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Offlineblackout
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Photo added of burnt grain. How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized?
    #4398706 - 07/13/05 04:41 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

This link was saying 1.5hrs at 200C, not specificially for grains.
http://www.delta.edu/jahoward/203ex2lecturenotes2004.html

This one says 160C for 2 hours and 170C for 1 hour, it the says "Note increasing T by 10 degrees shortens the sterilizing time by 50 percent" I don't know think they mean every 10 degrees, as it soon would be in minutes, i.e. 7.5minutes at 200C.

http://textbookofbacteriology.net/control.html


In a few textbooks I have it has huge times at 120C and it lowers dramatically at 140C.
When I microwaved dry grain before I measured it as 135C, I beleive it was really about 140-150C as it took a few minutes for the temp to register. Yesterday I actually burnt grain in the microwave, it was giving off smoke. I don't know what temp it reached. I have it soaking now, it turned the water black. I will boil it up in a few days and inoculate. Hopefully any remaining endospores will germinate in that time and be killed by a simple boiling.

Will overheating the grain like this destroy the nutrients? Yeast can still grow on roasted grains, like guinness.


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Edited by blackout (07/15/05 01:50 PM)


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: blackout]
    #4398876 - 07/13/05 07:19 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Will overheating the grain like this destroy the nutrients




Not sure but it doesn't sound like the best thing ya can do to ur grain......:smirk: lol

-Gnostic


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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4398886 - 07/13/05 07:38 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Works well for guinness :toast: :guinness:


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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: blackout]
    #4407550 - 07/15/05 01:49 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Heres the pics. I microwaved 100g of dry grain and it started to smoke. Must have gotten to very high temps possibly killing the endospores. Boiling water was added and it was left at 25C for 3 days. Then rinsed and microwaved for 40mins. So whos betting it won't contam and will be able to fruit off this?


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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: blackout]
    #4407829 - 07/15/05 03:24 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

What kind of grain is that? To me it looks nasty as hell and I dont think youve got a shot in hell of getting it to colonize, let alone fruit. But all of them things youve been microwaving look like shit to me when done and didnt look like theyd colonize or fruit either and the rest have worked so far LOL. I'm still gonna say it wont work, just so I can be difficult though :smile:


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"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

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Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4414431 - 07/17/05 12:52 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

It is wheat grain. People have grown on coffee beans which are roasted so I think it is in with a chance, I don't expect it to perform as well as normal grain, it will now have a high carbon content, not sure if that is a good thing. Also not sure if the roasting would have altered the ph


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Edited by blackout (07/17/05 12:55 PM)


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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: blackout]
    #4414521 - 07/17/05 01:13 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

60 min. at 250F. will work unless you have a very large packed PC which I would then suggest 1.5hrs.. At 300F. 30-45 min. should work. Now at 250C-300C (482F.-572F.) you'll be getting yourself into more trouble than it's worth. GL


--------------------
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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: hyphae]
    #4414633 - 07/17/05 01:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I was talking of dry heat sterilizing rather than using a PC, I should have made it clearer in my original post.

In TMC they talk of modifiying a PC to operate at 30psi, haven't seen anybody here doing it. It is quite simple on some PCs.


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: blackout]
    #4414634 - 07/17/05 01:52 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

how, tie a fishing weight to the rocker?


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Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4414682 - 07/17/05 02:07 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah pretty much, but I don't recommend it unless the manufacturer says it can be done, and you have calculated the additional weight correctly


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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: blackout]
    #4414692 - 07/17/05 02:10 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Is additional weight exponantial or linear to psi?

Knowing that, a simple equasion would yeild the answer. I'd be more worried about structural deficiencies in the pc itself not allowing for the added internal pressures.

I'd tread lightly on this one for sure.


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4414733 - 07/17/05 02:29 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

It should be linear. So if your 15psi weight is 50g, you would add another 50g to get to 30psi. With the narrow holes it may not be as simple as that, you would need to know the exact design. If you have a PC with various rocker weights you could weigh them and see if they are proportional the the pressure they produce, i.e. the 5psi weight should be 1/3 of the 15psi one. The manufacturer would tell you if it can handle extra pressure. I would presume most would simply say it cannot, so they wouldn't be liable.

Dangerous stuff to be messing with.


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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: blackout]
    #4415048 - 07/17/05 04:15 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Most PC's have a safety plug that will blowout at a set psi. Also dry heat is considerably less effective than wet heat and can reak havok with your moisture content which is most critical to a successful grow. I ve also had a gasket blowout when I brought the pressure up to fast, that tolled ten years off my life!


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: hyphae]
    #4415213 - 07/17/05 05:05 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Relatively low dry heats are less effective, i.e. take longer. Higher temps have dramatically less time needed. Most textbooks I have seen only quote TDT's at 140C, online I have seen some at 200C but nothing much above this. Moisture loss is not an issue if you weigh the grain in the first instance. My plan would be microwaving large bowls of grain in the microwave, possibly killing all endospores. Then they could be loaded into jars with the correct water content and simply steamed or microwaved (additional water is needed in the microwave to allow for moisture loss).


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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: blackout]
    #4415374 - 07/17/05 05:35 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not sure I follow moisture loss is not an issue if you weigh the grain in the first place? Are you saying you would be compensating for the moisture loss during dry heat sterilization? I know even when PCing there is moisture loss so I myself compensate always. Hard for me even to think about turning on the oven with as hot as it's been around here (AC's working overtime!)


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: hyphae]
    #4417926 - 07/18/05 05:57 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Say your jar is 300g, you add 200g rye and want 200ml water. When you dry cook the grain it may come out 180g. You want your final jar with grain to weigh 300+200+200=jar+rye+water. So add water to your now total dry grain to bring it to 700g and steam it, or add water until it is about 800g, then microwave it until it drops to 700g. The more grain you use the less accurate a scale you can get aways with using.


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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: blackout]
    #4418105 - 07/18/05 08:19 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not sure but that sounds like alot more work than I'd like to do. Adding water once is IMHO more appealing to me. I suppose this will be helpful to all those not using a PC but want to step up to grains. I will always recommend a PC when doing grains, they can be had cheap on E-Bay too. GL blackout


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: hyphae]
    #4480216 - 08/01/05 08:19 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Well I injected spores and got no growth. I had given up on it and decided to put a bit of fresh tissue in the jar. I opened a fresh shroom and tore out some inner stem and tossed it in (no glove box, just fast action). It stuck to the side of the jar and looked dead the next day, about 3 days after there was signs of life. Now there is some nice rhizo growth on the grains, I will leave a while before shaking the jar.

I have toasted some other grains, only slightly. I then soaked them with boiling water and will incubate 24hrs. Then I will microwave toast them again until bone dry and add LC when cool.


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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: blackout]
    #4498843 - 08/05/05 05:35 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)





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Re: How long would rye grain need to be at 250C or 300C to be sterilized? [Re: blackout]
    #4537038 - 08/15/05 09:09 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)



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