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OfflineTraveller
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Registered: 04/13/01
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castaneda
    #441381 - 10/30/01 01:00 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

ok i've read almost all this dudes books, starting with the first and reading them all in sequence. while it is obviously impossible to verify any of the stuff he writes about a lot of it makes sense (a lot of it makes none) and plenty of it has been extremely useful in changing the way I look at things. the first book in particular seems to be an honest account of experiences he could make little or no sense of himself, the second book also seems authentic but as they progress into the fourth fifth and later books the stories become more fantastic and more and more contradictions appear. still they are fantastic stories...

anyway i recently read something in a newspaper talking about narcissistic gurus and how the author had defended castaneda to the last, collecting the articles stating the he was a fraud etc etc and eventually realised the evidence was damning.

Does anyone here know anything about this? any links to any of these damning articles or whatever?


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Anonymous

Re: castaneda [Re: Traveller]
    #441691 - 10/30/01 11:33 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

In reply to:

the second book also seems authentic but as they progress into the fourth fifth and later books the stories become more fantastic and more and more contradictions appear. still they are fantastic stories...





Contradictions make for good stories! Take the Bible for example...


Edited by Anonymous (10/30/01 11:34 AM)


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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
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Re: castaneda [Re: ]
    #441880 - 10/30/01 02:24 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

hey shroomism! i noticed you changed your title to melchizedec... hmm as far as i remember jesus belonged to the melchizedec order... and melchizedec is an archangel, i guess the one that works most with planet earth...
have you read anything by drunvalo melchizedec (flower of life, merkaba, 46 & 2, sacred geometry, indigo children and such?) heh, funny thing is that book was the confirmation for most of my beliefs... and you are the confirmation for that book lol... well, the circle closes once more... or should i say the spiral?

all the light


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Edited by Lozt Soul (10/30/01 02:25 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: castaneda [Re: Traveller]
    #442830 - 10/31/01 07:23 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I don't know if you've ever seen those TLC programs on mummies, but a lanky, angular-faced, curley-haired Bob Brier is the main Egyptologist. Before he went totally into Egyptology, he was a parapsychologist who co-published with JB Rhine at Duke University. Anyway, 27 years ago today - Halloween, 1974- my philosophy professor Bob Brier met with a number of occultists (including Casteneda) at Harry Houdini's grave in NY (as they did every year), and upon his return, Bob told me that there was no Don Juan Matus. By then, there were only 3 books out - the Teachings of Don Juan, A Separate Reality and Journey to Ixtlan (if I'm not mistaken). I e mailed Brier recently after seeing him on TLC. He stil is a man of high integrity, and a man of knowledge, as well as an important mentor of mine. Hope this helps answer your question. Casteneda, drawing from sources in the 70's that I have in my own library (e.g., Man, Myth and Magic series; CW Leadbeater's The Astral Plane), was a master story-teller, a great novelist, and apparently, a fraud. TheTeachings book was supposed to be his doctoral dissertation in Anthropology, but may well have been a total fabrication. He died a couple of years ago.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/31/01 07:24 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: castaneda [Re: In(di)go]
    #442874 - 10/31/01 09:48 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

A Melchizadek is one that has moved through all of the dimensional levels (144 levels) and then come back with most or full knowledge of all that they learned. They are used to heal interdimensional problems.
I know of Drunvalo, and the flower of life, sacred geometry, merkaba, etc. I have read Nothing as well. Starseed>


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OfflineChonger
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Re: castaneda [Re: Traveller]
    #443251 - 10/31/01 04:31 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I just finnished reading "The wheel of time". Its a collection of quotations from Don Juan from 3 of the books. Its really inspiring and makes a lot of sense sometimes.

I still just pick it up and read a random quote and it makes me feel better about things. My friendhas all of the books, i'm probably going to borrow them from him.



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I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than have a frontal lobotomy


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OfflineTraveller
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Re: castaneda [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #443523 - 10/31/01 08:49 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

thank you Markos. that's kind of what i expected, especially after discovering the crap they're feeding people on www.castaneda.com. his name's turned into a goddamn franchise! and they refuse to say how he died, insisting that he completed his journey into infinity or something. anyway he died extremely painfully of liver cancer, according to his doctor. what a guy though those are some amazing stories.


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: castaneda [Re: Traveller]
    #445470 - 11/03/01 07:45 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I am a big fan of Castaneda?s books I came to the debate also if the experiences were real or not I came to the conclusion that I don't care Don Juan's teachings are very deep and touching and I identify with Castaneda?s struggles.
Some of the stuff seems very fantastic, but after doing shrooms my self, hay anything is possible : )
Well any way they are very entertaining and have gems of wisdom all over it's pages.


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OfflineTraveller
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Re: castaneda [Re: LOBO]
    #446003 - 11/03/01 09:16 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

exactly what i think and have thought from the beginning. amazing stuff, even if he was a fraud and it's pure fiction i love those books.


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Offlineoneoverzero
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Re: castaneda [Re: Traveller]
    #447155 - 11/04/01 11:18 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, big fan here of castaneda's use of language. As far as being a fraud... why so much concern? En way recently heard over my university's radio station of a current trend in writing called "fictionalized nonfiction" - which is a style of writing based on highly sensitive nonfictional autobiography that reads like a novel. The style makes use of embelishments, dialog, changes in fact to make it read like fiction. In the radio bit a young woman was able write about something that happened to her she would not want to publish as nonfictional autobiography proper. So she was able to publish a part of her life story in the form of a fictionalized nonfiction. Critics blasted her with questions such as, "So isn't this simply self-service?" I asked my friend (very well read in the classics and poetry) about the question and he answered, "All writing is self-service". I agree as any writing from anybody speaks more of the author than the material itself. Even the masters of Zen art can tell the entire character of a man from a single brushstroke.

So, eh, there was this man named Dr. Demento who lived two houses down from my house in Los Angeles who always was hanging out with the inventer of DNA sequencing. I forgot his name, but he got the nobel prize a couple years ago - a very weird guy I simply could not talk to because he was always tripping on acid in his back yard inventing bizzare stuff talking to God or whatever the hell he was doing. That back yard happened to be between mine and Dr. Demento's. So one night I was trying to sleep and both of these butts are wailing in uncontrollable laughter for now going on three hours in the backyard. I'm thinking NIMBY!!! So I go out there to give them a piece of my mind for my own peace of mind. It turns out they were listening to Stephen Hawking's A Brief History of Time over the stereo out back. I don't get it? What in the hell is so funny these guys have to roll around in the grass at 1:30pm in fits of spasmotic laughter when I'm trying to sleep? Nobel prize indeed! What a fraud.


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: castaneda [Re: Traveller]
    #447451 - 11/05/01 08:23 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Now that I am thinking about it The bible seems to me much more fantastic, than Castanedas books but most people take it as real events (I don't).


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OfflineTraveller
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Re: castaneda [Re: oneoverzero]
    #447957 - 11/05/01 07:19 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I don't understand the revelance of your story, but I like it anyway! thanks.


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Offlineoneoverzero
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Re: castaneda [Re: Traveller]
    #448497 - 11/06/01 01:53 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Well, you're welcome! I don't understand it's relevance either.

And Oh! Kerry Mullis was his name... hmmm... such a long time ago... it's not that I've got a bad memory, I just don't pay attention, or is it a bad memory and do pay attention? I can't remember...


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InvisibleCandyass
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Re: castaneda *DELETED* [Re: oneoverzero]
    #448533 - 11/06/01 02:19 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by Candyass


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Offlineoneoverzero
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Re: castaneda [Re: Candyass]
    #449536 - 11/06/01 11:05 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Hmmm... lemme see if I can remember. Oh yeah... one night about sunset I was out back admiring my shrubberies after watching Monty Pithon's The Holy Grail. And my neighbor, oh Mr. Mullis was punching 3-ring binder holes from his notes on whatever, I couldn't comprehend all the physics and biology stuff he was describing except he said, "Hey man, some chicks are comin' over t'nite, but check out the sky dude!". Suddenly a huge gust of wind swept through our yards and hundreds of punch-holes went flying all over my backyard... even up my nose! even in my mouth! Damn if he couldn't contain his mess and now there's confettii all over my yard! So the young ladies arrive, and Mr. Mullis goes inside with them. Something strange... the sky... he said something about the sky... it's filled with the most unusual clouds I've ever seen... I guess he can predict weather maybe... weird. I'm thinking, I mean, I think I'm thinking I'll admire my shrubberies some more. There's this one shrubbery that I didn't realize... I had pruned into the shape of a dog. I thought, I mean, I was thinking it's amazing how much like a dog it looked like. It was so weird I could almost play with the dog. And the sky was really turning into some kind of enormous storm of oranges, yellows, blacks, blues all swirling like a huricane. So I went inside and watched The Holy Grail again, then fell alseep. How did he know about the sky?


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InvisibleCandyass
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Re: castaneda *DELETED* [Re: oneoverzero]
    #449574 - 11/06/01 11:26 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: castaneda [Re: Candyass]
    #449923 - 11/07/01 07:53 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

The Casteneda serires is a fraud.. Its nothing more than an active Imagination and good writing...

Check out "Academic Opourtunism in the Psychadelic Sixties" by J. Courtny Fikes. This is a bood deadicated to the brilliance of Casteneda and the stoopidity of the sixties hippies who read them..


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GabbaDj

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OfflineTraveller
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Re: castaneda [Re: GabbaDj]
    #450971 - 11/07/01 11:44 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

have you read the books?


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Offline3ptCrown
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Re: castaneda [Re: GabbaDj]
    #451096 - 11/08/01 01:07 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

look castanedas writing is so good that if it was fiction, he could have said it and the book would have as much success and he would be considered one of the best storytellers and would definitely receive more credit than if he claimed the stories are real which he did so he had nothing to gain by lying about if the shit was real or not so i beleive him


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"Nothing lasts. That's one thing I think you learn from life, psychedelics, or just paying attention. Very little lasts." ~ Terrence Mckenna


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: castaneda [Re: Traveller]
    #451616 - 11/08/01 01:28 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Yes I have read the books.. About 5 years ago I read all of them.

Amazon.com says
The publisher, David Christie, millenia@islandnet.com , December 21, 1998
About time someone exposes Castaneda's work as inauthentic!
Dr. Fikes' book presents a convincing case of how anomalistic anthropology passes itself off as mainstream "New Age" thinking, while jeopardizing the bona fide religious practices of Native Americans. This book was instrumental in helping pass a National Legislative Senate Bill ratified by President Bill Clinton on behalf of a quarter million Native Americans. Congratulations Jay, you're one of the few genuine heros of anthropology!

I think the fact that a quarter of a million Native Americans (the verry same which Casteneda studied)petitioned our government to pass a senate bill raising the standards of academic excelence in Anthropology should be proof enough that Casteneda is a fraud.

It was Fikess' book and further review into Castenedas work which got him striped of his Phd. Which he was granted by UCLA in 73. To date Casteneda has nothing more than his books to show for his YEARS of study.. No field notes, no artifacts, no travle logs or reciepts, no immunology reports and most important is the fact that no one has ever met the people he speaks of.

Sory to bust your bubble, I think the series of books are GREAT. But their nothing more than a good immagination...


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG          C8.com                    http://www.beatsopjefiets.com/   


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