    #4443361 - 07/23/05 04:25 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well from the second picture the stems looked REALLY white, as opposed to the other ones, which is why I thought they were different mushrooms. The caps really have little to do with identifying between which is which really, as they both end up looking pretty darn close after some nice sun exporsure.

Judging by the third picture, I would say they are subbs all the way. By the second picture, I would say foes all the way...if all I saw was that second picture I would be pretty convinced they are foes. Since they are all the same in all the pics, though, they must be subbs...just with some odd lighting going on in that one pic.

Really the only thing that makes me doubt the subbness of these would be the gills being further apart than subbs Ive seen (and the stem color in pic #2). Everything else points to subb though, so yeah.


--------------------
Radio is down for a day or two to transfer all my music, and do some other work.

"Light, coming from my mind. We are one, the night has just begun"


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Invisiblemikonn
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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: Ramuh]
    #4443569 - 07/23/05 05:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Ramuh,
Hi there. Are you saying that you have found subbs that have upturned margins and are nearly flat throughout there growth? I don't understand how this mushroom looks like a Panaeolus subbalteatus? would it be possible for you to post some images of ones you have found that are similiar?
thanks


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OfflineRamuh
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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: mikonn]
    #4443619 - 07/23/05 05:44 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mikonn said:
Ramuh,
Hi there. Are you saying that you have found subbs that have upturned margins and are nearly flat throughout there growth? I don't understand how this mushroom looks like a Panaeolus subbalteatus? would it be possible for you to post some images of ones you have found that are similiar?
thanks




Here are characteristics that make it look like the active mushroom Panaeolus Subbalteatus. In the lower two pictures, the stems are a darker color with a reddish tint kinda in there. Foes are generally more whitish. Where the gills meet the stem at the top, I see the little lines that are usually a signature mark of subbs. On the stem itself, it looks like I can see the little spirals going down the stem on some of them, which is also a subb trait. The biggest thing is a JET BLACK sporeprint. Foes have a very very dark brown sporeprint (easily confused as black, until you find a subb and see what black truly is). Also, the caps are slightly deformed. This is possible in both species, but it is much more common in the subb.

So, are you saying that you think these are foes? I was under the impression you thought they were subbs anyway. As for pictures of subbs I have found...unfortunately the only one I have is a webcam shot I quickly took to show someone something. Here it is anyway. Ill have to take more shots of my finds from now on, now that I have a nice digital camera to use.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/Corrack/Picture5.jpg (showing of gills, note that they are much more tightly packed, which was my only complaint against your mushrooms).


--------------------
Radio is down for a day or two to transfer all my music, and do some other work.

"Light, coming from my mind. We are one, the night has just begun"


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: Ramuh]
    #4443665 - 07/23/05 06:01 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Are you sure your prints are black? those look like more like Psilocybe than either Panaeolus or Panaeolina.
The general size of the mushrooms is relatively small for Panaeolus subbalteatus, and doesnt fit the physical description, but Panaeolina foenisecii has a brown print and doesnt stain blue, so that is also unlikely.


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Invisiblemikonn
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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #4444149 - 07/23/05 08:33 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

thanks for looking.
I'm going to go back to all my prints and take better pics. should be able to post them soon.


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Invisiblemikonn
me

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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #4444309 - 07/23/05 09:19 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

ok. here are some better pics of the prints.



they look black. but some of the gills did seem to have a slight purplish tinge to them. i don't know.


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Invisibleflowstone
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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: mikonn]
    #4444944 - 07/24/05 12:20 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

All the ones pictured here are foes. look how thinly apart and brown the gills are even in fully mature specimens. Subbs will be black gilled when fully mature as long as they've been that way for a little bit.


--------------------
these long agonizing months without you...have been long and agonizing..
"War Doesn't Decide Who's Right... It Only Decides Who's Left."


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OfflineRamuh
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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: flowstone]
    #4444959 - 07/24/05 12:26 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

That set of sporeprints does NOT look black...well, it does, but not jet black like subbs.

Due to that they are pretty much for sure foes. Hence Im inclined to believe that the second picture has the colors closest to correct, which makes it look like a foe. Im still kinda baffled by the insane difference in colors in the same mushrooms just from two different angles :P.


--------------------
Radio is down for a day or two to transfer all my music, and do some other work.

"Light, coming from my mind. We are one, the night has just begun"


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Invisiblemikonn
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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: flowstone]
    #4445036 - 07/24/05 12:52 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Flowstone,

Thanks for looking. I don't believe they are subbs. But i also don't believe they are foes. The prints are black. no brown at all.
the also blued on the bottom half on the stem.

here it shown it a little.
Unfortunately I didnt get very good pics of the bluing. Hopefully I be able to get some more and get better pics.
but it's not a foe.


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Invisibleflowstone
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Re: Welcome to Virginia! 5th in series of Posts of VA finds Pics. help. [Re: mikonn]
    #4445049 - 07/24/05 12:55 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

You call that bluing? Have you ever seen a fresh cube? IMO there is no bluing there. And even on pan subs bluing is rare. Bluing is NOT(rarely) an ID factor when trying to identify subbs.


--------------------
these long agonizing months without you...have been long and agonizing..
"War Doesn't Decide Who's Right... It Only Decides Who's Left."


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Hunting and Identification

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