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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
Re: God exists [Re: Deviate]
    #4428796 - 07/20/05 02:41 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
"you can claim something doesnt exist on lack of evidence deviate. "

absense of evidence is not evidence of absense. you simply cannot logically conclude that God doesn't exist based on lack of evidence.




i never said you can conclude, i said you can claim, which you stated you cannot do, when in fact you can make a claim of anything. i can claim that the sun just fell out of the sky, that doesnt mean that i have concluded that claim.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: God exists [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4428805 - 07/20/05 02:43 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

and an ordinary can have friends who experience God and they can describe it to him proving it exists.

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: God exists [Re: Deviate]
    #4428829 - 07/20/05 02:49 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

ok i take that back, i am saying that there is a state of conciousness which when people experience it they often call it God. discussion about whether God exists need to account for this experience because this experience does in fact exist.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: God exists [Re: Deviate]
    #4428830 - 07/20/05 02:49 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
absense of evidence is not evidence of absense. you simply cannot logically conclude that God doesn't exist based on lack of evidence.




So.... considering this that you yourself typed.... how did you conclude that, as the title of your thread declares, that "God exists"? :confused: :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: God exists [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4428838 - 07/20/05 02:51 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"So.... considering this that you yourself typed.... how did you conclude that, as the title of your thread declares, that "God exists"?"

because the state of conciousness which many people interpret as God does exist. i'm saying the claim that God exists is not an empty claim, there is a "thing" which can be experienced which people are calling God. this thing is what needs to be investigated.

Edited by Deviate (07/20/05 02:52 PM)

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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: God exists [Re: Deviate]
    #4428848 - 07/20/05 02:52 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

To prove something exists, you have to observe it and then describe it, then define it.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.


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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: God exists [Re: Deviate]
    #4428850 - 07/20/05 02:52 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

well youve got me there, but why wouldnt god let everyone know that "it" is here, why would "it" let us fight as we do? commit sin as we do? why would an almighty being that has control of everything in existance let man fight wars and crusades in "its" name? why would this being be so cruel to let "its" own creations be born with disease, disfigurement and every other problem that man has??? you would think if "it loved us as much as it claims to it wouldnt let us suffer the way it does. and i think i can possibly prove that this "god" doesnt exist....... if there is in fact a single god then why was the early religions ALL polytheistic? monotheism didnt come until about 4000bc(i dont know the exact date), we now know that polytheism has been around for almost 10,000 years, way before "god" created us and the earth.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: God exists [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4428860 - 07/20/05 02:54 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"To prove something exists, you have to observe it and then describe it, then define it.
"

i observed God and defined it as a state of pure awareness.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: God exists [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4428864 - 07/20/05 02:55 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

leftysurprise said:
true but that blind man has friends that can look right at the sky and tell him that it does in fact exist, and they can accurately describe it to him. proving to him that it does exist.

and i take it you have read the book specter? what do you think of it? and have you read more than just the first installment?




but what if everyone were blind?


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: God exists [Re: Deviate]
    #4428880 - 07/20/05 02:59 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
"So.... considering this that you yourself typed.... how did you conclude that, as the title of your thread declares, that "God exists"?"

because the state of conciousness which many people interpret as God does exist. i'm saying the claim that God exists is not an empty claim, there is a "thing" which can be experienced which people are calling God. this thing is what needs to be investigated.




everyone knows that when something dies or ceases to exist its energy or lifeforce, whatever you wanna call it is just shifted somewhere else, whose to say that this "god isnt just the universal energy that makes everything tick. i think that in this day and age its pointless to believe in the age old "god" that religion makes him out to be. and my question has always been(ever since sunday school) how can we be fashioned in the likeness of god when god has no form? even christians disagree on this, some say god has no form and others say god is a male. and then we come to the question of well there is only one god, so how do you get 7 races out of one likeness?? theres just too many variables to lead me to even slightly believe in a single god.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: God exists [Re: Deviate]
    #4428881 - 07/20/05 02:59 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"well youve got me there, but why wouldnt god let everyone know that "it" is here, why would "it" let us fight as we do? commit sin as we do? why would an almighty being that has control of everything in existance let man fight wars and crusades in "its" name? why would this being be so cruel to let "its" own creations be born with disease, disfigurement and every other problem that man has??? you would think if "it loved us as much as it claims to it wouldnt let us suffer the way it does. and i think i can possibly prove that this "god" doesnt exist....... if there is in fact a single god then why was the early religions ALL polytheistic? monotheism didnt come until about 4000bc(i dont know the exact date), we now know that polytheism has been around for almost 10,000 years, way before "god" created us and the earth."

these questions lie beyond the scope of this thread. i'm trying to discuss the mystic experience which some people call God. there are many spiritual teachings which deal with questions like yours so i suggest you seek them there, you might be able to find explanations at sites like this http://www.askrealjesus.com

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: God exists [Re: Deviate]
    #4428901 - 07/20/05 03:02 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"everyone knows that when something dies or ceases to exist its energy or lifeforce, whatever you wanna call it is just shifted somewhere else, whose to say that this "god isnt just the universal energy that makes everything tick. i think that in this day and age its pointless to believe in the age old "god" that religion makes him out to be. and my question has always been(ever since sunday school) how can we be fashioned in the likeness of god when god has no form? even christians disagree on this, some say god has no form and others say god is a male. and then we come to the question of well there is only one god, so how do you get 7 races out of one likeness?? theres just too many variables to lead me to even slightly believe in a single god. "

God is the universal energy that makes everything tick, i'm saying we need a modern concept of God and we can start by investigating the mytic experiences that lead to the formation of religions. as for what is meant by us being created in God's image, it means that humans have the ability to imagine things and than actually create them just like God. no other species of animal on earth possesis the creative power of humans.

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: God exists [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4428902 - 07/20/05 03:03 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

hmmm..... if everyone were blind i doubt we would have survived as long as we have lol..... thats the first time i havent had an answer for something specter..... i guess if we were all blind then we wouldnt know the sky existed.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: God exists [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4428923 - 07/20/05 03:08 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

yes, and that means there could be a whole bunch of things that avoid all our senses and all our instruments


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: God exists [Re: Deviate]
    #4428926 - 07/20/05 03:09 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
God is the universal energy that makes everything tick, i'm saying we need a modern concept of God and we can start by investigating the mytic experiences that lead to the formation of religions. as for what is meant by us being created in God's image, it means that humans have the ability to imagine things and than actually create them just like God. no other species of animal on earth possesis the creative power of humans.




then the "god" we are arguing does not exist, a UNIVERSAL ENERGY exists, which is not at all what religion claims, religion personifies god and makes him mortal yet not mortal. i am simply arguing the fact that the age old white bearded god of christianity and catholicsism does not exist, i never denied the existence of a energy or lifeforce, i just dont think that theres a god sittinig up in heaven watching over his children, if anything "god" is an energy that is all around us that we cannot see or smell or touch(most of the time), i feel that this energy does not watch over anyone or anything, it does not discriminate who dies and who lives and who is born.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: God exists [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4428968 - 07/20/05 03:21 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

A universal God, a God of " Energy" can not be proven any easier than a Old man in the sky.

The proof of God is to be found in each individuals experiences and beliefs.

We can debate and discuss this point till the cows come home. But unless God himself starts posting and we all know it's God. Well then round and round it goes

Love this place I really do. The over and over thing can make you reaffirm your beliefs or consider changing them. But one thing is for certain.....No one can remain the same if you spend enough time in here


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: God exists [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4428982 - 07/20/05 03:24 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"then the "god" we are arguing does not exist, a UNIVERSAL ENERGY exists, which is not at all what religion claims, religion personifies god and makes him mortal yet not mortal. i am simply arguing the fact that the age old white bearded god of christianity and catholicsism does not exist, i never denied the existence of a energy or lifeforce, i just dont think that theres a god sittinig up in heaven watching over his children, if anything "god" is an energy that is all around us that we cannot see or smell or touch(most of the time), i feel that this energy does not watch over anyone or anything, it does not discriminate who dies and who lives and who is born. "

but that God is the God of religion, it is the God that jesus spoke of. God has a personal aspect and an inpersonal aspect, it's not the mystics fault if their followers have personified God to the point of an old man with a beard. i also agree that God does not change the laws of the physical universe. what i am saying is that rather than saying God doesn't exist, we need to modernize our concept of God.

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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: God exists [Re: Deviate]
    #4429012 - 07/20/05 03:30 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

To modernize our concept ?

Isn't that the same as making a shoe fit when it isn't even a shoe ?

What would be the point to reinvent God ? There would still be 200 people at the shroomery to say that can't be right  :lol:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: God exists [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4429015 - 07/20/05 03:31 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
A universal God, a God of " Energy" can not be proven any easier than a Old man in the sky.




correct, it cannot be proven, but it is much more believeable than an old man in the sky who supposedly loves ALL his children. and to me the energy is much more believeable just for the simple fact that we know the planet is billions of years old. honestly after learning as much as we have in science now and days i dont see how anyone can believe in the old man in the sky, take dinosaurs for example, and all of the other fossils that man has found, and is still finding, there is no mention of this in the bible.

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:Love this place I really do. The over and over thing can make you reaffirm your beliefs or consider changing them. But one thing is for certain.....No one can remain the same if you spend enough time in here




very true, i enjoy arguing, debating, because no matter how much you know you can always learn something new when debating with people from all over the world.


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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: God exists [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4429027 - 07/20/05 03:35 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

god has been reinvented many times, look at how many bibles and scriptures there are, yet to me, none of them make any sense. besides the old testament, thats the only bible that makes sense to me, which is another reason i do not believe in god, the original bible wasnt what it is now, it was more focused on actual people, actual events that can be traced throughout history, which is why they had to "reinvent" it into the new testament so that the masses would believe in it.... the original bible wasnt really what we call a bible anyway.


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