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Offlinecrunchytoast
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the end of the world already happened?
    #4401931 - 07/14/05 01:26 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i was tripping hard a few weeks ago watching this documentary fog of war. its about robert mcnamara's role with nuclear weapons (as far as i got/can remember)

i remember he said that we came very close to world annihilation through the cuban missile crisis and two other times. he said we were so close but were very lucky for this or that to have happened just as it did, because it saved us from nuclear war.

this made me think of quantum physics and the multiple universe theory. now if we came so close to annihilation each time but were inexplicably saved each time, what does that say?

i think in reality we weren't luckily saved. nuclear war did happen- in the majority of the universes. but our universe is one of the small minority of universes where something extremely unlikely happened (kennedy's inexplicable leadership despite all the stress, sickness for example).

it's like if you shoot yourself, in the majority of universes you'll die, but in one universe, the gun won't work, or the bullet will teleport past your head, etc. so there's this version of everyone that will live forever.

at first that movie gave me hope for the human race because it showed that in times of dire need, human beings will come through.

but the more i've thought about it the more hopeless i've became.

now i really am a layman when it comes to q.p. and i was tripping decently hard when i watched that movie and i dont remember much; so maybe i'm wrong.

i'm curious what other people think about this theory.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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OfflineWhiteRabbitt
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4402140 - 07/14/05 02:56 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

That's a really good movie. It's about all his experiences, not just those with nuclear arms.

Also, I don't buy into the whole multiple universe thing.


--------------------
You gotta jump and swing up to hit me in the knees.



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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: WhiteRabbitt]
    #4402277 - 07/14/05 03:44 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

so this means there's a universe where all of these crazy people are trying to kill themselves and everybody else but just can't seem to pull it off quite yet!! Fuck that didn't work lets try THIS! heh


--------------------
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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: Strumpling]
    #4402462 - 07/14/05 06:23 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

the multiple universe theory is laughable IMO. I think it is possible for there to be OTHER universes, but not exact copies where everything happens the same. Let me explain why multiple carbon copy universes would not be possible beyond plancks wall.....

If there were all the universe, which are exactly like each other, in events, people, and places, then we must conclude that they had to have been exactly similar from the very beginning. From the beginning on, the universe would start to differ. All it would take is for one butterfly not to fart, which inversly caused air pressure imbalance enouch to create the first tsunami ever which somehow caused a glacier to fracture. From then on, these two universes would not be the same, nor would they continue to be similar after billions of years. By that one butterfly farting, it could have somehow cancelled out or delayed the entire discovery of nuclear weapons, therefor there would be no likenesses to compare possible nuclear fallout to other universes which had no nuclear capabilities.
I never understood how this theory caught on, especially when it cancels itself out. If there are all these universes, which constantly (or even every now and then) vary in events, how could they continue to be similar?
Its great and fun to postulate about this stuff, but I think it needs to be shelved along with the other abused pothead topics such as : our universe could be dust in a much bigger universe; and what if what I call blue is what you call green!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4402483 - 07/14/05 06:55 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

just don't count on any mistakes being magically fixed here or elsewhere - this may be like a dream compared to something else, but we still have to learn to treat everything with a kind of ongoing sustainable (maybe laughing) respect.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4402543 - 07/14/05 08:04 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
i was tripping hard a few weeks ago watching this documentary fog of war. its about robert mcnamara's role with nuclear weapons (as far as i got/can remember)

i remember he said that we came very close to world annihilation through the cuban missile crisis and two other times. he said we were so close but were very lucky for this or that to have happened just as it did, because it saved us from nuclear war.

this made me think of quantum physics and the multiple universe theory. now if we came so close to annihilation each time but were inexplicably saved each time, what does that say?

i think in reality we weren't luckily saved. nuclear war did happen- in the majority of the universes. but our universe is one of the small minority of universes where something extremely unlikely happened (kennedy's inexplicable leadership despite all the stress, sickness for example).

it's like if you shoot yourself, in the majority of universes you'll die, but in one universe, the gun won't work, or the bullet will teleport past your head, etc. so there's this version of everyone that will live forever.

at first that movie gave me hope for the human race because it showed that in times of dire need, human beings will come through.

but the more i've thought about it the more hopeless i've became.

now i really am a layman when it comes to q.p. and i was tripping decently hard when i watched that movie and i dont remember much; so maybe i'm wrong.

i'm curious what other people think about this theory.





if the numbers of universes is infinite (or something that seems infinite to us) and each universe is EVERY possibility possible, then there can not be more universes with one outcome than universe with another outcome.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Registered: 04/07/05
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4402727 - 07/14/05 10:25 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

maybe you're right OWS
i'm not a mathemetician but here's a counterargument-
i remember something like this idea from a logic class at some point
between 1 and 2 there's infinite decimal numbers
between 2 and 3 there's infinite decimal numbers
and for every number between 1 and 2, there's a number between 2 and 3 that corresponds to it

and for every number between 1 and 2, there's two numbers between 2 and 4 that corresponsds to it

so even though there's infinite numbers between 1 and 2, and between 2 and 4, there's twice as many infinite numbers between 2 and 4 as between 1 and 2


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4402748 - 07/14/05 10:33 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Its great and fun to postulate about this stuff, but I think it needs to be shelved along with the other abused pothead topics such as : our universe could be dust in a much bigger universe; and what if what I call blue is what you call green!



:lol:

well light up my friend

i'm not sure what you're saying but i think it's that before the cuban missile crisis, there infinite universes already, and in only a relatively minute amount was there a cuban missile crisis at all.

yeah, that makes sense to me.

but of all the cuban missile crisis universes, seems to me most probably experienced nuclear war.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4402763 - 07/14/05 10:41 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I want to be in another universe where you didn't post this silly notion.  :grin:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: Swami]
    #4402773 - 07/14/05 10:46 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

what flaw in logic makes it silly?  :grin:


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4402813 - 07/14/05 11:06 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
this made me think of quantum physics and the multiple universe theory.  now if we came so close to annihilation each time but were inexplicably saved each time, what does that say?




It says that when it comes down to those precise moments where those making the relevant decisions are one second away from destroying everything, they realized exactly what they were doing and backed the fuck off. :lol:

Protecting our interests is useless when there isn't any interests to protect. No whimsical explanation necessary. Maybe every time someone gets cancer, but the doctors cure it, they actually died, but are instead experiencing a dimension where they didn't die, maybe because the cancer went to college.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Registered: 04/07/05
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4402850 - 07/14/05 11:20 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

kennedy had advisors that told him to just press the button
from the perspective of any one of these advisors, they had the choice- tell kennedy to press to button, or dont
and plenty said press the button

you're saying that when it comes down to it no one will press the button

the button wasnt pressed because kennedy was president as opposed to one of these other people (as well as bunches of other reasons)

but it's not because of some miracle of human nature

as for dying of cancer- yeah a person dies in one universe and lives in another, that makes sense from my primitive understanding of q.p.

but i never considered cancer going to college    :lol:


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4402929 - 07/14/05 11:43 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

ok, one more time..... after billions and billions of years, and billions and billions of seperate phenomena, the universes would be absolutly nothing alike. You are making it sound as if only important and world affecting shit would be altered from universe to universe, but it would have to stay true for everything. So that every single action, would have a few universes where it was altered. The similar but different (get it now?) universes would only have been similar for maybe, at most, 30 seconds.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4403096 - 07/14/05 12:28 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I think that what happens is that when one gets really close to their reflective awareness in its organic state then they start to see that they are timeless beings and not temporal and conditioned personalities. But with lack of clarity about the experience the tripper or journeyperson reiterates the conceptual framework for the experience in terms they understand instead of experiencing the timelessness first hand and letting it merely be what it is, an experience of oneself as outside of time.

So yes, I can agree with the universe ended thing, but from a different and meditational perspective.


--------------------
...or something







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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: eve69]
    #4403185 - 07/14/05 12:57 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The whole point is that there were obviously real reasons why it did not happen. I find it much more plausible to consider that, when it comes right down to it, not a lot of people would iniate the action that would destroy everything, as opposed to "no, it did happen, we just simply entered a new dimension where it didn't". :smirk:

I didn't tie my shoe, I just went to another dimension where I did tie my shoe. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4403364 - 07/14/05 01:50 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
i was tripping hard a few weeks ago watching this documentary fog of war. its about robert mcnamara's role with nuclear weapons (as far as i got/can remember)

i remember he said that we came very close to world annihilation through the cuban missile crisis and two other times. he said we were so close but were very lucky for this or that to have happened just as it did, because it saved us from nuclear war.

this made me think of quantum physics and the multiple universe theory. now if we came so close to annihilation each time but were inexplicably saved each time, what does that say?

i think in reality we weren't luckily saved. nuclear war did happen- in the majority of the universes. but our universe is one of the small minority of universes where something extremely unlikely happened (kennedy's inexplicable leadership despite all the stress, sickness for example).

it's like if you shoot yourself, in the majority of universes you'll die, but in one universe, the gun won't work, or the bullet will teleport past your head, etc. so there's this version of everyone that will live forever.

at first that movie gave me hope for the human race because it showed that in times of dire need, human beings will come through.

but the more i've thought about it the more hopeless i've became.

now i really am a layman when it comes to q.p. and i was tripping decently hard when i watched that movie and i dont remember much; so maybe i'm wrong.

i'm curious what other people think about this theory.




Yes, you are dead! :P


--------------------


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Disclaimer!?


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4404377 - 07/14/05 05:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

if two universes where alike up to this point, then the chain of cause and effect wouldn't allow for them to seperate at any point IMO. because it seems to be falling dominoes. if even all leaves where in the same place, all would continue as it were.


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4405807 - 07/14/05 11:24 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

psilocyberin- what i understand you saying is that the multiple universe theory states there are multiple parallel universes, and when one blows up, the others continue without a blow up.

now maybe i'm wrong but my understanding of multiple universes is that first you have this quantum field or whatever where say the electron could be anywhere in that field

then its observed and bam, this one universe splits into multiple ones, one universe for every point the particle could be at

does this address what you're saying?


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4405821 - 07/14/05 11:27 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I find it much more plausible to consider that, when it comes right down to it, not a lot of people would iniate the action that would destroy everything, as opposed to "no, it did happen, we just simply entered a new dimension where it didn't".




i guess it comes down to what you consider plausible. i'm no expert on quantum physics but i guess it comes down to me considering it plausible whereas you don't seem to.

which is cool, i mean its not like its a big deal, right?


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


Edited by crunchytoast (07/14/05 11:45 PM)


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Registered: 04/07/05
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Re: the end of the world already happened? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4405866 - 07/14/05 11:38 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:I think that what happens is that when one gets really close to their reflective awareness in its organic state then they start to see that they are timeless beings and not temporal and conditioned personalities. But with lack of clarity about the experience the tripper or journeyperson reiterates the conceptual framework for the experience in terms they understand instead of experiencing the timelessness first hand and letting it merely be what it is, an experience of oneself as outside of time.




Quote:

redgreenvines said:just don't count on any mistakes being magically fixed here or elsewhere - this may be like a dream compared to something else, but we still have to learn to treat everything with a kind of ongoing sustainable (maybe laughing) respect.




to me both these posts are dead on.

the universe already ended in the majority of universes since the cuban missile crisis. that says something about human nature.

so does it make sense to have faith in human nature? not if faith that means trusting human nature with anything, not even the most important, simplest choice.

but if faith means treating others with respect as an end in itself (redgreen), in other words without regard to its consequences cause-and-effect relationship in time (eve), then that's something valuable IMO.

still, it sucks about the world being ended...


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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