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OfflineThe_Hobbit
Bilbo Baggins
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Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,382
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
There's only right and wrong
    #4427506 - 07/20/05 11:24 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I was thinking in the shower tonight. I'd like to share my thoughts.

A man and his wife live in their house. The house has old gutters. The paint on the gutters is chipped and it looks unsightly. The wife notices this and asks her husband to paint the gutters. The husband is reluctant. Paint the gutters. That's one more small thing that needs to be done. That's more work that he has to do. The gutters really don't look that bad. So what. The gutters have chipped paint. Nobody notices anyways. Nobody cares. What should he do? Paint the gutters every 5 years so they look perfect? There's lots of better things that he could do. These are just some of the thoughts that cross the man's mind. The question is, should he do it or not? Is he obligated to comply with all of his wifes wishes? Does he really care that she wants this done? The answer is probably not. If it were up to him, the gutters would stay the way they are. Why make a big deal of it?

This is a question of character. To say no simplifies things for the man. To say yes sentences him to labor for a cause that, in his mind, is unworthy. What should he do? The obvious answer to that is: the right thing. And I beleive that the right thing is to paint the gutters. Like I said, this is a question of character. Plain and simple. The man should want to do what is right, regardless of the consequences. You can't look past the fact that the gutters do have chipped paint. It's logical to repaint them. The wife thinks so, anyways. That is the deciding factor. The man should want to do what is right, for himself, because he loves his wife.

A man walks into a diner. He sits down to have dinner after a hard day at work. He sees two men scuffle. He decides to stay out of the way and mind his own business. The men obviously have their own agendas to deal with. Why should he get in their way? He's not one to get into fights. He figures that if they end up fighting, they deserve it. They're the ones who let their emotions get out of control and couldn't use their brain enough to keep things from escalating to this point. He doesn't judge them. He doesn't even think about it. He eats his dinner. One of the men ends up getting stabbed and the fights ends. The man is alright. He goes home, cleans the wound, and stitches himself up. No harm done, really. That's that.

A man walks into a diner. He sits down to have dinner after a hard day at work. He sees two men scuffle. He decides to intervene. He wants to help the men. He wants to fix the situation. They shouldn't be fighting. He does his best to lead things in peaceful direction because he feels that that's the right thing to do. He doesn't judge them. He doesn't think about himself. He acts based on his gut feeling. One of the men pulls a knife and takes a swing at the other. He ends up missing and stabs the intervening man in the throat. The man dies.

This was a rather pointless death, don't you think? He didn't need to intervene. The innocent man whose only aim was to help, dies. There was no intention to kill him. It was an accident. The fact remains. It happened. The man is dead. Why did he die? What was the purpose? These are pointless questions. What matters is the man's intention, not the fact that he died because of it. It's a question of character.

The actions of men, the world, the universe. They're all related. They're a bunch of random happenings, working together to make one big happening that we know as reality. It's all random, really. You can't predict any of it. The man saw an event transpiring and acted on it. His reality clashes with the reality of 2 other men. It didn't have to be that way. The man choosing to intervene is just another random happening.

My point is that you have a choice. You can choose to mesh with reality or not. You can choose to do the right thing or not. The question of purpose is irrelevant. Intention and action are all that matter. You can be a solitary happening in this universe. Keep to yourself. Stay out of harms way. Do what's right for you first and foremost. That makes sense, right? You're here alone. You're part of this huge mess, living on earth among mankind. The world is full of hate, illogical thinking, horror. Men act without regard for fellow man. The only thing that makes sense is anarchy. Sure, we live in societies where most have shelter, food, and whatever else they need to survive. People are, by and large, peaceful with eachother. There's no major wars going on. It's all shiny and beautiful on the surface. Then why do you feel this way? Why do you feel lost and alone? Why do we feel helpless if we are truly together and love eachother? We aren't and we don't. It's not a minority, either. It's the vast majority. We live according the rules and regulations that keep things in a basic order, but we know that it's an illusion. This is clearly demonstrated all around the world, all the time. Pride, envy, gluttony, lust, anger, greed, sloth - the sinful nature of man cannot be disputed. Nobody questions these sins. Nobody questions a man who falls into their trap. Sin is commonplace. It's even acceptable.

A strong character is needed to elevate above the bullshit. You need to know what is right. You need to do what is right. We are what we do. Our actions define us. You have to want to do what's right, for the sake of being right. You have to want it for yourself. Only then can you truly mesh with the reality that surrounds you and effect it in a positive way. The only obstacle to overcome is ourselves. There is one eye that reacts based on what it sees (left for me). There is one eye that reacts based on what it feels (right). One or the other doesn't suffice. You need to use your eyes in unison. You need to breath, think, feel, and act based on what your eyes see. Flow with reality. Life is a song. Follow the rythm. If you don't pay attention, you'll miss a step - guaranteed. Stop walking around in a daze. Don't zone out. Be, every moment. Then you'll see the truth. Painting the gutter isn't so bad. Helping others selflessly is necessary.

Life is fleeting. Don't hold on. It could all be gone, just like that. Accept that you are truly alone, but know that there is something out there for you. You just have to find it. The randomness is the point. It's beautiful. Micheal Andretti said, "If you feel in control, you're not going fast enough." I like that. I like getting out there and being. Don't worry. Know what's right for you. Feel it. Others will know when you do. You can't fool yourself and you can't fool anybody else. Either you feel right or you feel wrong. There's no inbetween.

Now that I've turned this clay into stone, I think I'll go to bed. Thanks for reading.


--------------------
Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.


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Offlineprefloppro
Last Call
Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 440
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: There's only right and wrong [Re: The_Hobbit]
    #4427567 - 07/20/05 11:43 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I really enjoyed that. Sounds like your trip inspired this story. I also learned allot about myself on shrooms and had a bad case of social anxiety, I wouldn't say its completely cured, but I can def. tell you that its not as bad, and is constantly getting better. You write so well, its amazing. Your trip report was very good also. Thanks for the great posts, and keep them up.


Edited by prefloppro (07/20/05 12:00 PM)


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InvisibleAbstractHarmonix
Love is like a train...
Female

Registered: 07/09/04
Posts: 3,509
Loc: The Sea
Re: There's only right and wrong [Re: The_Hobbit]
    #4427606 - 07/20/05 11:57 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

So the character of man individually is what defines right and wrong?

And I disagree.  I believe there is an inbetween, because with every situation, there are pros and cons.  There is a middle ground to why it might have been correct in this instint, but wrong in the next.

but i very much enjoy your read.  Thanks for sharing :smile:


--------------------
A plethora of music aspirations control my temptations of future revelations beyond "now". The percussion, and the heart beat of my love and devotion. The rhythm goes beyond, prying into the third eye, releasing the creativity held so far inside. The melodicies, through the out of tune pianos and broken classical guitars...there lies a beauty. A beauty as prevelent as the fire inside. To release these energies is pure ecstacy, to deveop these gifts is sacred. The vocality, so pure as can be, shying away from herself, lies within me. For the underlying serenitity, this is what I live for. I plea for harmony, and nothing more. Music equals love. Creation of love leads to the procreativity of the World, and it's spirals and puddles prevailing.


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OfflineThe_Hobbit
Bilbo Baggins
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Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,382
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: There's only right and wrong [Re: AbstractHarmonix]
    #4427629 - 07/20/05 12:07 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

XOIIAresIIOX said:
So the character of man individually is what defines right and wrong?



The character of a man will lead him to do what is right or wrong, depending on his intentions.

What defines right and wrong is logic.

Quote:

XOIIAresIIOX said:
And I disagree. I believe there is an inbetween, because with every situation, there are pros and cons. There is a middle ground to why it might have been correct in this instint, but wrong in the next.



All that matters is this instant. And, in this instant, there is only one right way. I don't see any other way to look at it.

I'm glad you enjoyed it.


--------------------
Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: There's only right and wrong [Re: The_Hobbit]
    #4428170 - 07/20/05 02:10 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

So what I got out of your post was this........ Why should I put myself at risk for others ? That all decisions should be based on self and what self needs. That all the problems in the world are a result of sticking your neck out ?

I hope not.

In your first example you talked of a husband being asked to do something for his wife. You gave examples of a few questions that were running thru his mind. But you missed the entire point of marriage. To give all you are despite what you may or may not feel is the best decision for " YOU ". Marriage is all out giving to one another. If my wife asked that of me. I want to please my wife because I love her. Love is putting other before yourself in all respects. The logical fact of rusty gutters needing paint is not even the point. The point is my life partner has asked me to do something to please her. The point of love is to love. To give more than I have. To put others first, especially my wife.


So the end result of your post was there is no in between of Right and wrong. There I agree, all actions and decisions have only a right or wrong answer. But if the " right " answer stems from a deep desire of " Self " then guess what ? You have made the wrong decision. Yes we must make sure we take care of ourselves but never at the cost of others.

The real deal of life is Love and peace. Not self. And...

Self is greedy, needy and lost to " What can I get out of this"


I am not sure I completely understand what you have said.


EDIT.....

You said "All that matters is this instant. And, in this instant, there is only one right way. I don't see any other way to look at it."

WOW this is so far from the reality of life and the interwoven relationships that people build. I must say that this statement you made is about the most selfish thing I have heard. Do you have no desire to plan ? To make sure you are going in the right direction ? What your heart needs and what the needs of others are ?

Do you think that by thinking this way you have released yourself from all responsibilities of your actions on the lives of others ?

It sounds to me that you have found a way to just go through life with no suffering of the path you blaze. Just because you have decided that all that matters is the very second you living in.

I think you are very wrong here friend. The decision you make today can effect you to your last day. The decisions you make today can effect those around you to there last day.




--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Invisiblep4kSouL
Animals Are Cool
Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 3,666
Re: There's only right and wrong [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4428491 - 07/20/05 03:17 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

my opinion- There is no right or wrong, these terms have been made up for creating a path in life. This is why I highly disagree with the bible, "if you do something wrong, you will be punished". I think people need to look at the world in more wider perspective. There is no true "right" and there is no true "wrong", the world is more open then what we create it to be.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: There's only right and wrong [Re: p4kSouL]
    #4428655 - 07/20/05 03:58 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Hum....... The punishment you speak of is not understood. God does not punish anyone despite how the Bible words it. It goes like this

There is you and there is us. If the decisions you make are based on you and only you. Then it is the wrong decision. The right decisions are always based in true Love. It is the fact of true Love that should propel us to live. It is this desire to be Loved and to Love is the bottom line. All we really want is Love. No amount of fame, cash, relationships both personal and business can ever give us the true desire of the human heart. So when the bible speaks of Punishment it speaks of what your life, situation or needs will be like if Love is not the driving force in all you do.

I disagree strongly. This all goes back to throwing all responsibility to each other out the window. Yes, there are right and wrong answers. To say there are not, is to say your not responsible for anything that may happen as a result of your actions.

It is our entire nature as humans to make choices. That is all we do. TO choose this opinion you have made was the right choice for you. You are in hypocrisy of your own statement.

Do you see what I am saying ? We are choice making machines and to believe there are no right or wrong choices is to have made the right choice for you.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflinePowerTrip
Polypharmaceutical Shaman
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 1,148
Loc: The void
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: There's only right and wrong [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4429179 - 07/20/05 06:10 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I thought it was a great post. Being a follower of Buddhism, I can relate to the idea of always living in the "here and now." Nowhere did I see him state that you should make reckless decisions. If you do what is "right" in the now, your karma will unfold and take care of the future. The past is done and the future is yet to be, living in the moment is the only choice we have. Dwelling on possible future outcomes only creates desire in your mind which can lead to suffering when these desires are not fulfilled. It serves no useful purpose.


--------------------
I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life


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Invisiblep4kSouL
Animals Are Cool
Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 3,666
Re: There's only right and wrong [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4429319 - 07/20/05 06:34 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Ah sorry I didn't really mean to blame the bible I just get that impression of "your going to get punished" from many different people. I just don't agree when people try to make "the right decisions" for other people. Example like people saying cursing is a sin, I mean it is disrespectful cursing around specific people but in the true reality words are words, they truly mean NOTHING. That's what bothers me when people try to create other people paths. I'm definitely not saying there is no god, "god must be greater then the greatest of human weaknesses" but what bothers me is when so many people force these right and wrong rules all over me. Sometimes when I'm skating at a skate park or when I'm walking around, a guy will come up and start preaching to me and it really makes me uncomfortable. I think if they truly believed in they're religious believes they wouldn't care about what other people thought, they would love, and if that is what the religion is about why don't they love why is there all this religious war? That's what bothers me, The "right" decision should not be forced on other people while they will have different beleives, thus thats why im saying there is no true "right" and "wrong".


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