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InvisibleautomanM
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Registered: 09/18/03
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Visual BASIC
    #4424678 - 07/19/05 07:44 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

why do i feel drawn to learn this language? Other than it being m$, what are the positive and negative aspects of this?


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No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Visual BASIC [Re: automan]
    #4427088 - 07/20/05 05:54 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Positive = easy to learn
Negative = Not very powerful or even useful
I would recommend you learn C/C++. If you want to start out with something easier, then learn Java.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Visual BASIC [Re: TheCow]
    #4427299 - 07/20/05 09:37 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

> what are the positive and negative aspects of this?

positive... easy to learn, can make windows do more, learn something new
negative... horrid language, teaches bad programming style, teaches bad programming practices, stuck in the microsoft world (non-portable), etc

Knowing what you want to do would help. It is difficult to recommend a language without first knowing what problem is to be solved. I can only think of a few reasons for learning VB over learning another language.

> why do i feel drawn to learn this language?

Because Micro$oft has poured hundreds of millions of dollars into advertising trying to convince us that their buggy software is good and that their monopoly is good too.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Visual BASIC [Re: Seuss]
    #4427317 - 07/20/05 09:48 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> what are the positive and negative aspects of this?

positive... easy to learn, can make windows do more, learn something new
negative... horrid language, teaches bad programming style, teaches bad programming practices, stuck in the microsoft world (non-portable), etc

Knowing what you want to do would help. It is difficult to recommend a language without first knowing what problem is to be solved. I can only think of a few reasons for learning VB over learning another language.

> why do i feel drawn to learn this language?

Because Micro$oft has poured hundreds of millions of dollars into advertising trying to convince us that their buggy software is good and that their monopoly is good too.




seriously, don't learn this crap. it'll turn you into one of those horrible programmers/sysadmins who can't do anything outside of a winblows environment. if you want to learn a real language, learn perl.

(or C++, but i'm much more of a perl man myself.)

and while you're at it, learn to use Linux.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Visual BASIC [Re: Krishna]
    #4428217 - 07/20/05 02:18 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

> if you want to learn a real language, learn perl.

*laugh* perl is worse that VB for learning poor programming style.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Visual BASIC [Re: Seuss]
    #4428300 - 07/20/05 02:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

hehehe, programming "style" yep. i learned C++ years before i learned perl, which taught me convention. some-what. now all the code i write is only read by one other person, and so he and I have come up with our own conventions that we stick to. reading through somebody else's perl code if you don't know them/know their conventions/know what the code is supposed to be doing = fucking insanity. however, once you learn it (and come to understand the motto of "more than one way to do it") things like 1-line if statements are a boon!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Visual BASIC [Re: Krishna]
    #4428533 - 07/20/05 03:26 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Perl is definitely a "write-once read-never" langauge, as is basic. Not that I am bashing perl, I have seen some amazing things written in the language... but as a language to learn how to program, it is certainly not a good choice. This is why I was asking what motivated the original question posted by the author of this thread. Without knowing what he wants to do, it is very difficult to recommend a language to solve his problem.

(I start to get a bit pompus when speaking about programming languages. This is one of the fields (programming languages and compiler theory) of computer science that I consider myself to be an expert. I have literally forgotten more programming languages than most computer scientists know. I have also designed computer langauges and written compilers for several difference languages and architectures. I have also written compiler compiler tools to create lexical analizers (such as what lex/flex does) and parsers (such as what yacc/bison does) for LL(k) and LALR(1) grammars.)

> things like 1-line if statements are a boon!

I agree. One of my all time favorite constructions is:

Code:

minimum_value = (value1 < value2) ? value1 : value2;



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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Visual BASIC [Re: Seuss]
    #4428964 - 07/20/05 05:20 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I enjoy tertiary operators.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Visual BASIC [Re: TheCow]
    #4437060 - 07/22/05 07:39 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

> I enjoy tertiary operators.

They are great for writing compact code, but horrid when people abuse them. I would much rather see a nested if/then/else construction over a nested tertiary conditional operation:

Code:
/* very difficult to understand code, but compact */
a=(value1<value2)?((value3<value4)?x:y):z);

/* why not write it like this, same thing, but easy to understand */
if (value1<value2) {
if (value3<value4)
a=x;
else
a=y;
} else
a=z;



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Offlineprefloppro
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Re: Visual BASIC [Re: Seuss]
    #4437482 - 07/22/05 11:27 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I would suggest if you just getting started to start with visual c++, then move into the linux enviroment once you have a firm grasp of c++. Then learn c#.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Visual BASIC [Re: prefloppro]
    #4437546 - 07/22/05 12:05 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

> visual c++,

Locked into the Microsoft monopoly

> then move into the Linux environment

Too bad you learned in the Microsoft environment... now you get to learn all over again.

> Then learn c#

And back to getting locked into the Microsoft monopoly

Not very sound advise.


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Offlineprefloppro
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Re: Visual BASIC [Re: Seuss]
    #4437585 - 07/22/05 12:30 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Kind of hard getting out of the Microsoft monopoly, so why fight it join it. Windows is not all the bad anyways. And no once you learn in windows it is ten times easier to migrate to Linux, and program their. I suggested Linux because of the use of use when programming. I bet your sitting behind your windows box right now, so dont diss something that you yourself uses or have used. Microsoft may be a big bad corporate nightmare that monopolizes everything, still doesn't change the fact that windows is very use full and used by billions.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Visual BASIC [Re: prefloppro]
    #4438061 - 07/22/05 02:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

prefloppro said:
Kind of hard getting out of the Microsoft monopoly, so why fight it join it.  Windows is not all the bad anyways.  And no once you learn in windows it is ten times easier to migrate to Linux, and program their.  I suggested Linux because of the use of use when programming. I bet your sitting behind your windows box right now, so dont diss something that you yourself uses or have used.  Microsoft may be a big bad corporate nightmare that monopolizes everything, still doesn't change the fact that windows is very use full and used by billions.




:wtf: that makes no sense at all. why not develop in linux, where everything is free, open, and (for the most part) GNU. if some jackasses really want a windows version of whatever you are making, it is easy enough to port it. as opposed to the other-way around, where everything is all closed, jackassed (as an example, C# vs C++), and, simply put, ghey.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Visual BASIC [Re: prefloppro]
    #4438169 - 07/22/05 03:25 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

> I bet your sitting behind your windows box right now

No, I am sitting behind a sun microsystems ultra-5 desktop running solaris 10 right now.  My second computer is an apple 64-bit g4 running OS-X 10.3.9.  My third computer is an intel box dual booting into gentoo linux and windows xp.  The only time I use the XP box is when I am forced to by the lack of non-microsoft applications which is a direct result of the microsoft monopoly.

> once you learn in windows it is ten times easier to migrate to Linux

Ah yes, and once you learn to bake a cake it is ten times easier to build a house...  :rolleyes:

> dont diss something that you yourself uses or have used

How am I supposed to know that something is worth "dissing" if I don't use it first?  I like to base my opinions off of my experiences, not off of some marketing ploy.

> Kind of hard getting out of the Microsoft monopoly

Indeed.  Monopolies are bad for this reason.  However, whatever I can do to help break the monopoloy, I will.  Granted, my part in the fight is small, but it is better than nothing.  Please don't judge me for fighting something that you simply give up and roll over for.

> Microsoft may be a big bad corporate nightmare that monopolizes everything, still doesn't change the fact that windows is very use full and used by billions.

You can kid yourself all you like, but microsoft has done more harm to the computing industry than any other factors combined.  Innovation through Embrace and Destroy.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Visual BASIC [Re: Seuss]
    #4438223 - 07/22/05 03:42 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

heheh, thanks seuss for giving a much clearer and to the point version of my confused response!

(and just for the record, i'm also not sitting behind a windows box - debian here)


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Visual BASIC [Re: Seuss]
    #4438392 - 07/22/05 04:10 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

you seem like you know alot seuss. do you mind if I ask what kind of programming language those mobile sim cards use?


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