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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
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what separates man from beast?
    #4418904 - 07/18/05 02:34 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

some would say it is the opposable thumb. Others would say that its the neocortex.

I myself believe that the factor which separates us from the animals is the Conscious Will.

There are many humans walking this earth who are little more than animals. The chemicals in their brains tell them to want things, and they seek these things without any thought to the consequences to those around them. They are slaves to their own biology. Their behavior is generated by their physicality, and shaped by the circumstances of their environment.

But those who have developed the Will are those who set goals and acheive them through patience and self-sacrifice. They ignore the baser urges of physicality and instead devote their time on earth to the achievement of some etheric ideal, some manifestation of fantasy into reality. Their standards are high, for both themselves and the world around them. These are the people who take nothing and make it something. They endure hardship after hardship, all for the purpose of improving the world. These are the people who have stepped back from the whole drama and realized that life is bigger than the self. These are the people who have seen the triviality of human desires and chosen a path of accomplishment rather than a path of indulgence. These are the people who have realized that there is enough pain and misery in the world, and they don't need to put any more in there. These are the people who have given up their own pleasures in order to make the world a better place for everyone.

And so, if you have developed your will, and have applied it to the cause of change for the better, I salute you, Human. In my mind, it is only these people who have earned the title of Human, and the rest are simply apes with less fur.

Rest assured, Human, that your sacrifices will not go unnoticed, though it may seem that way sometimes. May you cast aside the shackles and ridicule of those hedonist apes, and claim your destiny as kings among men! For Will is truly the instrument of spirit, and spirit shall always rule over the material world.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineKairoAnnunaki
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Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 82
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #4418912 - 07/18/05 02:40 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

... I envy you. Sorry, I'm trying to think of what I can say on both ends but really- that just made perfect sense to me, and how I feel on the inside.


Edited by KairoAnnunaki (07/18/05 02:42 PM)


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #4418969 - 07/18/05 03:03 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
May you cast aside the shackles and ridicule of those hedonist apes




What about Utilitarians?
"Pleasure is the object, duty and the goal of all rational creatures." - Voltaire
Of course, we shouldn't become slaves to our own pleasures... but I don't think there is any more noble cause than the abolishment of suffering and the spreading of happiness.


--------------------
PsyPost - Psychedelic Research


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #4419139 - 07/18/05 03:56 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

what separates man from beast?

A crowbar and a jar of vaseline? :lol:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
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Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #4419230 - 07/18/05 04:09 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Man is a beast. There is no separation. We are surely as much a part of nature as any other animal. We are just smart monkeys.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #4419917 - 07/18/05 06:44 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

conscious will? can you even describe what that mysterious thing might be scientifically and then prove a non-human does not have it?

I don't think so.

and chemicals are not basic to the nature of wants even though swami often declares that it all comes down to chemicals: some hunger is chemical, but not all behaviour is humger, some flight and fight is augmented by adrenaline, but that is an augmentor not a cause.

conditioning and associative thought (same thing) lead up to the personality, and the neocortex give us a bit more cortical real estate to play with in abstracting pattern from what is going on.

the one thing that does make us fairly unique on this planet is the ability to work with abstract patterns or notions.

in a way that is epitomized by this site.


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InvisibleSwami
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Posts: 15,413
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Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4419931 - 07/18/05 06:48 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

the one thing that does make us fairly unique on this planet is the ability to work with abstract patterns or notions.

What really separates us is the ability to deceive ourselves.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4420003 - 07/18/05 07:10 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

What in the world makes you think that chemicals are not basic to the nature of desire?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #4420213 - 07/18/05 08:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

you can have desire without adding chemicals.
any experience via chemical triggers
can be experienced without them.

what is acupuncture?

riddle me that - then we talk chemicals.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: Swami]
    #4420268 - 07/18/05 08:18 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

yes deception is a kind of abstraction from what exists
but deception is a small subset of what we can do with abstract thought.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: Swami]
    #4420306 - 07/18/05 08:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
the one thing that does make us fairly unique on this planet is the ability to work with abstract patterns or notions.

What really separates us is the ability to deceive ourselves.




What really seperates us is the development of the HUGE EGO!  :grin: :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: Icelander]
    #4420324 - 07/18/05 08:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Hmmm...that works for all beasts except cats. My cat has a massive ego, and an entitlement complex to match!


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
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Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: Veritas]
    #4420373 - 07/18/05 08:41 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

My dog chases your cat, to keep it in line. :wink: :heart: :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: Icelander]
    #4420381 - 07/18/05 08:43 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

You guys, keep the naughty stuff at home mm-kay?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Registered: 02/27/01
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Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4420703 - 07/18/05 10:13 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Acupuncture - well it causes the release of endorphins, for starters. But regardless, the building blocks of human experiences are chemical reactions. You can't deny that. Go pull out your own brain and then come back here and tell me how well you're faring at experiencing the world without chemical reactions as the basis of your life.
Do you have any idea how many chemical reactions are required for you to blink your eye, or fall asleep, or read this sentence? Who would you be without the splitting of ATP? You wouldn't be.


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #4420843 - 07/18/05 10:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

"But those who have developed the Will are those who set goals and acheive them through patience and self-sacrifice. They ignore the baser urges of physicality and instead devote their time on earth to the achievement of some etheric ideal, some manifestation of fantasy into reality. Their standards are high, for both themselves and the world around them. These are the people who take nothing and make it something."

:thumbup:  well said


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #4420878 - 07/18/05 11:04 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Beast has one mind. Man has two and can have three.

Beast is a thinker. But beast is bound to instinct nothing more. Eat and make little beasts

Man has instint and man has will. As you have aready said. I beleive man ows this to psychactive plants. (And no I didn't get that from T.M. I knews this long ago.)

SO we are Man beast. Then there is God who can live within. Giving us the third mind. There is the mind that thinks and must make decisions based on what we feel. A beast can not willfully go on a fast but man has the will to starve to death. We have the choice and the will. But what are the best choices for us ? This is where the mind of God comes into th eevolutionary picture. I think God and life are subject to the same things. One being evolution. God and Life (Man) are evloving towards Man god or God man. It is evolution of Life to God or God to life that brought about free will in Man.

I might not have made the best thrust here to put forth my thoughts. Another thread it would seem.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #4421993 - 07/19/05 04:01 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Well said Jay :laugh:


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #4422020 - 07/19/05 04:15 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

In my mind, it is only these people who have earned the title of Human, and the rest are simply apes with less fur.

*Swami sets up appointement for a back waxing*


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Registered: 09/07/04
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Re: what separates man from beast? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #4422055 - 07/19/05 04:33 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Humanimal


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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