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Offlinelonestar2004
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ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training
    #4407404 - 07/15/05 10:24 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training 7/14/2005
By Robert Knight

Group goes to court in California, Kentucky to promote the ?gay? agenda in schools.


The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) is suing school districts in California and Kentucky in an attempt to force them to conduct mandatory homosexual appreciation sessions for students and staff.


In south Los Angeles, the ACLU of Southern California, along with the National Center for Lesbian Rights (NCLR), reached a settlement requiring mandatory attitudinal training at Washington Preparatory High School.


?The training is a model for the state,? said Christine Sun, staff attorney for the ACLU of Southern California, in a press release.


The sessions, according to the NCLR release, include: ?mandatory day-long faculty training on diversity, discrimination and harassment, focused primarily on issues pertaining to actual or perceived sexual orientation and gender identity.?


Some teachers, in discussions with students, reportedly called homosexuals ?sinners,? ?wrong,? ?unholy,? ?not supposed to live like this,? and ?faggot,? according to the ACLU. The training will be conducted by the Anti-Defamation League, which produces materials that castigate Christians and others as bigots for not accepting homosexuality.


Meanwhile, in Kentucky, the ACLU went back to federal court on July 6, claiming that Boyd County High School has not lived up to a 2004 settlement that forced the school to conduct mandatory ?anti-harassment training? focusing on ?sexual orientation and gender identity discrimination.?


After the settlement, which also established a ?gay-straight alliance? club, parents pulled many of the students out of school on days when training sessions were scheduled. The students were given unexcused absences and not required to make up the sessions. The ACLU noted that about half of middle school and high school students attended the mandatory sessions and that an hour-long video dealt with bullying issues in general instead of focusing on ?sexual orientation and gender identity.?


Before the settlement, school officials who had opposed the ?gay? club and the new policy said they would teach students mutual respect without focusing on homosexual issues.


"The ACLU continues to use a law license to bully school districts and harass parents in order to brainwash their kids about the 'normalcy' of homosexuality," said Jan LaRue, Concerned Women for America's chief counsel. "Having them dictate the content of anti-bullying training makes as much sense as having Bill Clinton teach abstinence classes."


In February, the Alliance Defense Fund sued the Boyd County Board of Education over the settlement, contending that it amounted to a First Amendment violation of the rights of students whose faiths tell them that homosexuality is wrong.


Parents, led by the Rev. Tim York, pastor of Heritage Temple Free Will Baptist Church, called the training ?a form of recruitment? for homosexuality, according to the Louisville Courier-Journal. ?They (the ACLU) want to control the district,? York told the newspaper. ?They don?t believe in parental rights.?
http://www.cultureandfamily.org/articledisplay.asp?id=8541




mandatory homosexual appreciation.......................


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4407457 - 07/15/05 11:07 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Gays and their supporters should all move to canada and leave us the hell alone. Gay TV shows are disgusting enough, but to try and brainwash students into a life of sin, that is just plain wrong. Live your gay life, but don't force it on civilized humanity.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4407465 - 07/15/05 11:10 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Public Schools = Government Indoctrination Facilities

Alliance for the Separation of School & State


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4407470 - 07/15/05 11:12 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Public Schools = Government Indoctrination Facilities



Indeed. But as long as they're in the business of indoctrination, I think tolerance is one of the more preferable things they can indoctrinate into people.


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InvisibleGijith
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Silversoul]
    #4407483 - 07/15/05 11:21 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Public Schools = Government Indoctrination Facilities



Indeed.  But as long as they're in the business of indoctrination, I think tolerance is one of the more preferable things they can indoctrinate into people.




:thumbup: as usual

The ACLU is overstepping here, and I worry that they may be blindly pushing some fairly controversial ideas on homosexuality, but it's hard for me complain when an orgainization wants to calm these religious fanatics down.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Silversoul]
    #4407486 - 07/15/05 11:22 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Why don't we just say, "To hell with school" and give the kids a lifetime supply of 'E' and not waste resources and time with the pretense of claiming that they are being educated? The FIRST order of business of schools is to teach children skills they need in order to function as non-dependent members of society, to be self-sufficient. Public schools are failing at this as children graduate from high school and are functionally illiterate. It is laughable that colleges now offer remedial English classes in order to bring high school graduates up to a level of competence in their native tongue. The priority should be EDUCATION.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4407508 - 07/15/05 11:30 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Oh, I definitely agree. Education should be the top priority. But part of being a functional member of society is getting along with others, especially those who might be different from you.


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Silversoul]
    #4407519 - 07/15/05 11:33 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

There are plenty of Down Syndrome sufferers who are happy with everyone, but it doesn't put food on the table, clothe them or provide shelter.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Silversoul]
    #4407598 - 07/15/05 12:08 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

> But part of being a functional member of society is getting along with others, especially those who might be different from you

Then why can they not teach "getting along with others thare are different from you sensitivity training" instead of focusing only on homosexuals.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: daimyo]
    #4407638 - 07/15/05 12:17 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

daimyo said:
Gays and their supporters should all move to canada and leave us the hell alone.  Gay TV shows are disgusting enough, but to try and brainwash students into a life of sin, that is just plain wrong.  Live your gay life, but don't force it on civilized humanity.




so it's wrong for them to force homosexuality on you (how having a tv show with gay people in it forces homosexuality on you is beyond me, but ok), but it's ok for you to force your ideas of what is and is not moral on them? :confused:


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4407654 - 07/15/05 12:25 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Why dont they include sensitivity to Christians who are against homosexuality?

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Silversoul]
    #4407662 - 07/15/05 12:28 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Education should be the top priority.  But part of being a functional member of society is getting along with others, especially those who might be different from you.




:thumbup:

Teaching children, to be tolerant of people with different beliefs, should be part of their education.

Why would anyone, have any real problems with teaching tolerance?

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: niteowl]
    #4407674 - 07/15/05 12:33 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:Why would anyone, have any real problems with teaching tolerance?


Because not everything should be tolerable. Some things should never be tolerated. I do believe that homosexuality should be tolerated, but thats a belief. A belief which many dont hold. Its not the schools job to teach these beliefs.

This seems like its about intolerance to Christians as much as tolerance to gays.

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: DieCommie]
    #4407744 - 07/15/05 12:53 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Because not everything should be tolerable. Some things should never be tolerated.




I'm guessing you're talking about rape and murder, and I would agree.
Being tolerant of peoples lifestyle, should be a part of the American way. We are a mix of different races and cultures. Teaching tolerance (of personal differences) should be done in the schools. Religion is the farthest thing from "tolerant teachings"

Quote:

Its not the schools job to teach these beliefs.




I agree.
It is not the schools job to teach belief systems, just to teach kids to be tolerant of other peoples belief systems.

Quote:

This seems like its about intolerance to Christians as much as tolerance to gays.




I don't see how you can say that.
MANY religions (not just the Christian ones) consider homosexuality to be wrong.

The school is only teaching kids how to have a tolerant attitude to peoples differences. (isn't that a typical Christian theme...tolerance?)

They aren't pushing a "pro-homosexual agenda" like some people believe.
Just an "anti-hate campaign", to help people get along.

Why is that bad?

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: niteowl]
    #4407764 - 07/15/05 01:01 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

You know real fascists when they obscure the true meaning of words - as, in the differnce between tolerance and acceptance.

Tolerance - I cannot use my view of you to punish you, simply for your view - can be mandated by law.

Acceptance - I accept you - cannot be mandated by law.

Tolerance does not require an imposition on how you think, only a restriction on your actions due to how you might think. Acceptance, true acceptance, can only occur in how you think. Any attempt to mandate acceptance is contrary to everything about a free society.

.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: DieCommie]
    #4407769 - 07/15/05 01:02 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

If everyone, including teachers, would just shut up about their "sexuality," then maybe someone would learn to read or do math in a school.

Yep DieCommie

Fisting classes coming to a public school near you, courtesy of the ACLU.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4407789 - 07/15/05 01:09 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
If everyone, including teachers, would just shut up about their "sexuality," then maybe someone would learn to read or do math in a school.





come on, 16 year old kids with raging hormones - do you think it is a better idea to just keep all those emotions closeted up (hehe no pun intended) than it is to actually create an open forum where they can discuss them? education isn't just about reading and mathematics - it is also about coming to understand who you are, what this world is, and where you fit in it...


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4407898 - 07/15/05 01:41 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Insulting a group of people, treating them like shit, and telling them to leave the country is pretty fucked up.

Some teachers, in discussions with students, reportedly called homosexuals ?sinners,? ?wrong,? ?unholy,? ?not supposed to live like this,? and ?faggot,? according to the ACLU. The training will be conducted by the Anti-Defamation League, which produces materials that castigate Christians and others as bigots for not accepting homosexuality.

What if teachers in school talked about how believing in God meant you believed in fairy tales? What if they said that they thought it was stupid and illogical to believe the bible is the word of god?

Personally, I would be opposed to that, but I find that much less offensive than insulting gays. Religion is a belief, something you can choose to avoid. Gay people don't get to choose to be gay, and there's hardly any other people on the planet who claim that they do other that straight people who have a problem with gays.

Of course, when you hear about any kind of public criticism of religion in schools, some conservative group comes out of the woodwork and practically shits itself with moral outrage.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Phluck]
    #4407922 - 07/15/05 01:45 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

IMO
mandatory homosexual appreciation is fucked up.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: daimyo]
    #4408004 - 07/15/05 02:05 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)


Gays and their supporters should all move to canada and leave us the hell alone. Gay TV shows are disgusting enough, but to try and brainwash students into a life of sin, that is just plain wrong. Live your gay life, but don't force it on civilized humanity.


What, do you seriously believe that gay sensitivity training is going to brainwash people gay? What possible evidence could you have that demonstrates that to be true?

That sounds to me like irrational paranoia.

And if you don't like gay TV shows, why don't you change the channel? Nobody is forcing you to watch Will and Grace. The only people who feel it is being forced on them are people who can't handle hearing about gays every now and them. To some people, saying "fuck" is like an assault on their sensibilities, it is forcing language they find disgusting on them. I'm sure you'd agree that these people are uptight and if they can't handle it, they should go fuck themselves.

That's how I feel about people who can't handle hearing about gays. People are free to talk about whatever they like, if you can't handle it, that's your fault.


This past weekend was the pride weekend in my hometown. I was downtown just as a bunch of assholes showed up to protest, this was quite a bit before the parade started. On one side of the street there were a bunch of tough looking, bald biker dudes, wearing a lot of leather and goatees. They had big signs saying "HOMO SEX IS DISGUSTING", quotes from Leviticus, and confederate flags. There were also some very ugly women with them, some were fat, snarly looking beasts, and others were rail thin junkie types. Many of the men and the women were wearing Hell's Angels shirts, or Big Red Machine.

I found a couple things odd:

a) These people didn't look like the most morally upstanding citizens. Scars, missing teeth, and broken noses seemed to suggest a life that involved a good deal of violence, many of them had blotchy red skin from extreme drinking, and a few even had trackmarks on their arms. It seemed to me that for many of them, a little gay sex would pale in comparison to the brutality they'd been involved in.

b) These were some very unattractive people. They felt that they had the right to criticize sexual acts they found disgusting, but there's no way I could have stomached seeing any two of them go at it. I'm straight, and I'd definitely find the sight of any of them naked more disturbing than watching gay porn.

On the other side of the road were people supporting the pride festival. The actual participants in the parade didn't seem to all be there, and I actually got the impression there were more people simply showing support than there were gays. Lots of good looking university girls, various youths on the radical left, and a lot of middle class lesbians standing in amongst them. Friendly librarian types in their 50s and whatnot.

Most people did their best to avoid the anti-gay side of the road. I stood amongst the pro-gay crowd for a little while and took pictures before heading off on my bike ride.

It was nice to see that the anti-gay people were marginal. They didn't even really succeed in getting taunted or jeered at when they marched past the festival area. People would point and laugh, wave, or blow them kisses. Through all their anger they seemed to be having trouble getting anyone to take them seriously.

That's the most comforting thing about all this, anti-gay folks are completely losing. The idea that there is something wrong with being gay is gradually just fading away, no matter how desperately some people cling to their bigotry, the rest of us simply don't feel any need to be bossed around by them.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4408008 - 07/15/05 02:06 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Would you like it better if they called it mandatory homosexual tolerance???

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4408011 - 07/15/05 02:07 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)


IMO
mandatory homosexual appreciation is fucked up.


Ok. Only that's not what's happening. People are being taught not to call other kids "faggots" or to teach kids that homosexuality is a sin. They are still allowed to believe what they want, if they don't want to tell kids that it's okay to be gay, then don't discuss the topic.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4408037 - 07/15/05 02:13 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

From the article:

Quote:

After the settlement, which also established a ?gay-straight alliance? club, parents pulled many of the students out of school on days when training sessions were scheduled. The students were given unexcused absences and not required to make up the sessions. The ACLU noted that about half of middle school and high school students attended the mandatory sessions and that an hour-long video dealt with bullying issues in general instead of focusing on ?sexual orientation and gender identity.?





So kids were allowed to miss the session without having to go back and watch it, and the focus was more on bullying in general? What's the problem then?

The gay-straight alliance is obviously not mandatory, the only kids who join it will be kids who already have that point of view.

It seems like these people don't want the kids to be allowed to make their own decisions about things. Parents who think that they should sheild their kids from different viewpoints in order to control what they believe are not very good parents, in my opinon.

People should be raising their children to actually think, not just blindly believe whatever their parents tell them.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: niteowl]
    #4408039 - 07/15/05 02:14 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Why cant they (children) just be taught to respect others without regard for their orientation ...


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4408043 - 07/15/05 02:15 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Why cant they (children) just be  taught to respect others without regard for their orientation ...




:rofl:

Come on now, let's be serious.

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4408050 - 07/15/05 02:18 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

That's the whole point of the thing. To teach kids to not harass one another, regardless of their sexuality.

Kids getting harassed because of sexuality is an issue, which is why they specifically address it.

Oh, and this is about HIGH SCHOOL. So they aren't exactly children. Courses in high school discuss issues about civil rights and race, they aren't too young to learn about gays.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

Edited by Phluck (07/15/05 02:20 PM)

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Invisibletak
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Phluck]
    #4408355 - 07/15/05 03:35 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I think it is completely out of line for a teacher to make any remark on a kids sexual, or religious beiefs.

I do not think that a sensetivity training is going to do anything though. Most people I know in school are either cool with it, or not. Most of the time, it is based on their upbringing, and a 4 hour video will not replace morals that have been drilled into them since birth.

I think most of the teasing, and whatever else there may be occurs out of the need for power. It isnt because the kid is gay, or because hes got red hair and freckles, or has a speech impediment, it is because kids seek popularity and need to feed their ego. This is most commonly done by putting others down.

I think schools need to start enforcing these thigns. There is no law saying that you are not allowed to go to a private school, it is your right. If you are attending a public school, it is just that, public. Kids should expect to go to school, and learn what they can, depending on budget class sizes, etc(another issue all together) They should NOT be expected to be bullied around, and have their ego's crushed on a daily basis because they do not fit into a certain group.

Schools need to start having zero tollerence rules to this behavior. While you are not required by law to like, or even talk to someone who is gay, you should not be allowed to make remarks in pubic institutions. I think with the expulsion of kids who break these rules, people will learn real quick. Most kids act the way they do to impress, with a majority of their peers at school, and not in their homelife, I think that this would cut down on the problem alot, with only a little amount of problems occuring outside of the school

As far as a teacher or student refering to a homosexual as a "faggot," I think they should be terminated immediately. There is no diffrence between that and calling a black man a "nigger"

It is not violating freedom of speech and opinion, it is general decency. And for assholes who dont believe in standards, and feel its a dog eat dog world, that attitude umtimately catches up to you.

I was talking to someone out of country, and they said that in the US more than anywhere they have been, people look to pick random fights for little to nothing at all.

I agree with this.

It is hard to walk down the street or go to the store without worrying about accidently bumping into someone, or "looking at someone the wrong way."

I think this all starts in the schools. I also think that there should be more creative courses required in schools, where students spent more time interacting with eachother than just listening to the teacher, and writing on paper. People can hold a stereotype in their mind forever if no one breaks it for them. Until people start interacting with these people they judge from afar, they will never learn that they are just like them, only wear a diffrent skin.


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InvisibleGijith
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4408952 - 07/15/05 06:10 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Why cant they (children) just be taught to respect others without regard for their orientation ...




That's all fine and good, but you have teachers telling students that homosexuals are sinners, wrong, unholy, not supposed to live like this, and faggot (according to the ACLU). I mean, it's important that this be checked out to see what kind of context it was in... But, it represents a specific problem - teachers teaching intolerance toward gays. It should be met with a specific response - either let it be, or teach tolerance toward gays. I'm cool with that.

Now, it would definitely be preferable if it was the district school board doing this or the board of a private school... But if I were a parent stuck living in this district, was in the minority opinion on this issue, and didn't have the money to have my children go through private or home schooling, I don't think I'd regret getting the ACLU involved. I would not let my kids go to a school where this was happening without taking action... Actually, maybe I would regret it... I don't know. What is someone to do in that situation?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Seuss]
    #4409293 - 07/15/05 07:51 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> But part of being a functional member of society is getting along with others, especially those who might be different from you

Then why can they not teach "getting along with others thare are different from you sensitivity training" instead of focusing only on homosexuals.



I couldn't agree more. There's no need to dice people into groups. But tolerance is a virtue which should be taught.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Silversoul]
    #4409594 - 07/15/05 09:09 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

What if homosexuals being harassed is a bigger problem than the other groups? Does it not make sense to directly address the most common issue? Does it make sense to pretend that everything is an equally serious issue just so that homosexuality doesn't get special treatment?


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Silversoul]
    #4409677 - 07/15/05 09:24 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

There's no need to dice people into groups. But tolerance is a virtue which should be taught.

Each generation has some social change that they have to deal with. The only time that a group of people needs to be singled out is when there is an imbalance in how we treat people.

In the 60's it was racial tolerance, now it is homosexual tolerance. This intolerance should only last a few years until the civil rights are back in balance.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: niteowl]
    #4411227 - 07/16/05 09:37 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I fail to see how this kind of thing is in the purview of public school responsibility. It's for the parents to teach. Or teach hatred if they wish. Of course, if the little idiots act out then they will be subject to massive sodomy in a lovely prison setting. Now THAT's how you teach tolerance and sensitivity about homosexuality. Just saying.


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OfflineAnisotropic
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Seuss]
    #4411415 - 07/16/05 10:53 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"Then why can they not teach "getting along with others thare are different from you sensitivity training" instead of focusing only on homosexuals. "

No fucking shit.

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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: daimyo]
    #4412864 - 07/16/05 08:32 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

daimyo said:
Gays and their supporters should all move to canada and leave us the hell alone. Gay TV shows are disgusting enough, but to try and brainwash students into a life of sin, that is just plain wrong. Live your gay life, but don't force it on civilized humanity.




If you don't like gay TV, don't watch it.

If you don't like being gay, don't suck dick.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: niteowl]
    #4413391 - 07/16/05 11:13 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Being tolerant of peoples lifestyle, should be a part of the American way. We are a mix of different races and cultures. Teaching tolerance (of personal differences) should be done in the schools. Religion is the farthest thing from "tolerant teachings"





I don't care for the government school agenda in general. I am for gay rights in general, but I don't want kids to be taught about homosexuality in school. I don't think that sexuality needs to be taught on the public dime.

Why not have courses on bestiality? It is part of our culture? People fuck dogs and sheep and horses and such. Why should we look down on those people? Shouldn't we tolerate them, and add that course to the class load? What about prostitution? The world's oldest profession! Certainly you can't claim that is not part of our culture. Why not have some tolerance days for crack whores? Polygamy is part of American culture as well. Teach tolerance!

I sort of got a foot fetish myself. I like a girl with pretty little feet, perfectly pedicured with nice high arches, slender and well developed ankles, dressed in a skirt, pantyhose and fuck me pumps. Don't hate me, have a one day seminar about fuck me pumps.

Quote:


"Public schools teach religion, too-- not a formal, theistic religion, but a set of values and beliefs that constitute a religion in all but name. The present arrangements abridge the religious freedom of parents who do not accept the religion taught by the public schools yet are forced to pay to have their children indoctrinated with it, and to pay still more to have their children escape indoctrination." - Milton Friedman, Free To Choose




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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4413588 - 07/17/05 12:08 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

JesusChrist said:
I don't care for the government school agenda in general.  I am for gay rights in general, but I don't want kids to be taught about homosexuality in school.




They aren't "teaching homosexuality in school".:rolleyes:
High school kids already know about homosexuality....duh
Thats the whole reason behind the "sensitivity training"

Quote:

Why not have courses on bestiality?  It is part of our culture?  People fuck dogs and sheep and horses and such.  Why should we look down on those people?  Shouldn't we tolerate them, and add that course to the class load?  What about prostitution?  The world's oldest profession!  Certainly you can't claim that is not part of our culture.  Why not have some tolerance days for crack whores?  Polygamy is part of American culture as well.




Typical Christian dodge.
Twist things WAY out of proportion to try and get away from the issue at hand.

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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: niteowl]
    #4413658 - 07/17/05 12:24 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:

High school kids already know about homosexuality....duh






Then why teach about it at all?

Quote:

Why not have courses on bestiality? It is part of our culture? People fuck dogs and sheep and horses and such. Why should we look down on those people? Shouldn't we tolerate them, and add that course to the class load? What about prostitution? The world's oldest profession! Certainly you can't claim that is not part of our culture. Why not have some tolerance days for crack whores? Polygamy is part of American culture as well.




Typical Christian dodge.
Twist things WAY out of proportion to try and get away from the issue at hand.




You claim that homosexuality is part of our culture, and so it should be covered in government education. I claim that prositution is part of our culture, and so it should be covered in government education. Who is taking things out of proportion?

I don't participate in homosexual behavior, and I don't care who does. I don't think that it should be a topic for the government to talk our children about. And if some guy wants to fuck sheep, I think he should go ahead. I just don't care to hear about it. If two women want to marry the same guy and share him, that is fine by me, I don't care. If a woman wants to sell her little pussy that is between her and the man renting it. I don't care either way, just leave it off of my kids.

If the government was good at teaching kids to actually read and write, maybe then you could make an argument that they should expand to other ventures. And why shouldn't controversial subjects be kept out of schools? What should students learn about abortion, and who makes that decision? Let's get the government out of the brainwashing industry.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4413696 - 07/17/05 12:35 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Then why teach about it at all?


Please show me where ANYONE said ANYTHING about teaching homosexuality.

You make it sound like the schools are going to hire homosexuals to teach the kids how to be gay.

That is FAR from what they are doing.

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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: niteowl]
    #4413736 - 07/17/05 12:44 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Government Teacher: We need to be sensitive to people that are homosexual.

Student: What do you mean? What is a homosexual?

Pretend that you are the government teacher. Tell me what a homosexual is without "teaching" homosexuality.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: niteowl]
    #4413817 - 07/17/05 01:04 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

schools should focus on knowledge, not other peoples opinions.

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4413903 - 07/17/05 01:41 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

JesusChrist said:
Government Teacher: We need to be sensitive to people that are homosexual.

Student:  What do you mean?  What is a homosexual?

Pretend that you are the government teacher.  Tell me what a homosexual is without "teaching" homosexuality.




I knew what a homosexual was WAY before I reached adolescence, and your trying to "pretend" that kids today have no idea what homosexual means.

:rolleyes:

So telling the student the definition of homosexuality, is the same as teaching homosexuality?








Is telling the student what a Nazi is, the same as teaching them how to be a Nazi?

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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: niteowl]
    #4413928 - 07/17/05 01:52 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I am not doubting that you had knowlege about homosexuality at an early age. That doesn't mean that everyone does. I am not sure at what age I heard about homosexuality. Before I hit puberty, I had no idea about sex in general. I hit puberty at 13. Plenty of high school kids would have legitimate questions.

What if a student asked the question: "What is homosexuality?" "How is it performed?" "Why?"

Why don't you define homosexuality without teaching it. Do you just give a standard definition and expect young people not to ask questions? Now that is really naive. Of course they will have questions. And how do you honestly think a government teacher can "define" one thing without teaching it? Isn't everything they define something that they teach? What is teaching if not defining?


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4413936 - 07/17/05 01:55 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Is telling the student what a Nazi is, the same as teaching them how to be a Nazi?

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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: niteowl]
    #4413947 - 07/17/05 01:58 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Are they teaching "tolerance" for Nazis?

At least you recongnize that to teach about Nazis, or even tolerance for Nazis, you HAVE to teach about what a Nazi is. Just the same as it is to teach about homosexuals, or the tolerance for homosexuals, you have to teach about what a homosexual is.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4413966 - 07/17/05 02:05 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

And what about tolerance for Prostitutes? You claim that is extreme. It is in fact the world's oldest profession by many accounts. Where is the love? Why not teach tolerance for hookers?

I don't understand it. Why wouldn't you teach about prostitution? It is part of our culture, and culture was your catch all for homosexuality. It has been part of every culture that I have ever read of.

Why would you not teach about prostitution and tolerance for prostitutes? Can you give me a sane argument that doesn't conflict with your passionate beliefs with homosexualtiy. I respect that you are so passionate about homosexuality, I just wonder why you give those hookers a bad rap. They perform a public serives, and only as much as the market demands.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4414001 - 07/17/05 02:42 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

You have read WAY more into my posts than what was said....

I respect that you are so passionate about homosexuality, I just wonder why you give those hookers a bad rap

I never mentioned hookers...you did...in an attempt to derail the subject at hand.

We aren't talking about tolerance of prostitutes, we are talking about tolerance of homosexuals.

Kids aren't likely to beat the shit out of a prostitute.
They are very likely to beat the shit out of someone they believe to be gay.



Why is that?




Oh...wait, I remember now......the bible said it was bad.....that makes it OK to beat the shit out of people because the bible said they were bad.


This is the attitude that the ACLU is trying to change.
They aren't trying to promote the homosexual lifestyle.
They are just trying to teach our kids how to get along and not fight.

Please, try to see this for what it is, and not twist it into something that it isn't.


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Offlineduster
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: niteowl]
    #4432128 - 07/21/05 04:52 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
You have read WAY more into my posts than what was said....

I respect that you are so passionate about homosexuality, I just wonder why you give those hookers a bad rap

I never mentioned hookers...you did...in an attempt to derail the subject at hand.

We aren't talking about tolerance of prostitutes, we are talking about tolerance of homosexuals.

Kids aren't likely to beat the shit out of a prostitute.
They are very likely to beat the shit out of someone they believe to be gay.



Why is that?




Oh...wait, I remember now......the bible said it was bad.....that makes it OK to beat the shit out of people because the bible said they were bad.


This is the attitude that the ACLU is trying to change.
They aren't trying to promote the homosexual lifestyle.
They are just trying to teach our kids how to get along and not fight.

Please, try to see this for what it is, and not twist it into something that it isn't.




well saiid.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Grav]
    #4432176 - 07/21/05 06:00 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
schools should focus on knowledge, not other peoples opinions.




Well said.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: niteowl]
    #4432186 - 07/21/05 06:12 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:

Kids aren't likely to beat the shit out of a prostitute.
They are very likely to beat the shit out of someone they believe to be gay.



Why is that?





I don't believe your premise. I don't believe that kids in general are "very likely" to beat the shit out of someone who is gay.

I am 36 years old. I went through school without seeing or hearing of one incidence where a person got beat up because they were gay. Even after my school years, I have never seen an act of violence against a gay person. That is just my personal experience. I grew up living next to a gay couple. Very successful, nice house, big parties, no violence. I currently live next to a gay couple. Very successful, nice house, big parties, no violence. I have rented apartments to several gay people (4). No violence that I know of.

Anyone that assaults another person should be charged with a crime. We should teach our children that assault is wrong, not that assaulting a gay person is wrong. Sexuality should not be taught to our children by the government.

Quote:



Oh...wait, I remember now......the bible said it was bad.....that makes it OK to beat the shit out of people because the bible said they were bad.





When people assualt gay or straight people around our country, I highly doubt that they are doing it because of the Bible. The people doing the assaulting are criminals, and I don't think that the Bible advocates assualting gay people. I was Jesuit educated myself. The message at my religious school was "hate the sin, not the sinner." You can blame religion for this countries problems if you want to, but I think overall people of faith are a tremendous benefit to this country.


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Offlineduster
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4432227 - 07/21/05 06:46 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

theres things i agree and disagree on with you jesus.. you were a false prophet anyways whos morals have been so twisted overtime that you are now worthless so please dont resurrect :wink:


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4432551 - 07/21/05 09:18 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Group goes to court in California, Kentucky to promote the ?gay? agenda in schools.




That first sentence of the article alone tells you that you're going to get trolled against the evil ACLU.

Quote:

in an attempt to force them to conduct mandatory homosexual appreciation sessions




Troll, troll, troll

Quote:

the Anti-Defamation League, which produces materials that castigate Christians and others as bigots for not accepting homosexuality.




Is this a Swedish article? Trolls everywhere.

Quote:

the ?gay? club




:rolleyes:
Troll?

Culture and family dot-org.
I happen to know that "family" is a code word christians use for their anti-homosexual agenda.
After all homosexuals are the natural enemy of families, especially those born in families.

*sigh* threads like this are interesting from a moderator's perspective to see which members truly debate and which are out to troll. If you see a few of those patterns emerge.

But as for the debate:

Prostitution is a profession, not inherent to the core of somebody's identity. You can be a president's wife one day and a whore the other. And yes its high time prostitution was elevated in the public view to the level of a respectable profession. A good prostitute can bring calm and tranquility to a person who's very upset just like a threapist can, and that person's social circle is often positively affected by this person's relief.

But the subject isnt prostitution.

"Black history month"
Why don't you just INTEGRATE those things throughout the year instead of fencing it in into calender-reservations like you people did with the Native Americans? If you say "black history month" or "next week we're going gay" you are saying it is out of the ordinary, being the rest of the year. It's almost like saying: "we have to teach you this stuff we don't believe in ourselves" and perhaps this is so.

Kids ought to be taught in school AND at home how to function successfully in society. Even on the office it's important that you are socially openminded. If you go n*gger this and f*ggot that and act like a jerk where you work you are decreasing the health of your company and personally your chance of promotion diminishes.

Parents generally fail miserably at teaching these values. Schools should offer help in this. "Society Skills Class", learning to get along even if the other is very different from you and the things you feel comfortable with.

No need for a seperate "minority day", it should be "minority year" every year, meaning that minorities can be themselves without bigotry being inflicted on them. If society becomes self-correcting then the government can take a step back.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Asante]
    #4433036 - 07/21/05 11:14 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Wiccan_Seeker said

*sigh* threads like this are interesting from a moderator's perspective to see which members truly debate and which are out to troll. If you see a few of those patterns emerge.



yes the article has a slant, but IMO the debate is interesting.


For example I try and focus on the debate and not who is a "TROLL".


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4433061 - 07/21/05 11:21 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

JesusChrist said:
I don't believe your premise. I don't believe that kids in general are "very likely" to beat the shit out of someone who is gay.

I am 36 years old. I went through school without seeing or hearing of one incidence where a person got beat up because they were gay. Even after my school years, I have never seen an act of violence against a gay person. That is just my personal experience.




You must have come from a large urban area.
Where I'm from (the Bible Belt) gay bashing is very common in school.
Even if a person doesn't physically beat them, they are encouraged to verbally beat them.


Quote:

I grew up living next to a gay couple. Very successful, nice house, big parties, no violence. I currently live next to a gay couple. Very successful, nice house, big parties, no violence. I have rented apartments to several gay people (4). No violence that I know of.




We were talking about abuse in HIGH SCHOOL.

Quote:

When people assualt gay or straight people around our country, I highly doubt that they are doing it because of the Bible.




Really.....hmm.
Then where does this "dis-like" of gay people originate from?

The Romans were cool with it......so saying it is "human nature" to "dis-like" gay people is obviously not true.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: niteowl]
    #4433120 - 07/21/05 11:42 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Didn't the Romans come up with the Sodom and Gomorrah story?


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America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4433187 - 07/21/05 11:57 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

They had some interesting sporting events.


--------------------
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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4433206 - 07/21/05 12:02 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

ha, but was homosexuality accepted throughout history until jesus came around?


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4433211 - 07/21/05 12:03 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Didn't the Romans come up with the Sodom and Gomorrah story?




I don't believe so.

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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Redstorm]
    #4433243 - 07/21/05 12:11 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I should not have been stoned before school each morning. I cant remember the Gomorrah story but i thought some roman priest came up with it.


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We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4433250 - 07/21/05 12:13 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I believe it's in the Old Testament, so I would imagine it was Jewish-based. I could very well be wrong though.

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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4433276 - 07/21/05 12:20 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I think acceptance of homosexuality varies from culture to culture (and of course from individual to individual). In my experience women tend to be more accepting of it than men. This has never made sense to me because I have always thought that the more homosexual men there are, the less competition for sex with women there would be.

I also think that many people on the left confuse acceptance with thinking something is normal or right. If you don't like homosexuals, they immediate label you a homophobe. If a leftist doesn't like Christians, of course, he is not considered a Christianphobe but an enlightened leftist. You can be accepting of someone else's life choices or nature, that doesn't mean that you have to like them or hang out with them. I believe that people should be freely allowed to associate or disassociate with others however they damn well please, without being disparaged by others because of their preferences. In other words, to each his own.


--------------------
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Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4433338 - 07/21/05 12:34 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

good point and well taken here.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: niteowl]
    #4433450 - 07/21/05 12:53 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
The Romans were cool with it......so saying it is "human nature" to "dis-like" gay people is obviously not true.




The Romans were cool with homosexual pedophilia too! It must not be against human nature to ?dis-like? pedophilia. The Romans were cool with lots of things. We still have problems today with homosexual pedophilia, but at least it isn't socially accepted, let alone taught in government schools.

I have nothing against gays. If you want to pound some guy?s ass go ahead. Just don't tell me about it, and don't demand that the government teach my kids about it.

Try as you might, you can't take the "sexuality" out of homosexuality. I have had roommates that were men, but we didn't qualify as homosexuals. Most of my best friends and closest confidents are men, and I love them, but that love doesn't qualify me as being a homosexual. To be a homosexual, you have to have sexual relations with someone of the same sex. No way around that. Let me restate that: By definition, there is no way around that fact.

Homosexuals like to take a man?s penis into their mouth or anal sphincter, or conversely, they like to do this to other men. Now this is fine and nice for them, and I say let them have at it. What the hell, get out the gerbils! I don?t care. They can go to the bathhouses and stick their asses up in the air next to the obligatory can of Crisco, and I won?t protest. I just don?t want to hear about it, and I don?t want the government teaching my children about deviant and socially aberrant sexual behavior and telling them that it is acceptable.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4433574 - 07/21/05 01:24 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I just don?t want to hear about it, and I don?t want the government teaching my children about deviant and socially aberrant sexual behavior and telling them that it is acceptable.

I don't want ugly people to be allowed to walk around holding hands with their fat hideous wives either, but I'm not so arrogant that I think its okay to stop them.

If hearing about gay people bothers you, that's your problem, not theirs.

What is wrong with deviance, anyways? I don't understand how people get offended by things just because they don't fit into what is perfectly normal.

Obviously it bothers you, but I really don't give a fuck, I'm far more concerned with kids not getting beat or mistreated to the point of selfhatred, or crippling depression than things that make you squirm.


--------------------
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Phluck]
    #4433600 - 07/21/05 01:32 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
I don?t want the government teaching my children about deviant and socially aberrant sexual behavior and telling them that it is acceptable.

I don't want ugly people to be allowed to walk around holding hands with their fat hideous wives either, but I'm not so arrogant that I think its okay to stop them.

If hearing about gay people bothers you, that's your problem, not theirs.

What is wrong with deviance, anyways? I don't understand how people get offended by things just because they don't fit into what is perfectly normal.

Obviously it bothers you, but I really don't give a fuck, I'm far more concerned with kids not getting beat or mistreated to the point of selfhatred, or crippling depression than things that make you squirm.




I am not trying to stop gay people. Let them do whatever they want to do. Let people be free. I don't care. I have nothing against gay people.

The focus of this conversation is about what the government should be teaching to children in government schools. In my eyes that is much different than what private citizens should be allowed to do in their own homes.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4433867 - 07/21/05 02:37 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

What are they teaching the kids that's so bad? It's not like they're teaching them to be gay, they're teaching them that it's not okay to taunt and abuse people who are gay. That seems like common decency to me.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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InvisibleAsante
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4434066 - 07/21/05 03:23 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Romans were cool with homosexual pedophilia too!




There is no such thing as homosexual pedophilia. Pedophilia by definition is not heterosexual nor homosexual.
Funny associations you have.

Quote:

If you want to pound some guy?s ass go ahead.




Quote:

They can go to the bathhouses and stick their asses up in the air next to the obligatory can of Crisco, and I won?t protest.




Funny associations you have.

You are born gay, or straight so nobody can be turned gay. If you think you can be made gay then you are bisexual or so deep in the closet you can't find the door.

It is better that highschool kids can have their questions answered by someone who knows what's what than do guesswork based on a homophobic culture.

And it's not even that it's general tolerance that's the real issue.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4434082 - 07/21/05 03:27 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Didn't the Romans come up with the Sodom and Gomorrah story?



Please tell me you're joking.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Asante]
    #4434128 - 07/21/05 03:37 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
There is no such thing as homosexual pedophilia.






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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Asante]
    #4434266 - 07/21/05 04:09 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
There is no such thing as homosexual pedophilia. Pedophilia by definition is not heterosexual nor homosexual.



Yes, the definition of pedophilia without the modifier does not tell us about preferences for the sex of the child, much like the definition of male tells us nothing about sexual preferences of the male. However, there are homosexual pedophiles. Denial is not a river in Egypt.

Quote:

You are born gay, or straight so nobody can be turned gay.



You may be speaking for yourself, but there are six billion people in the world, I doubt that you know all of them well enough to make such a statement.

Quote:

If you think you can be made gay then you are bisexual or so deep in the closet you can't find the door.



People, especially the young, can be manipulated. Sometimes it's referred to as brainwashing. There are many examples from cults, governments, individuals and various groups.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Asante]
    #4434548 - 07/21/05 04:58 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:

You are born gay, or straight so nobody can be turned gay. If you think you can be made gay then you are bisexual or so deep in the closet you can't find the door.








so are you born bisexual?

guess i was born with Tolerance to gays but not Acceptance.


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We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4435095 - 07/21/05 06:59 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)


Yes, the definition of pedophilia without the modifier does not tell us about preferences for the sex of the child, much like the definition of male tells us nothing about sexual preferences of the male. However, there are homosexual pedophiles. Denial is not a river in Egypt.


I found his statement a little odd as well, but I'm not entirely sure what he meant. It seems quite obvious to me that most pedophiles do, in fact, have a sexual preference as the majority of sexual attacks are against young girls (despite what some people with certain agendas will have you believe). But since I'm not sure exactly what he meant, I don't see the sense in calling it denial other than to have an accusation to toss.


People, especially the young, can be manipulated. Sometimes it's referred to as brainwashing. There are many examples from cults, governments, individuals and various groups.


Being manipulated into having certain opinions is one thing, but being manipulated to the point that it alters ones sexual desires is quite another.


--------------------
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Phluck]
    #4435845 - 07/21/05 10:06 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
What are they teaching the kids that's so bad? It's not like they're teaching them to be gay, they're teaching them that it's not okay to taunt and abuse people who are gay. That seems like common decency to me.




They should be taught not to taunt or abuse anyone. You don't have to bring sexuality into the argument. Teach them the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. It does apply everytime. If we got that straight we wouldn't have any problems.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4436191 - 07/21/05 11:42 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

JesusChrist said:
They should be taught not to taunt or abuse anyone.




Agreed.
The PARENTS should be teaching tolerance.
Not the schools.

However.....
when parents aren't teaching tolerance, the schools have a responsibility to society to do so in the parents stead.

Quote:

You don't have to bring sexuality into the argument. Teach them the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. It does apply everytime. If we got that straight we wouldn't have any problems.




True....but when people spout blatant bigotry like......

"Homosexuals like to take a man?s penis into their mouth or anal sphincter, or conversely, they like to do this to other men. Now this is fine and nice for them, and I say let them have at it. What the hell, get out the gerbils! I don?t care. They can go to the bathhouses and stick their asses up in the air next to the obligatory can of Crisco, and I won?t protest."

.....then they haven't taken the "Do unto others" rule very seriously, have they?


Statements like that KEEP the levels of intolerance high.

Do you realize that you are the ONLY person to bring up graphic, over-exaggerated ?details? of homosexuality.


Why can't you discuss the idea rationally with out blowing things WAY out of proportion.

Sex ed was a part of my High School biology.......
I was NEVER shown/taught highly x-rated material to define sexuality.

NEVER

Oh......and by the way.....all those homosexual acts you were crying about earlier.....are done by heterosexual people too.



What makes you think that they will be using graphic, x-rated, descriptions, when trying to teach tolerance?

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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Asante]
    #4436199 - 07/21/05 11:44 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:

The Romans were cool with homosexual pedophilia too!




There is no such thing as homosexual pedophilia. Pedophilia by definition is not heterosexual nor homosexual.
Funny associations you have.






Are you trying to semantically prove that no such thing as homosexual pedophilia exists?

Homosexuality is having sexual relations with someone of the same sex. Pedophilia is having sex with children. Homosexual pedophilia is having sex with children of the same sex.

In context, we were discussing (for some reason) homosexuality and it's acceptance in the Roman Empire. In the Roman Empire, warriors used to take young male concubines with them to the front lines. It was like an apprenticeship. The learned the ways of war, and they also had sex with the adult male warriors.

I guess you could make an argument that in such a society that young children grew up indoctrinated in a cult of homosexuality, and that influencing these kids and having sex with them at such a young age probably did much to spread the social acceptance of homosexuality in the Roman Empire.

I like the way you claim that homosexual pedophilia doesn't exist "by definition". It doesn't matter if it actually happens in everyday life, for you the matter it settled. You control the definition, so you control the world. What color is the sky in your world? What kind of semantical mindfuck is that?

Quote:


You are born gay, or straight so nobody can be turned gay. If you think you can be made gay then you are bisexual or so deep in the closet you can't find the door.




In this thread I have had veiled references to me being either a Christian fundamentalist extremist or a bigot. It was only a matter of time until somebody suggested that I was gay! WOO HOO! Tell me that ain't predictable. Good to see you guys are playing it straight by the book.

I have one guy telling me that our culture represses gays, and that it was accepted and much more prevalent without the stigma in the Roman culture. It evidently was with both the Romans and the Greeks. Then I have you telling me that it is genetic. Those two accounts don?t jive, and I am not sure how to reconcile them. If it was common for the Greek and Roman warriors to have male concubines, were they all born gay? That would be a pretty significant percentage of the population. What happened to their genetics?

I don't know if people are born gay. I suspect that you don't have all the answers either. I wasn't looking for an answer to that question. I just don't want the government teaching somebody else's values to my children.

Quote:

It is better that highschool kids can have their questions answered by someone who knows what's what than do guesswork based on a homophobic culture.





Who decides who is "someone who knows" and who decides what they should "know". These are value judgments that the government shouldn't be deciding in respect to our children. Take it from me, if that "someone who knows" wasn't teaching values that you agreed with, you wouldn't be pleased. Since you agree with that particular belief structure, you think it should be universally taught to every pupil.

Take abortion. What if they decided to not use the term abortion in schools? What if every school was mandated to just say what it is, just the facts with no semantics. You stab a pre-born human child in the skull with a pair of scissors, gouge a big enough hole, and then suck his brains out with a vacuum cleaner. What if they disallowed your semantics of "choice" and called it death? The facts of abortion remain the same, the facts of the procedure remain the same, but the values suddenly change.

And what about our "homophobic culture"? Our popular culture is rich with gay influence, from movies to TV to fashion to music and entertainment. We have gay politicians, gay doctors, bankers, etc. Gays make more money as a demographic than any other single demographic. I live next to two gay lawyers, and they are great guys living high on the hog (no pun intended). Being critical of our country has always been more popular around here than giving us credit. This is the best fucking country in the world to be a gay man.

And good for them. Be you gay or straight or black or white, the American dream is still attainable for those who persevere with sweat and blood. I have nothing against gays. I wish for them the best of all possible worlds in the pursuit of happiness. That doesn?t mean I have to buy into an agenda for government indoctrination of a value system.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: niteowl]
    #4436422 - 07/22/05 12:46 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

JesusChrist said:
They should be taught not to taunt or abuse anyone.




Agreed.
The PARENTS should be teaching tolerance.
Not the schools.

However.....
when parents aren't teaching tolerance, the schools have a responsibility to society to do so in the parents stead.




You can teach tolerance without teaching about sexuality.

Quote:

You don't have to bring sexuality into the argument. Teach them the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. It does apply every time. If we got that straight we wouldn't have any problems.




True....but when people spout blatant bigotry like......

"Homosexuals like to take a man?s penis into their mouth or anal sphincter, or conversely, they like to do this to other men. Now this is fine and nice for them, and I say let them have at it. What the hell, get out the gerbils! I don?t care. They can go to the bathhouses and stick their asses up in the air next to the obligatory can of Crisco, and I won?t protest."

.....then they haven't taken the "Do unto others" rule very seriously, have they?


Statements like that KEEP the levels of intolerance high.

Do you realize that you are the ONLY person to bring up graphic, over-exaggerated ?details? of homosexuality.




You can't take the "sexuality" out of homosexuality. When homosexuals have sex, they do it in a different way than heterosexuals. Instead of a penis and a vagina, you have a penis penetrating another mans anal cavity (with the optional wrap around). I am sorry if that offends you, maybe you are the "bigot". I have lived with men as roommates, and I truly can say that I love some of my best friends. That doesn't make me a homosexual. That is because I would need to have sex with those men to fit that description. Again, you can't take the sexual aspect out of homosexual behavior and even attempt to define it. If you are going to teach about homosexuality, or even define homosexuality, at some point you will have to deal with the "sexuality" part of it, and kids will always have questions.

Quote:

Why can't you discuss the idea rationally with out blowing things WAY out of proportion.

Sex ed was a part of my High School biology.......
I was NEVER shown/taught highly x-rated material to define sexuality.

NEVER





Lets get rational then. Sorry if I went over the line, but I don't think that I did for a second.

Did they teach you in Sex Ed about homosexuality? Did they teach you about heterosexuality?

Lets start with heterosexual behavior. Did they teach you the cycle of life? A heterosexual man inserts his penis into a woman's vagina. He ejaculates sperm into her vaginal cavity. That sperm swims upstream and meets up with an egg, we have all seen the film, haven't we? That egg becomes a human being, unless of course, you poke a hole in its head and suck out its brain with a vacuum cleaner. They don't show that on the film.

They go over the process in detail. They really do. At the end of Sex ed in high school, you have no question where babies come from and the process it takes to make them. Am I making this up?

Since I have demonstrated to the class what happens in heterosexual relationships, I would like you to cover the "back end" portion of the class, which is a homosexual relationship. I have asked for you earlier in this thread to define homosexuality, and you refused. Now I want you to tell the class the way that you would teach it in a Sex Ed format. Tell me what it is and how it is done, just like we do it for heterosexual behavior. And don't wimp out this time.

Quote:

Oh......and by the way.....all those homosexual acts you were crying about earlier.....are done by heterosexual people too.





I wasn't crying, I was defining. You seem to get your panties in a bunch when I define homosexual behavior.

But I won't deny your premise. The same acts that I described are indeed acted out night in and night out by heterosexuals. I won't deny it, but should they teach it? Come on.

I nailed a girl?s ass once, but I don't think that they should teach people about anal sex. And people do a lot worse than that. They have sex with dogs, and horses, and sheep and cows. I saw some of that once on a video. Sick stuff. I hope they don't teach that. What about foot fetishes? I don't think so. Cross dressing? Nope. I got this thing myself about standing up while my woman sucks me off on her knees. Makes me feel like a god damn titan. I love looking down on her in a position of power, and telling her how pretty her little lips look on my cock. But just because I like that shouldn't mean they should teach it. For Christ's sake (my sake I should say), we could go on all night with different variations, and I don't think that the government should be in the business of defining deviant and socially aberrant behavior to children.

But first things first. You are the Sex Ed teacher my friend. I want you to define and explain homosexual behavior. Have fun.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4436490 - 07/22/05 01:06 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

JesusChrist said:I have asked for you earlier in this thread to define homosexuality, and you refused. Now I want you to tell the class the way that you would teach it in a Sex Ed format.





See.....


This PROVES that you DON'T GET what the ACLU is trying to do.

The point of giving a definition, of homosexuality, to HIGH SCHOOL kids is moot (just like your whole argument)......

.....they already know what a homosexual IS.

They aren't trying to TEACH HOMOSEXUALITY





If you can't see that.......I have nothing more to say to you on this issue.

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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: niteowl]
    #4436811 - 07/22/05 02:14 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I have asked you to define homosexuality time and time again and you won't. I will not ask you again. You took the pussy way out. Don't even bother trying to answer the question now, I will try and ask a more able man.

Back to the original point of this post, from the very beginning.

The origin of this post was some culture-and-family.org outfit, which was clearly a Judeo-Christian organization. Some people criticized the source.

What if we look at the ACLU website:

http://www.aclu.org/LesbianGayRights/LesbianGayRights.cfm?ID=18626&c=106

Without any spin, this is what the ACLU has to say about this case:

Quote:

In addition, Gays and Lesbians Initiating Dialogue for Equality will hold classroom training sessions and assemblies for Washington Prep students and middle school students slated to attend the high school.




The Gays and Lesbians Initiating Dialogue for Equality are even talking to middle school students. I bet that is healthy.

Quote:

"GSA Network is pleased that the settlement agreement includes mandatory staff training and student education on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender issues because these proven strategies will help create what all students at Washington Prep deserve -- a safe place to learn," said Carolyn Laub, Executive Director of GSA Network.




Fuck it. Fuck defining homosexuality. I want one of you fuckers to tell me how you would define "transgender issues" to my children. "Transgender" wasn't even a fucking word when I was in high school. Tell me that every kid today knows what a "transgender" is, because the ACLU and your government have made an agreement to explain that to your fucking children. Stop the fucking madness.

Yesterday I was a man. Today I am a woman. Except, I will never really be a woman, I just choose to mutilate myself and cut off my penis.

Yeah, I can see where all this is going, and it is really healthy. Call me a bigot and religious extremist again. If you don't think that the ACLU and the gay coalition will be graphic in their explanations you are fucking fooling yourself.

That said, I am drunk as a skunk and cussing like a sailor. Good night all.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4437333 - 07/22/05 08:28 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

What if there is a direct issue of kids mocking or abusing homosexuals? Obviously they already know about it, why would you just skirt around the actual issue?

Who the fuck cares if kids know what transgender means, or if they are familiar with the idea of homosexuality? Do you have any evidence whatsoever that this is unhealthy, or are you just speaking out of some deep rooted fear?

Why is it madness? You haven't given any actual reasons whatsoever, you're just saying that its bad for kids to know about this shit.

There's no evidence that having heard of homosexuality is going to somehow turn kids gay, or make them into psychopaths or something. That's absolute nonsense. It's completely unfounded, illogical fear.

I see no reason to base our rules on who gets to talk to children on the paranoid delusions of religious extremists.


--------------------
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4437471 - 07/22/05 09:23 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

The ACLU link did not mention if they would be teaching the middle school kids about the high AIDS infection rates among homosexuals.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4437683 - 07/22/05 11:01 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
The ACLU link did not mention if they would be teaching the middle school kids about the high AIDS infection rates among homosexuals.



Why should they? That's for health class.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4438083 - 07/22/05 01:00 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I can't think of any reason why you'd bring up AIDS other than to try and demonize gays. AIDS has nothing to do with the issue of gays being mistreated. Of course, AIDS isn't only a gay disease, not by a long shot...

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/background_briefings/aids/342257.stm

In regards to AIDS in the Americas

Quote:

The main routes of infection are heterosexual sex and IV drugs.




Anal sex poses a higher risk of HIV infection than vaginal sex. But that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of gay men who take precautions and engage only in safe sex.

Simply because being gay statistically puts you at a higher risk of infection, doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of gay men who are less likely to contract HIV than many straight people because they take the right precautions.


--------------------
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Phluck]
    #4438375 - 07/22/05 02:07 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
I can't think of any reason why you'd bring up AIDS other than to try and demonize gays. AIDS has nothing to do with the issue of gays being mistreated. Of course, AIDS isn't only a gay disease, not by a long shot...

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/background_briefings/aids/342257.stm

In regards to AIDS in the Americas

Quote:

The main routes of infection are heterosexual sex and IV drugs.




Anal sex poses a higher risk of HIV infection than vaginal sex. But that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of gay men who take precautions and engage only in safe sex.

Simply because being gay statistically puts you at a higher risk of infection, doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of gay men who are less likely to contract HIV than many straight people because they take the right precautions.






http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats.htm

Homosexual sex is the primary transmission route of the AIDS virus in our society. According to the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (with the National Institutes of Health), there are an estimated 40,000 new HIV infections each year in the United States. Seventy percent of these are men; 30% are women. Of those men who are infected, 60% of them are infected through homosexual sex; 25% through intravenous drug use; and 15% through heterosexual sex


Exposure Category Estimated # of AIDS Cases, Through 2003
Male Female Total

Male-to-male sexual contact 440,887 - total 440,887

Injection Drug Use 175,988 70,558 total 246,546

Male-to-male sexual contact and injection drug use 62,418 - total 62,418

Heterosexual contact 56,403 93,586 total 149,989

Other* 14,191 6,535 total 20,726





Basic Statistics
Unless otherwise noted, the following data is from the CDC HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report: HIV Infection and AIDS in the United States, 2003

For a more complete understanding of the current surveillance trends, you may download the HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report or request a free copy by calling the CDC National Prevention Information Network at 1-800-458-5231.



HIV Estimate

At the end of 2003, an estimated 1,039,000 to 1,185,000 persons in the United States were living with HIV/AIDS, with 24-27% undiagnosed and unaware of their HIV infection.1

For more information see "A Glance at the HIV/AIDS Epidemic".

1 Glynn M, Rhodes P. Estimated HIV prevalence in the United States at the end of 2003. National HIV Prevention Conference; June 2005; Atlanta. Abstract 595.


AIDS Cases

In 2003, the estimated number of diagnoses of AIDS in the United States was 43,171. Adult and adolescent AIDS cases totaled 43,112 with 31,614 cases in males and 11,498 cases in females. Also in 2003, there were 59 AIDS cases estimated in children under age 13.


The cumulative estimated number of diagnoses of AIDS through 2003 in the United States is 929,985. Adult and adolescent AIDS cases total 920,566 with 749,887 cases in males and 170,679 cases in females. Through the same time period, 9,419 AIDS cases were estimated in children under age 13.





Deaths Due to AIDS

In 2003, the estimated number of deaths of persons with AIDS was 18,017, including 17,934 adults and adolescents, and 83 children under age 13

The cumulative estimated number of deaths of persons with AIDS through 2003 is 524,060, including 518,568 adults and adolescents, and 5,492 children under age 13.



AIDS Cases by Age

Of the estimated number of AIDS cases, person?s age at time of diagnosis were distributed as follows:

Age Estimated # of AIDS Cases in 2003 Cumulative Estimated # of AIDS Cases, Through 2003
Under 13: 59 9,419
Ages 13 to 14: 59 891
Ages 15 to 24: 1,991 37,599
Ages 25 to 34: 9,605 311,137
Ages 35 to 44: 17,633 365,432
Ages 45 to 54: 10,051 148,347
Ages 55 to 64: 2,888 43,451
Ages 65 or older: 886 13,711



AIDS Cases by Race/Ethnicity

Estimated numbers of diagnoses of AIDS, by race or ethnicity:

Race or Ethnicity Estimated # of AIDS Cases in 2003 Cumulative Estimated # of AIDS Cases, Through 2003
White, not Hispanic 12,222 376,834
Black, not Hispanic 21,304 368,169
Hispanic 8,757 172,993
Asian/Pacific Islander 497 7,166
American Indian/Alaska Native 196 3,026



AIDS Cases by Exposure Category

Following is the distribution of the estimated number of diagnoses of AIDS among adults and adolescents by exposure category. A breakdown by sex is provided where appropriate.

Exposure Category Estimated # of AIDS Cases, in 2003
Male Female Total
Male-to-male sexual contact 17,969 - 17,969
Injection Drug Use 6,353 3,096 9,449
Male-to-male sexual contact and injection drug use 1,877 - 1,877
Heterosexual contact 5,133 8,127 13,260
Other* 281 276 557


Exposure Category Estimated # of AIDS Cases, Through 2003
Male Female Total
Male-to-male sexual contact 440,887 - 440,887
Injection Drug Use 175,988 70,558 246,546
Male-to-male sexual contact and injection drug use 62,418 - 62,418
Heterosexual contact 56,403 93,586 149,989
Other* 14,191 6,535

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats.htm


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4438395 - 07/22/05 02:11 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

And how is any of this relevant to kids picking on or beating up gays?


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Silversoul]
    #4438420 - 07/22/05 02:15 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
And how is any of this relevant to kids picking on or beating up gays?




replying to Phluck. not you.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4438435 - 07/22/05 02:18 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Okay then, how is this relevant to kids picking on gays?


--------------------
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Phluck]
    #4438501 - 07/22/05 02:30 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

ACLU said
"In addition, Gays and Lesbians Initiating Dialogue for Equality will hold classroom training sessions and assemblies for Washington Prep students and middle school students slated to attend the high school"

"GSA Network is pleased that the settlement agreement includes mandatory staff training and student education on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender issues because these proven strategies will help create what all students at Washington Prep deserve -- a safe place to learn," said Carolyn Laub, Executive Director of GSA Network.





I said:
"The ACLU link did not mention if they would be teaching the middle school kids about the high AIDS infection rates among homosexuals. "




you said:

I can't think of any reason why you'd bring up AIDS other than to try and demonize gays. AIDS has nothing to do with the issue of gays being mistreated.





IMO if they have mandatory training and student education on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender issues.....

AIDS/HIV should be included.


--------------------
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America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4438505 - 07/22/05 02:31 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Anyways, evidently the CDC and the UN have different statistics, but why does it really matter? Does being in a high risk demographic make you a bad person? Of course not, it doesn't even mean that you personally are at a higher risk. It is quite possible to be a gay man and to be much safer than many straight men, all you have to do is take precautions.

The high rates of AIDS in gay men originated before people even knew what AIDS was. The normal response for a person to have when they hear about a tragedy that is affecting a group of people is to feel bad for them, not to hate them.

Of course, the best way to combat AIDS is education, but there are certain people out there who feel that talking about being gay is somehow going to hurt people.

If gay people don't feel alienated and hated, they are more likely not to be depressed and self destructive, and more likely to try to keep themselves healthy and away from risk. By being an ass and calling them all deviants , you're certainly not helping anyone.

Thankfully, society is changing. People are becoming educated, and it's less likely for any given person to have irrational disgust just because for some weird reason, they can't deal with hearing about people whose sexuality isn't exactly the same as theirs.


--------------------
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Phluck]
    #4438520 - 07/22/05 02:34 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

i hear you.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4438523 - 07/22/05 02:34 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

But the issue isn't about sexual health, it's about treating people with basic respect.

AIDS has nothing whatsoever to do with that.


--------------------
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Phluck]
    #4438533 - 07/22/05 02:37 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I'd like to know, how it is more likely to contract aids via anal sex than it is via vaginal?


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #4438539 - 07/22/05 02:38 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

rogue_pixie said:
I'd like to know, how it is more likely to contract aids via anal sex than it is via vaginal?



I think it has something to do with more blood vessels lining the colon. Also, it's a smaller opening, so there's more chance of bleeding.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Silversoul]
    #4438597 - 07/22/05 02:52 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

So it's not just to do with the fact that men are bigger slags? :lol:


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #4438605 - 07/22/05 02:53 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

P.S. Straight people have anal sex too!


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #4438636 - 07/22/05 02:58 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

rogue_pixie said:
P.S. Straight people have anal sex too!




Are you trying to admit to something?

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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Silversoul]
    #4438706 - 07/22/05 03:19 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Paradigm is right. The colon is not really supposed to be subjected to having a penis thrust in and out of it. It also easily absorbs substances into the bloodstream, which is why suppositories are an effective way of administering drugs.


--------------------
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Phluck]
    #4438736 - 07/22/05 03:25 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Paradigm is right. The colon is not really supposed to be subjected to having a penis thrust in and out of it. It also easily absorbs substances into the bloodstream, which is why suppositories are an effective way of administering drugs.




You guys sure seem to know a lot about anal sex............................
:smirk:

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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4438778 - 07/22/05 03:34 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, that's 'cause I read about stuff.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Phluck]
    #4438841 - 07/22/05 03:53 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Yeah, that's 'cause I read about stuff.




Sounds like you are reading some pretty interesting stuff there.

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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4441808 - 07/23/05 05:52 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Yep, I've got an internet connection.


--------------------
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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4441934 - 07/23/05 07:45 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Exposure Category Estimated # of AIDS Cases, Through 2003
Male Female Total
.
Male-to-male sexual contact 440,887 - total 440,887

Injection Drug Use 175,988 70,558 total 246,546

Male-to-male sexual contact and injection drug use 62,418 - total 62,418

Heterosexual contact 56,403 93,586 total 149,989

Other* 14,191 6,535 total 20,726




Notice something? I sure do. Male-to-male +injection is differientiated from the general category, but Male-to-female + injection is NOT set apart. Let's do that, shall we?

Quote:

Exposure Category Estimated # of AIDS Cases, Through 2003
Male Female Total
.
Male-to-male sexual contact 440,887 - total 440,887

Male-to-male sexual contact and injection drug use 62,418 - total 62,418

Heterosexual contact 56,403 93,586 total 149,989

Heterosexual Injection Drug Use 175,988 70,558 total 246,546

Other* 14,191 6,535 total 20,726




Now lets contract the two, shall we?

HOMO + HOMO + INJECT = 503.085
STR8 + STR8 + INJECT = 396.535

Now these numbers OF ALL TIME look quite different than the CDC likes to show them. If you balance the two there's only a tad more homosexuals (55%:45%) in this statistic of all time.
Which means that lathough the epidemic started in tthe USA among the gay culture, it stems off a heterosexual disease in Africa and as such the USA heterosexual infections are rapidly on the increase.

Quote:

Seventy percent of these are men; 30% are women. Of those men who are infected, 60% of them are infected through homosexual sex; 25% through intravenous drug use; and 15% through heterosexual sex




OH NO THOSE EVIL GAYS!! SIXTY PERCENT!!

emmm.. No.
Read it more carefully: sixty percent of the seventy percent men are gay.

that means that gays are a minority of 42 % of annual infections despite the fact the epidemic started among them and please note the CDC adds up HOMO+INJECT with the HOMO statistic but doesnt do this with heterosexual drug use.
This in fact is reflected in that their categories measure up to 100%

So if we want a honest statistic we have to subtract the HOMO+INJECT category (thats 12.5% of the group in the previous statistic) from the HOMO group just like its done with the STR8+INJECT group.
And then we arrive at:

Discounting injecters only 36.75% of the infected persons were homosexuals

Now why would the CDC forge their statistics so that they would NOT show that (discounting needle freaks) nondrug homosexuals are 50% of the historic population but only 36.75% of the recently infected population? That means that homosexuals are getting a quarter less infections annually than the historic figures which means homosexuals do exceptionally well.

If you look at the CDC figures then the statistic numbers may be correcxt but you also see that the way the statistics are displayed are systematically making homosexuals look bad while in fact they are doing quite well compared to historic figures.

Worldwide AIDS is a heterosexual disease. And even in the USA today, looking at current infection representation, it is a heterosexual disease.

"Patient zero" in the USA was a homosexual airline steward who happened to be exceptionally promiscuous. He flew from airport to airport and because of his good looks and casanova charm he passed it on to far over a hundred homosexual males who, by their willingness for one night stands were of a promiscuous lifestyle themselves.
THAT is why AIDS started out mostly among homosexual males, and because men of any gender preference like to be promiscuous, and there are many more heterosexuals than homosexuals, AIDS is rapidly reverting to its natural state of a heterosexual disease.

If the CDC is interested in actually culling the epidemic they should lay emphasis on spread among heterosexuals and not stigmatize homosexuals which lulls heterosexuals into a false sense of security.


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Re: ACLU Seeks Mandatory Homosexual Sensitivity Training [Re: Asante]
    #4445097 - 07/23/05 11:05 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Some gays may claim to get it through straight sex because they don't want to admit that they caught it from a dick in their ass.

Some people liked to claim that they caught VD from a dirty toilet seat. They are lying.

Females can catch it much easier from an infected male than a male can catch it from an infected female. Many of the heterosexual cases are from bisexual males having heterosexual sex with a girl, or drug addicted males having heterosexual sex with a girl.

If you are a male, you need to watch out for other forms of VD. If you catch a disease that gives you an open sore on your penis, that open sore could eventually give you aids.

If you are a healthy male with no VD (no cuts or openings on your penis or what not). You could have straight sex (penis to vagina) with an infected female, or a thousand infected females and have very little chance of getting aids.

Males transfer body fluid into females during normal and natural sex. If you are healthy and disease free, you take in no fluids if you are male.

If you have VD, you better wear protection. For one thing, don't give that shit to anyone else. For another, you could get Aids. VD is a huge risk factor for Aids. Without it you are practically impregnable if you are a straight male.


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