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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
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"thou shalt not kill"
    #4424671 - 07/19/05 07:43 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

why give such a vague comandment? since it does not specify any conditions under which is it permissible to kill it must be assumed that it is never permissible. however killing is very much a part of life whether its killing plants for food or killing bacteria to prevent yourself from becomming sick. its very difficult to remain alive without killing in some way or another. because of this people feel they cannot possibly follow the comandment "thou shalt not kill" and they assume there MUST be conditions under which killing is justisfied. the tragedy is that since no such conditions are specified (and no further explanation given) it basically leaves it up to the individual to decide when its ok to kill and because of the relativeness of the human mind, people are able to justify (to themselves) killing in all sorts of situations -- wars, punishment for crimes, self defense, sport (ive known christians that hunted), for food, to develope medicine, ect.. this basically renders the commandment meaningless for the general christian population.


Edited by Deviate (07/19/05 07:46 PM)


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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
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Re: "thou shalt not kill" [Re: Deviate]
    #4424714 - 07/19/05 07:55 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

i wonder if "thou shalt not murder" makes more sense


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,329
Loc: On the Border
Re: "thou shalt not kill" [Re: Deviate]
    #4424741 - 07/19/05 08:01 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

"America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable."
- H. Thompson


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: "thou shalt not kill" [Re: Deviate]
    #4424742 - 07/19/05 08:02 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
why give such a vague comandment? since it does not specify any conditions under which is it permissible to kill it must be assumed that it is never permissible. however killing is very much a part of life whether its killing plants for food or killing bacteria to prevent yourself from becomming sick. its very difficult to remain alive without killing in some way or another. because of this people feel they cannot possibly follow the comandment "thou shalt not kill" and they assume there MUST be conditions under which killing is justisfied. the tragedy is that since no such conditions are specified (and no further explanation given) it basically leaves it up to the individual to decide when its ok to kill and because of the relativeness of the human mind, people are able to justify (to themselves) killing in all sorts of situations -- wars, punishment for crimes, self defense, sport (ive known christians that hunted), for food, to develope medicine, ect.. this basically renders the commandment meaningless for the general christian population.




the commandment goes for killing humans, not for killing animals, so I see no controversy here, it is clear as a day.
If you kill in self defense, you have sined as if you killed in attack.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: "thou shalt not kill" [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4424758 - 07/19/05 08:06 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

well no one ever told me it only went for humans, i suppose it makes sense now.


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Invisiblemoog
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Registered: 02/15/05
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Re: "thou shalt not kill" [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4424938 - 07/19/05 08:57 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Mos--err God forgot to put the word 'humans' in there?


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Registered: 04/07/05
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Re: "thou shalt not kill" [Re: moog]
    #4424950 - 07/19/05 09:00 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

i thought it was supposed to be thou shalt not murder?
for example self defense is okay.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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OfflineDicer
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Registered: 07/14/05
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Re: "thou shalt not kill" [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4425006 - 07/19/05 09:09 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

If someones holding a gun to your head and you have the opportunity to kill them before they kill you, you're supposed to let them do it. So effectively it's suicide meaning either way you're going to hell.


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Invisiblemoog
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Registered: 02/15/05
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Re: "thou shalt not kill" [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4425009 - 07/19/05 09:09 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

careful... you're starting to sound more and more like a Christian. :lol:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: "thou shalt not kill" [Re: moog]
    #4425019 - 07/19/05 09:11 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

moog said:
Mos--err God forgot to put the word 'humans' in there?




it would not make sense. How could humans survive without killing animals or plants?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: "thou shalt not kill" [Re: Dicer]
    #4425044 - 07/19/05 09:16 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dicer said:
If someones holding a gun to your head and you have the opportunity to kill them before they kill you, you're supposed to let them do it. So effectively it's suicide meaning either way you're going to hell.




it is not suicide because you are not the one doing the action.
If someone tells you "don't kill", then it doesn't mean "don't kill unless",otherwise he would say to you "don't kill unless.."

From christian perspective:
You can always try to escape, and if you don't escape and die, this is not a loss because you get to live in kingdom of heaven.

Death is not a negative thing in christianity from a personal point of view (to self) , but killing, not helping to stop killing, killing yourself etc. is a sin.

Survival is a solfed issue in christianity, because life and death don't matter any more. The only reason you have to take care of yourself and live as long as you can is because god toled you.
No reason to stay here longer than needed otherwise, because the purpuse of earthly life to a christian is to prepare yourself for the eternal life anyway.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: "thou shalt not kill" [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4425045 - 07/19/05 09:16 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
i wonder if "thou shalt not murder" makes more sense




then you need to define murder. self defense is not considered murder. Neither are deaths in combat. collateral damage, meaning killing innocent civilians, is not called murder.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: "thou shalt not kill" [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4425119 - 07/19/05 09:32 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
i wonder if "thou shalt not murder" makes more sense




not if you are immortal


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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