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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 2 days
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: Swami]
    #4400122 - 07/13/05 02:44 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

all the predicting you do, why don't you put your money where your mouth is.


check out www.tradesports.com

soon you will be able to bet/hedge on which city a terrorist will blow up next.

today i bet 20 dollars that hurricane Elaine would hit Texas.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Edited by lonestar2004 (07/13/05 02:46 PM)

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Invisibleroby000
me
Trans-male
Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 9,189
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4404702 - 07/14/05 04:39 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by roby000

Reason for deletion: s

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 2 days
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: roby000]
    #4404823 - 07/14/05 05:08 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

When (1stimer and HarryFlashmanVC) blamed the troops for the kids death, I quoted Moore because all three come from the same tree.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineHarryFlashmanVC
That BeastlyFlashy

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 88
Loc: Suffolk, England
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4407406 - 07/15/05 10:26 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I didn't blame the troops for the kids deaths. I said I thought they were stupid and irresponsable to let children gather around them when they know they are in a hostile environment fighting evil bastards who will happily blow them AND the children up.

I also am cynical enough to believe that terrorists might encourage children to congregate around troops to divert their attention.

This is the second time this has happened I believe. Do your boys ever learn? I thought they were there to win a war not to open a sweet shop!

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 2 days
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: HarryFlashmanVC]
    #4407419 - 07/15/05 10:34 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

With the amount of goods coming in to support the Iraqi children, and no UN presence or internation humanitarian presence to speak of, it's up to our "boys" to distribute the food, shoes, etc.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisibleIsaacHunt
Stranger
Registered: 05/27/05
Posts: 176
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4407452 - 07/15/05 11:03 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Bush pissed all over international law and the UN when he went in, don't expect them to bail his sorry ass out now.

And the reason no aid agencies can get in is because the American invasion has reduced the situation in Iraq to lawless anarchy.

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OfflineHarryFlashmanVC
That BeastlyFlashy

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 88
Loc: Suffolk, England
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4407534 - 07/15/05 11:39 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

With the amount of goods coming in to support the Iraqi children, and no UN presence or internation humanitarian presence to speak of, it's up to our "boys" to distribute the food, shoes, etc.




Perhaps I've misread it, but I thought they were handing out sweets out of their jeep in a random street. Not working a a supply depot which is reasonably protected and supplying essential goods....

Still last time it was around 34 children so the acceptable losses for mars bar delivery service is getting lower. Just another sign that we are winning the war on terror I reckon.

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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: HarryFlashmanVC]
    #4407547 - 07/15/05 11:45 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Candy > Sanitation, live relatives and no combat.

Just remember (dead) children, the neocons (and Ms. Albright before them) say, "It's worth it."


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4408094 - 07/15/05 02:35 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Candy > Sanitation, live relatives and no combat.

Just remember (dead) children, the neocons (and Ms. Albright before them) say, "It's worth it."




Tell me again who was driving that truck. Was it the same people who used to be in power? Or was it foreign Islamists? Was it a neocon? Guess which one it surely wasn't.


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4408234 - 07/15/05 03:04 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Went right over your head, didn't it? Tell me, how many terrorist attacks occurred in Iraq prior to the U.S. invasion and occupation? How many innocent people died from such attacks there before the neocon chicken hawks decided to embark on their Wilsonian campaign? Are all the dead innocent people's family members, are all the maimed innocent people, are all the children left without mothers or fathers better off now than before? Do you think that they support the claim that "it is worth it"?

Get back to us with the figures. Thanks.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4408281 - 07/15/05 03:16 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

They may not have had terrorist attacks, but they had a dictator who wouldn't hesitate to kill thousands of civilians.

Quote:

Along with other human rights organizations, The Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq has compiled documentation on over 600,000 civilian executions in Iraq. Human Rights Watch reports that in one operation alone, the Anfal, Saddam killed 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis. Another 500,000 are estimated to have died in Saddam's needless war with Iran. Coldly taken as a daily average for the 24 years of Saddam's reign, these numbers give us a horrifying picture of between 70 and 125 civilian deaths per day for every one of Saddam's 8,000-odd days in power.




http://www.gbn.com/ArticleDisplayServlet.srv?aid=2400&msp=1242

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4408417 - 07/15/05 03:49 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Yep, no innocent people died in Iraq before 2003, nor in Kuwait circa 1990, nor in Iran in the 80s. Yep, went clear over my head.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
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Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 3,937
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Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: Gijith]
    #4408816 - 07/15/05 05:34 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Gijith said:
I hope whoever did it is hunted down and never shown the light of day again.







I think the fact that he is a "Suicide" bomber takes care of this.


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #4409127 - 07/15/05 07:01 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

hmmmm. you may have a point there.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4409209 - 07/15/05 07:22 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Yep, no innocent people died in Iraq before 2003



Who said that?

Quote:

Yep, went clear over my head.



It certainly did. Saddam Hussein was contained since the first Gulf war. The yearly death toll of the innocent has increased, directly as a result of the U.S. invasion. The death toll of American service personnel has increased. Why is that so hard for you to understand? The U.S. went in and stirred up shit when there was a relatively stable situation. Though it was not ideal, it was better than what we have now based upon the human and economic tolls.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Invisiblebukkake
Male

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: roby000]
    #4409249 - 07/15/05 07:35 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

roby000 said:
you know what really gets me. this isnt on cnn for longer than 30 seconds if at all. it might make some of us support the war heaven forbid.



US bombs and sanctions have killed more Iraqi children than suicide bombers.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: bukkake]
    #4411198 - 07/16/05 09:21 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bukkake said:
Quote:

roby000 said:
you know what really gets me. this isnt on cnn for longer than 30 seconds if at all. it might make some of us support the war heaven forbid.



US bombs and sanctions have killed more Iraqi children than suicide bombers.




Got any evidence for this particular bit of bullshit. US sanctions????? I thought it was the all knowing and wise UN that imposed sanctions. Oh wait, never mind, the UN is a puppet of Halliburton and that is why the money intended for the poor Iraqi child victims of the overweening US/Bilderburg/Illuminati hegemony found it's way into the pockets of UN officials, French whores (that's pretty much all French politicians), the cunt Galloway, and various and sundry Chinese and Russian arms dealers.

I do sometimes have to wonder what the fuck goes on in other people's heads. Some stuff is just so foreign that I wonder if it comes from the same species. Maybe some kind of sea creature/dolphin intelligence. Anybody out there have an explanation? Phred? Lonestar? Paradigm, Gijith even?


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InvisibleKrishna
कृष्ण,LOL
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Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,285
Loc: oakland
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4411228 - 07/16/05 09:37 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

researchers with a Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO) study in Iraq wrote to The Lancet, the journal of the British Medical Society, asserting that sanctions were responsible for the deaths of 567,000 Iraqi children.


from an article by David Cortright originally published in The Nation, Dec 3, 2001. (can be found here http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/sanction/iraq1/sanclook.htm )

and yes those are UN sanctions, not US sanctions. i assume the previous poster just made a typo.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: Krishna]
    #4411283 - 07/16/05 10:04 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Ah yes, somebody wrote something in "The Nation". That definitely constitutes evidence in my book. And did you even read your entire link? I quote, "The differential between child mortality rates in northern Iraq, where the UN manages the relief program, and in the south center, where Saddam Hussein is in charge, says a great deal about relative responsibility for the continued crisis. As noted, child mortality rates have declined in the north but have more than doubled in the south-center." There's more.

I ask again, do you even read the articles or do you just stop when they make a point that you like? Go ahead, read the whole thing. Then tell me what point you were trying to use that article to make. If I knew how I'd paste the article whole. If you know how please do it.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,285
Loc: oakland
Re: 24 Iraqi children killed by suicide bomber [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4411322 - 07/16/05 10:17 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

i most certainly do read articles before i post them... the article goes on to say that other studies found the numbers to be less, and mentioned as well the discrepency with the mortality rates for southern iraq, and the northern kurdish self-autonomous region

Quote:

Ali, a researcher at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, and Shah, an analyst for the World Health Organization in Geneva, conducted a demographic survey for UNICEF in cooperation with the government of Iraq. In early 1999 their study surveyed 40,000 households in south-central Iraq and in the northern Kurdish zone. In south-central Iraq, child mortality rates rose from 56 per 1,000 births for the period 1984-89 to 131 per 1,000 for the period 1994-99. In the autonomous Kurdish region in the north, Ali and Shah found that child mortality rates actually fell during the same period, from 80 per 1,000 births to 72 per 1,000.




what does that mean? well, that in the areas that Saddam had less tight control over, UN aid relief was able to help out. in the areas that Saddam had more control over, UN aid relief was thwarted.

however the article goes on

Quote:

Garfield has recently recalculated his numbers, based on the additional findings of the Ali and Shah study, to arrive at an estimate of approximately 350,000 through 2000. Most of these deaths are associated with sanctions, according to Garfield, but some are also attributable to destruction caused by the Gulf War air campaign, which dropped 90,000 tons of bombs in forty-three days, a far more intensive attack than the current strikes against Afghanistan.




so even with the aid coming from the UN helping out in the northern autonomous regions, sanctions still caused a lot of deaths. of course, one might argue that if Saddam wasn't such an ass, had just stepped out of power, etc - then the sanctions would have stopped, aid could have come to the southern regions, and this whole thing could have been avoided. however, Saddam was an ass, he didn't step out of power - and the UN knew this - and still continued its policy of sanctions.

the point of this article was the point out that UN sanctions did - according to nearly all of the research done in this field - have a very detrimental effect on the iraqi population, specifically on child-mortality rates. please don't accuse me of not reading what i post, etc - that is unfounded and i find it personally hurtful, as i spend quite a bit of time researching and 'investigating' the points that i post on this board. and, in my opinion, there was no need to post a full-text of this article (you can do so by highlighting all the text, clicking ctrl-c, and then coming back to the post window and clicking ctrl-v), as it was quite irrelevant to the topic at hand - i just used to it quote some statistics from research in the topic of child mortality and UN sanctions.


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