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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Potent Fascism
    #4439144 - 07/22/05 07:03 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I am starting this thread so that we might put some focus on The Patriot Act and some of its ramifications, and that of the entire situation and government responsible for this. I'd like to discuss this and how it will effect our lives and our personal freedoms, our very lives. I personally feel that this terrible situation is the result of ignorance and the state of unawareness that is exhibited by the average person.

Who here knows what the Patriot Act is? Who here knows what is contained within it, what powers it gives the American government? Is the heart of what the Patriot Act is actually addressed in the media? I'm looking for people's views on this.

Consider this, taken from this  link , For example, there are provisions which now authorize what are called ?sneak and peek? search warrants. They authorize law enforcement agents to come to your premises when you?re not present, to make a surreptitious entry into the premises, to search the premises, take photographs, to remove objects and then to depart without your ever knowing they were there. And that statute is not limited to terrorism or terrorist offenses. It can be used for any federal crime, including federal misdemeanors. I think that?s a classic example of the overkill in this statute..

It is also interesting to note that this above statue is permanent. Not limited to terrorism, not subjected to a sunset clause... completely permanent. I am curious as to the amount of marijuana and other drug users that frequent and are associated with this website, an obvious target for the government... what will they find when they enter your home when you are not around?

How open and receptive are you to the idea that every single square inch of the space that you frequent, be it your own, private home, your work place, etc. etc. can be monitored with both audio and visual devices? That computer technology with advanced pattern-recognition mechanisms will detect anything that the government wishes to find, to whatever end they wish? Does something like this sound unrealistic to you? Does it sound like something that would be impossible for the government to install?

The more control the government can exercise in our lives, the more and more difficult it becomes to resist it. We can already be detained without any charges or access to a court system.... Awareness and action are the only steps to avoid what will inevitably come as a result of all of this... Do you agree with me on all of this? Part of this? I am looking forward to discussing this. :thumbup:

I'll close up with another quote from the aforementioned link: In 1942, eight Nazi saboteurs landed in the United States in Nazi submarines to engage in espionage. They were tried by military tribunal, sentenced to death and executed in 1942. We were dealing with Nazis, from a country with whom we were formally at war, and yet no one denied that they had the right to have an attorney, that they had the right to have access to the courts. And yet now, when we don?t even have a declaration of war, the United States government is claiming and exercising the power to arrest American citizens without charges and to hold them secretly and indefinitely without counsel and without access to the courts. In other words, I think that the USA Patriot Act is being used to justify things which cannot be legally justified.  :nonono:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Potent Fascism [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4439164 - 07/22/05 07:07 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I'm suprized they didn't give you number plates on your ears


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Potent Fascism [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4439214 - 07/22/05 07:21 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think that what you describe will take such an unconcealed form; however, I fully expect a national identification card that will be completely linked to the monetary system, service accounts, etc. etc. We will essentially have a barcode that will be present in all of our live's activites and transactions. :laugh: :thumbup:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblemoog
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Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
Re: Potent Fascism [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4439285 - 07/22/05 07:35 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I remember a couple months back someone posted an article in the Politics forum that said something like, out of about 300 documented uses of the Patriot Act since it's passing, only 4 (or some other ridiculously small number) were cases dealing with suspected terrorists.

I actually just had a short discussion about this with my father this evening. He's a Republican but I wasn't sure about his position on this sort of thing until tonight. He's in favor of the Patriot Act as well as the random searches that have been going on lately. This made me think. There are a lot of people who genuinely want the Patriot Act and more security, even knowing the full scope of the power it gives to the government. There are a lot of people who would rather have safety (or rather, the feeling of safety, as no one is ever truely safe) over privacy or liberty.

I don't understand those kind of people at all, though I would like to. That kind of thinking seems to stem from people who constantly need to feel in control. I think that, since they can't control these bombings and things that are going on, they give the control over to people who they think can control it. But in reality, it's a lose-lose situation. Terrorism is not going to go away because of tighter security, and the privacy and freedom that they give, are not going to come back. Governments tend to act by that phrase, "give them an inch and they'll take twelve."


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Potent Fascism [Re: moog]
    #4439479 - 07/22/05 08:41 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not a Christian, but this is why Jesus said if you want to follow me you must leave your family behind. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Potent Fascism [Re: Icelander]
    #4439504 - 07/22/05 08:51 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'm not a Christian, but this is why Jesus said if you want to follow me you must leave your family behind. :mushroom2:




yea, as long as you have a family, you can not risk anything or give up anything.

If you are a lone, it doesn't matter if you end up in jail or dead because you are not responsible for any children that can't take care of themselfs.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Potent Fascism [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4439592 - 07/22/05 09:19 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I think what he meant is more along the lines of your family may hinder your going on your path. Ever notice how many people don't like their parents or have no beliefs in common, and yet feel obligated to them. Why? This is what he was talking about.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Potent Fascism [Re: Icelander]
    #4439606 - 07/22/05 09:24 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I was not responding to him, I was responding to those words of Jesus, that's all, I didn't even read his post in full


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Potent Fascism [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4439727 - 07/22/05 09:47 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

That's what I was talking about , what Jesus meant. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Potent Fascism [Re: Icelander]
    #4439953 - 07/22/05 10:21 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

oh...

well probably that too, but I think the main meaning is about being attached to your past, to posessions, to people etc.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Potent Fascism [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4440040 - 07/22/05 10:42 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah. that's what I'm sayin.  We're on the same page.  :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Potent Fascism [Re: Icelander]
    #4441829 - 07/23/05 08:23 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Great then. It is indeed good to se that you have not filtered yourself from some nice words that came from Jesus just because of all your troubles with church


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Potent Fascism [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4441900 - 07/23/05 09:28 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

My problem was never with what Jesus said. My disagreements stem from the actions of most Christians and the Church.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Potent Fascism [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4441972 - 07/23/05 10:13 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Complete safety is only gained by the absolute loss of freedom. As long, as this wont happen until the arrival of god, this concept of absolute safety is a illusion to enforce mans control over people.
Yes, that is a kind of fascism, in Nazi-Germany it started similar.
Obviously, the problem is, that terrorism existed forever and it will be more violent, the more restrictive the government will be. The men behind Bush know that very well and misuse this fact for gaining more and more power by totally cheating and lying to the citizens.

Be aware !

(The ones who feed fear to the population are called terrorists.)


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Potent Fascism [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4446242 - 07/24/05 10:19 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Obviously, the problem is, that terrorism existed forever and it will be more violent, the more restrictive the government will be. 




So you mean that it might someday actually be responsible for more deaths than common medicines? :shocked:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Potent Fascism [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4446247 - 07/24/05 10:22 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

You can parallel the US to a collapsing Rome and a fascist Germany at the same time. We're spiralling out of control. But thats ok, its necessary.

I really dont think our fascism will be our demise. Rather it will be the ever increasing energy demands that very large nations need and will have to conquer for.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



Edited by psyka (07/24/05 10:26 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Potent Fascism [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4446328 - 07/24/05 11:34 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Obviously, the problem is, that terrorism existed forever and it will be more violent, the more restrictive the government will be. 




So you mean that it might someday actually be responsible for more deaths than common medicines? :shocked:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




Only mushroom cloud war could pull that off. :frown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Potent Fascism [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4446707 - 07/24/05 02:14 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Same problem like medicine.
Our leaders tend to cure the symptom, not the cause. That makes room for the cause to rage.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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