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phreedom420
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Re: Understanding Che Guevara - What's The Attraction? [Re: Prosgeopax]
#4441147 - 07/23/05 01:20 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Being a commie means you are cooler than a cucumber.
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bukkake
Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: Understanding Che Guevara - What's The Attraction? [Re: phreedom420]
#4441822 - 07/23/05 06:17 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Not since the Red Scare it hasn't.
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newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: Understanding Che Guevara - What's The Attraction? [Re: bukkake]
#4442138 - 07/23/05 09:54 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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I too sometimes wear a Guevara article of clothing. But for a couple of different reasons.
First because out of maybe 20 random Americans I have asked in different stores and restaurants not a single one could name the person. On top of that people who actually recognize the face from somewhere still have not clue who he is.
Second because it is a wonderful symbol of irony. Guevara hated capitalism and yet only through capitalism am I able to purchase the cheaply while choosing from multiple businesses.
Third because it is a symbol of the evolution of my political ideals. From socialism to something else.
Oh and I guess also because no one makes a good Thomas Jefferson article of clothing and I don't think he would go over to well as a fashion statement.
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Prosgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?
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Re: Understanding Che Guevara - What's The Attraction? [Re: bukkake]
#4442174 - 07/23/05 10:10 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bukkake said: UNICEF statistics on Cuba.
I have no idea what that man is jabbering about.
Maybe you should read more carefully.
Where does Unicef get it's data? When I follow the links for data sources, I find this: Under-five and infant mortality rates - UNICEF, United Nations Population Division and United Nations Statistics Division.
GDP per capita - World Bank.
Fertility - United Nations Population Division. Not very informative. Are they allowed to freely tour the country or is it tightly controlled data fed to it by the government? How does Cuba's neighborhood snitch system suppress the free flow of information?
Quote:
And I am in no way defending Castro. He's a lunatic and a murderer.
How can you not trust Castro, but trust his data? Why is propaganda and massaged data coming from a leftist regime not given the same critical examination as that coming from more free societies? Why are totalitarian commies repeatedly given the benefit of the doubt by the left?
-------------------- Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes. You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way. - Tom Willhite Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.
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bukkake
Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: Understanding Che Guevara - What's The Attraction? [Re: Prosgeopax]
#4443579 - 07/23/05 03:30 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't know. Do you know how they collect their data? Neither do I. What I do know from your copy and paste is the man in the Q/A obviously has an axe to grind with Castro and seems to white wash Batista's atrocities and failures. Also, Thomas Woods is a conservative historian.
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Why are totalitarian commies repeatedly given the benefit of the doubt by the left?
I am not from the left or right. Most of my political opinions I try to gather with logic. There has been an improvement in literacy and decrease in infant mortality rates, according to data collecting international bodies. Is it bullshit coming from Castro? I don't know. Everytime this is cited to someone who is against Castro or knows very little about Cuba argues this and says it's just propaganda coming from his regime.
I'll acknowledge I don't know shit other than what is readable and accessible online, as do you. I've never been to Cuba, as that is illegal to do as an American citizen. You'd think our government would like us to see these 'devestating' effects of communism. But about UNICEF:
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Public perception
UNICEF is the world's leading children's organization. Over the 60 years of its history it has become a primary reference for governments and NGOs, collecting and disseminating more research on children than any other organization, writing position papers on various aspects of the health and environments of children. UNICEF has also organized world-wide fundraising drives, to fund interventions which directly benefit children.
These efforts have earned it a sterling reputation. But no organization is either faultless or without critics. Many groups, governments, and individuals have criticized UNICEF over the years for failing to meet the needs of their particular group or interest. Recent examples include criticism of its perceived failure to hold the Government of Sudan adequately accountable for the practice of slavery in southern Sudan, its policy against the marketing of breast-milk substitutes in developing world hospitals, and its adherence to the 1990 Convention on the Rights of the Child, which has been ratified by every government in the world except the United States and Somalia.
Unlike NGOs, UNICEF is an inter-governmental organization and thus is accountable to governments. This gives it unique reach and access in every country in the world, but also sometimes hampers its ability to speak out on rights violations.
UNICEF has also been criticized for having political bias; while UNICEF aims to fund only non-political organizations, NGO Monitor (published by former Israeli Ambassador to the UN Dore Gold) criticizes the UNICEF-funded "Palestinian Youth Association for Leadership and Rights Activation" (PYALARA), a student-run Palestinian NGO, for what NGO Monitor alleges is its covert political agenda justifying suicide bombings and demonizing Israel.
Edited by bukkake (07/23/05 03:43 PM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome
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Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Understanding Che Guevara - What's The Attraction? [Re: newuser1492]
#4444426 - 07/23/05 07:42 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
cb9fl said: Oh and I guess also because no one makes a good Thomas Jefferson article of clothing and I don't think he would go over to well as a fashion statement.
Personally, I'd like to get this on a T-shirt:
--------------------
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TheCow
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Re: Understanding Che Guevara - What's The Attraction? [Re: bukkake]
#4444797 - 07/23/05 09:36 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bukkake said:
There has been an improvement in literacy and decrease in infant mortality rates, according to data collecting international bodies. Is it bullshit coming from Castro?
You are missing the point entirely. The issue is not how Castro's government turned out. It is how Che Guevara handled himself during the revolution and while he was in Cuba. These are 2 entirely seperate issues so please stop trying to link them. Notice I havent stated my opinion on Che, I am just trying to keep this on track.
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bukkake
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Loc: Classified
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Re: Understanding Che Guevara - What's The Attraction? [Re: TheCow]
#4444958 - 07/23/05 10:26 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheCow said: You are missing the point entirely. The issue is not how Castro's government turned out. It is how Che Guevara handled himself during the revolution and while he was in Cuba. These are 2 entirely seperate issues so please stop trying to link them. Notice I havent stated my opinion on Che, I am just trying to keep this on track.
I'd like to keep this on track too and not bastardize this topic with off-topic nonsense, but I was questioned as to how Che could have possibly helped Castro " liberate " Cuba and it's people. I said Che's heroism and reverence is linked to the liberation of Cuba, which it is. That, and his revolutionary fighting in other countries. Though, he failed there and was eventually captured and killed.
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TheCow
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Re: Understanding Che Guevara - What's The Attraction? [Re: bukkake]
#4445047 - 07/23/05 10:54 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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But I think the question is more about him killing average people. I have no problem if you still like him, but I would just like to know your reasons more in depth, instead of an argument about modern day Cuba or even Castro and his policies.
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Redstorm
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Re: Understanding Che Guevara - What's The Attraction? [Re: Prosgeopax]
#4445100 - 07/23/05 11:07 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Guevara is a murderous pig, and it makes me sick that his face is a modern fashion statement. Perhaps I should start a new fad making t-shirts with Pinochet's or Pol Pot's likenesses on them.
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Vvellum
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Re: Understanding Che Guevara - What's The Attraction? [Re: Prosgeopax]
#4454809 - 07/26/05 08:59 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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go around to any t-shirt shop in the mall or whatever and you'll also see t-shirts of Al Capone and Charles Mansion. People wear these shirts because of the tough, dangerous image - not as a strict endorsement of their actions in life - not because they are big fans of the Mafia or mass murder. People wear the Che image because it is an image of rebellion.
Yes, most who wear the t-shirt are ignorant of his actions and politics - but these people dont really care.
As for Carlos Santanna, he was performing music for the Motorcycle Diaries...
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Phluck
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Re: Understanding Che Guevara - What's The Attraction? [Re: Redstorm]
#4454824 - 07/26/05 09:09 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: Guevara is a murderous pig, and it makes me sick that his face is a modern fashion statement. Perhaps I should start a new fad making t-shirts with Pinochet's or Pol Pot's likenesses on them.
It's a fucking t-shirt. Go ahead, it's not actually going to do anything.
I don't see the point in complaining about people wearing an image they don't even understand. What's the problem? Where's the trouble that's being caused?
Che's image on a shirt that's being sold is wildly disrespectful of what he stood for, I don't see why someone who's opposed to Che wouldn't love the Che t-shirts.
I have a t-shirt where Che's face is replaced with Cornelius from Planet of the Apes. It's from these guys, I think http://www.ssurempirestate.com/index2.html
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: Understanding Che Guevara - What's The Attraction? [Re: Vvellum]
#4454912 - 07/26/05 09:43 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bi0 said: go around to any t-shirt shop in the mall or whatever and you'll also see t-shirts of Al Capone and Charles Mansion. People wear these shirts because of the tough, dangerous image - not as a strict endorsement of their actions in life - not because they are big fans of the Mafia or mass murder. People wear the Che image because it is an image of rebellion.
Yes, most who wear the t-shirt are ignorant of his actions and politics - but these people dont really care.
As for Carlos Santanna, he was performing music for the Motorcycle Diaries...
Well said.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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