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Amazon Shop for: Ayahuasca, Mimosa Hostilis, Salvia

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OfflineTheHook
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DMT extraction question
    #4404241 - 07/14/05 05:05 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Can anyone explain to me why I have to use an acid/base extraction on mimosa hostilis? I dont see why a standard alcohol/acetone extraction wouldnt work and it would be so much easier...

If anyone has an answer id like to hear it or if anyone has an alternative extraction method that is tried and true, it would be great if you could post that. thnks


--------------------
I often come to many challenges and intimidations, but then I remember that you only live life once, one single time through, with no reruns or rehearsals. So just live the way you want and the best you can. Its easy.


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: DMT extraction question [Re: TheHook]
    #4404833 - 07/14/05 07:12 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Ok...Do you understand the theory behind acid/base? If you do its easy to answer your question.

By the alcohol/acetone extraction you mean the "submerge powdered material in acetone/alcohol thrice,combine liquids,evaporate"?

See the the acid/base extraction is more refined.You are playing around with solubilities: First you turn the alkaloid in a salt form by acidifying water which is very hydrophilic material.That means it dissolves in water and polar solvents easily! But with your salt you have in your solution a whole lot of other things like tannins that you dont want.So it would be nice if you could leave that behind and get only your alkaloids right? Thats the next phase.Simply put one basifies the aqueous solution,turning the salt back to its freebase form ,the way it was in the plant material.This is not readily dissolved in water but in order to harvest it we need a solvent that could take it in leaving in water though all the other undesirable things.That could be done with any non polar (imagine loosly "oily) solvent that has a low boiling point because at the final stage you want it to evaporate.

So as you see its a game of solubilities,a case of "who goes in and who stays out".Its like wanting to isolate a desired person from an undisired flock of clubbers : You make them visit two different clubs with different "dresscodes" and strict bouncers! On the first club some people are left out by the bounces,our person goes in with some others as well.In order to enter the second club we change the "dresscode" of our desired person while others that were with him cant change their dresscode.So when the smaller flock tries to enter the second club all gets "bounced out" except our friend!

If you try a simple alcohol or acetone extraction i guess you will have some actives in the final gunk you will be left with.Its not going though to be pure and its not going to give you the best yield .You might also find out that with your extract you run into some practical problems such as nausea and still tasting the tannins (well,tannins can cause you some problems)


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Offlineesin
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Re: DMT extraction question [Re: TheHook]
    #4407134 - 07/15/05 09:38 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Because an alcohol or acetone extraction does not yield pure enough product for the purpose most people use DMT for.

If you're looking for a 10min mushroom like trip that extract would probably suffice (provided it is basic).
If you're looking for the 'flash experience', such extract will not do unless you have unusually low tolerance to dmt.

Smoking refined and cleaned DMT is hard enough let alone an impure crude extract.


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Offlinemattymonkey
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Re: DMT extraction question [Re: esin]
    #4407197 - 07/15/05 10:25 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

what do you guys think about orally active, alchohol based extractions? combined with an MAOI? would the alchohol extract enough of the goods to have that affect?


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OfflineTheHook
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Re: DMT extraction question [Re: mattymonkey]
    #4407537 - 07/15/05 01:40 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

i like that analogy up there with the bouncers... Yea ive got a handle on acid/base extractions, i was just curious if i could do it with alcohol since i have limited supply of hydro/sulfuric acids and i have nothing more than baking soda as a base....

Ok so i understand i wont get maximum yield but if i were to wash the final 'gunk' with a nonpolar solution that is fairly volitile, like naptha or something, i could still get a fair purity of the goodies?

(The reason im such a pain about this is because ive been making salvia fortifications and pure salvinorin extracts for 6 months or so and i would just like to integrate dmt into my facilities with as little modification as possible.)

thx for the answers guys


--------------------
I often come to many challenges and intimidations, but then I remember that you only live life once, one single time through, with no reruns or rehearsals. So just live the way you want and the best you can. Its easy.


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Offlineesin
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Re: DMT extraction question [Re: TheHook]
    #4411132 - 07/16/05 10:48 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Look, an alcohol extraction will be as efficient as an acid base, provided your active is freely soluble in your solvent. Perhaps even more effective as there are less steps and it doesn't involve solvent separations, which are always cause of some loss.

FYI, DMT is freely solvent in alcohol, but its salts are likely not very soluble in acetone.

The powder or the goo from an alcohol extraction on MHRB will be reeked full of alkaloids, but they won't be pure enough to smoke.
If it were everyone would be doing alcohol extractions instead doing a lot of unnecessary work and/or risking burning themselves messing with HCl and NaOH.

Any acid will work for a/b. If NaOH is too expensive for you you better forget this project as MHRB tends to be 100+ times more expensive than lye.

EDIT: removed repeated phrase.


Edited by esin (07/16/05 11:40 AM)


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: DMT extraction question [Re: esin]
    #4411168 - 07/16/05 11:05 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The powder or the goo from an alcohol extraction on MHRB will be reeked full of alkaloids, but they won't be pure enough to smoke.




Indeed,if it is for smoking then what you will be left with is not that appropriate.It could work though with ayahuascas if the final product is not too much!

Here is some Merck data on this interesting tryptamine from Erowid http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_chemistry.shtml


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OfflineTheHook
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Re: DMT extraction question [Re: Psiloman]
    #4412093 - 07/16/05 05:25 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

whoa, so even after a series of say 6 naptha washes the final product still isnt pure enough to smoke? are you serious?!

if anyone is wondering exactly what tek im talking about its the salvia tincture tek and it works great.


--------------------
I often come to many challenges and intimidations, but then I remember that you only live life once, one single time through, with no reruns or rehearsals. So just live the way you want and the best you can. Its easy.


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: DMT extraction question [Re: TheHook]
    #4412497 - 07/16/05 07:59 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Salvia tincture used for extracting DMT? You lost me there... If you are already doing deffatings,why not go with a pure A/B tech? I thought you wanted somehow to skip deffat so its easier or something! Come on man,acidic solutions and basifying them is a piece of cake!

Hmmm...Salvinorin is a quite different compound, a neoclerodane terpene that is found at the glandular trichomes of salvia leaves. DMT is an alkaloid most possibly located in the vacuoles of the plant cells...

Yes,the product even if unpure will give you some effects,but consider that even with PURE dmt people have a hard time breaking through since 2 or 3 tokes are needed.Imagine if 5 or 6 tokes of your material was needed: certainly the DMT intake would me too much spaced out (heh!) to reach any "breakthrough" concentrations in your bloodstream


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Amazon Shop for: Ayahuasca, Mimosa Hostilis, Salvia

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