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 mikeyboy
Stranger
Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 1,152
Loc: UK
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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 Ego Loss 
#4391503 - 07/11/05 04:13 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ego Loss has fascinated me for a while now and i'm asking anyone who have experienced it to share their thoughts and feelings about it.
From what i have read it would seem that nobody is ever ready to have their perception of existance torn away from them, and that it is very hard to let go.
What's it like... ?
One minute your fighting and then ...  Whoosh... ?
You become one with the world and everything around it and appreciate things for what they truley are.
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LSD: Defrag for the brain
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
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 Re: Ego Loss [Re: mikeyboy]
#4391614 - 07/11/05 06:20 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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> What's it like... ?
If what I have had is egoloss, then I can only describe what I remember of it, not what it is.
I was sitting, looking at the carpet, while tripping. The fabric of the carpet was making wild patterns and I thought it would be a pretty cool screen saver. I started to pay attention to the flow of the patterns, trying to figure out the mathmatics behind the changes, so that I could model it later. I got so caught up in the patterns and trying to figure out what was going on that I never noticed what was happening. All of the sudden, I realize that something was different... that reality had left the building... and with a flood of panic I shoot back to the world. I could look back at what happened, and remember parts of it, like remembering a dream... but I couldn't tell you exactly what happened. The experience changed my life, forever.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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alsey
meet me in thedreamtimewater...
Registered: 02/17/05
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Re: Ego Loss [Re: mikeyboy]
#4391641 - 07/11/05 06:52 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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i've experienced it twice. the first time was the 'worst' trip i've ever had, absolute hell up to the point of ego-loss. i thought i was going to go completely insane, somehow lose my conciousness and become nothing more than an animal. i knew relatively little about the psychedelic experience at the time and i literally fought to the death. i never let go as such, the drug simply won and temporarily destroyed my ego. the egoless state is completely indescribable, there are feelings and sensations that you cannot really imagine until you've experienced it. once i was past the point of ego-death, it was ecstacy, although after the trip i was troubled and confused about what happened.
the second time, i reached the same point somewhat intentionally. i read the psychedelic experience several times and tried to apply what leary wrote. again there was a nasty spot, but this time i managed to accept what was happening. this time, the egoless state lasted probably not more than a few seconds. feelings of omnipresence, complete loss of all notions of individuality. the body lying on the bed was just another part of the universe. the afterglow from that trip lasted about a week. it was awesome.
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"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana
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Oakbear
Trust me, I'm anurse!
Registered: 05/08/05
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Loc: UK
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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 Re: Ego Loss [Re: mikeyboy]
#4391645 - 07/11/05 06:55 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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My first experience i would term ego loss was on 40g wet Yangoon strain Cubensis.
Somewhere around the peak it occured to me i could not remember my own name, and my mind was free of any of those mundane thoughts which tie you to who you are on a day to day basis. Work, family, politics, how i define mysef, I couldn't think of any of them.
It didn't matter, i was happy to simply be.
Very liberating, but kind of scary.
I learnt how little i am in the scheme of things, a tiny part of one huge 'something'.
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mikeyboy
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Re: Ego Loss [Re: Oakbear]
#4391730 - 07/11/05 08:03 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks for the input gentlemen, sure does sound interesting... 
I thaught it would be a longish episode, but as Seuss mentioned he had it for a matter of seconds. Could that have been mistaken for a thaught loop perhaps? I've been trapped in a loop on about 30/40g mexicans once, i got a text message and didnt know who it was from and as i sat there with my phone everything around me was a blurr and my mind was racing to think who could have sent it (confusion overload) and i couldn't snap out of it without someones help.
Alsey you mentioned about it being scary the first time i think this is the common concensus, when you're not expecting it you can think you're going mad!  I've heard many people say how they "forgot" they were on a psychedelic and thus this is (in myoppinion) the reason they may panic and think they're going insane.
Oakbear - I love you're explanation of "just being" and i can only hope to achieve that state soon   I can associate with not having a single worry and simply existing in the infinite array of life, sounds awesome Also you're phrase "I learnt how little i am in the scheme of things, a tiny part of one huge 'something'" <- Love it! 
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LSD: Defrag for the brain
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Oakbear
Trust me, I'm anurse!
Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 408
Loc: UK
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: Ego Loss [Re: mikeyboy]
#4391750 - 07/11/05 08:13 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Regards timing, i have no idea how long it was. Time seemed irrelevant. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 10 seconds or 30 minutes.
It felt good at the time, and i didn't fight, there didn't seem any point. The trip turned bad later, but long after the 'ego loss'. I think i was fighting to reconstruct myself, but was too gone to do a decent job!
I would have like to say i 'met God', and maybe i did, but it wasn't like that. What was there was real, no fanfares or pzaz, just how it is.
Similar 'ego loss' since hasn't been as intense, and has been very brief. Perhaps thought loops, although i don't tend to get loops too much personally.
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alsey
meet me in thedreamtimewater...
Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 1,203
Last seen: 15 years, 21 days
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Re: Ego Loss [Re: mikeyboy]
#4391839 - 07/11/05 09:13 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
mikeyboy said:
Alsey you mentioned about it being scary the first time i think this is the common concensus, when you're not expecting it you can think you're going mad! I've heard many people say how they "forgot" they were on a psychedelic and thus this is (in myoppinion) the reason they may panic and think they're going insane.
yeah, i didn't so much forget, it was more like i stopped thinking rationally and thought that the drug would turn me insane permanently. i also had this feeling that my entire conciousness was being eaten away, when really, it was just changing into a different state.
as for duration, the egoless state doesn't last long in my experience. once you're in it, time is meaningless, but i have sat for other people and it seems to last a couple of minutes at the most. once any thought of 'i' enters your head, any notion that you are a discrete individual, you rapidly fly back to consensus reality. you'll still be tripping, but it is very much 'reality' compared to the egoless state. again, i'm speaking only from my experience.
its not really like a thought loop. to use your example, there is you and there is the phone, and the thought loop, in the egoless state, there is no 'you' and no 'phone'. its all continuous. nothing is discrete. the recognition of a phone being something different to you will quickly bring your ego back. you must be one with the phone, the text message, the thought loop, everything.
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"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana
Edited by alsey (07/11/05 09:20 AM)
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hempknight
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Registered: 05/18/05
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Re: Ego Loss [Re: alsey]
#4391872 - 07/11/05 09:34 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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i dont get the point of losing ones ego? why is this a desirable effect from mushrooms? why get so fucked up that you cant remember your name? and why is this so appealing and such a clich?? Excuse me if im not caught up in the pretentious mumbo jumbo.. but what the fuck
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mikeyboy
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Many people equate it to "finding god" or "seeing the light"
You become one with the Universe (what many people believe happens when you die) each atomic particle of everything. At total peace with the infinite existance so to speak.
Your perceptions of "self" are swept away and you do not perceive yourself to exist on the everyday level.
Anyone else care to elaborate?
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LSD: Defrag for the brain
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alsey
meet me in thedreamtimewater...
Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 1,203
Last seen: 15 years, 21 days
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Quote:
hempknight said:
i dont get the point of losing ones ego? why is this a desirable effect from mushrooms? why get so fucked up that you cant remember your name? and why is this so appealing and such a clich?? Excuse me if im not caught up in the pretentious mumbo jumbo.. but what the fuck
its the best feeling i've ever had from a drug. better than ecstacy, better than heroin. its bliss. nirvana. heaven. whatever you want to call it.
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"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana
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 mecreateme
YoUisMEEMsiUoY
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 2,727
Loc: Memphrica
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It is like finding the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
Don't get scared by the semantics, it is the most liberating and terrifying thing you could ever comprehend. It is living as the Universe.
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No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.
You are everything's way of feeling itself.
Happy Schwag, everygodly!
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
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Re: Ego Loss [Re: mikeyboy]
#4395070 - 07/12/05 05:43 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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> I thaught it would be a longish episode, but as Seuss mentioned he had it for a matter of seconds.
I never claimed that it lasted only a matter of seconds... time stops... I was not aware of what was happening until it was over. It could have been a few seconds or a few hours.
> Could that have been mistaken for a thaught loop perhaps?
The thought loop is what opens the gate. When the thinking mind gets stuck in a loop, the rest of the mind is able to explore. When the thinking mind realizes it is caught in a loop, reality returns.
> my mind was racing to think who could have sent it (confusion overload) and i couldn't snap out of it without someones help.
Same thing for me with trying to figure out the match behind the patterns... except rather than somebody pulling me back, I (unknowningly) gave in to the experience.
Again, I don't know if what I have experienced is ego-loss or not. I suspect it is, based upon what I have read. It wasn't that I became an animal, or left my body, or turned into a couch cusion... rather, judgement went away. There was no difference between red and blue, there was no difference between love and hate, there was no difference between good and bad; what happens simply happens because it is meant to happen, not because of some value we place upon the event. Everything that is, and everything that isn't became me, and I became a part of it... total bliss, at one with "", undescribable love... and while all of this is happening, the part of me that was aware and thinking about stuff was caught up doing something else... it wasn't until the experience was over that the part of me that is aware was able to look back and try to make sense of what happened.
> it being scary the first time i think this is the common concensus
The fear comes as the ego looses control, or realizes that it has lost control. I suspect this is often what leads people into bad trips... the ego fighting the drug to maintain control. Surrender is key.
> i can only hope to achieve that state soon
Welcome to duality... the harder you try, the more it will ellude you... but if you don't try at all, you will never find it. The trick is to set the stage and let what happens happen... don't try to force the issue. Give a low dose a try, just enough to get some visuals, coupled with meditation. Rather than playing with the visuals, find a nice quiet spot and let yourself get lost in the patterns.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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nightkrawler
explorer
Registered: 06/18/04
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Loc: new england
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Re: Ego Loss [Re: Seuss]
#4397104 - 07/12/05 06:24 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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check out this thread: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post4237869
it's the only time i have ever experienced complete ego loss. it was one of the scariest things that has ever happened to me. with salvia everything happens so fast. i went from 100% sober to tripping harder than i have ever tripped in my life in just a few short seconds. i had completely forgotten that i had taken any sort of drug at all.
that happened probably a month and a half ago. i tripped for the first time since then on the 4th of july on an eighth of shrooms. the shrooms trip i had wasnt very hard, but i remembered A LOT about that salvia trip. i remembered the feeling i got when the salvia just started to kick in. i remember seeing the world as it was, then BAM, the world kind of went black for a second and i went into my own head. i remember when i was on shrooms i was thinking that i knew exactly what it was like to die, because the feeling of ego death, was death itself. i was thinking i know what it's like to die. i did know what it was like. i kind of do right now, but it's not nearly as vivid and clear as it was when i was tripping. i could almost relive what i felt from the salvia in the mushroom trip.
i remember thinking that when i actually do die, it won't come as as much of a shock to me, cause i know exactly what it's like.
intense stuff.
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Not all who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien
Edited by nightkrawler (07/12/05 06:33 PM)
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Kalix
'Head
Registered: 03/20/05
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It happened to me on 65 mg of 99.5% pure 2CI, not a recommendable dose to anyone who has not tried, and befriended this chemical, how it started for me was I suddenly noticed a light coming up the stairs from the basement, and mistook it for the shockwave of a nuclear explosion, I started repeating a strange little mantra to myself "This thought is the last thought I will ever have before the Shockwave tears my flesh off my bones" I said it over, and over, for about 45 minutes..
At about 45 minutes after I started my death mantra, I happened to look at the clock, and notice that almost an hour had passed, and nothing had ripped my flesh off my bones, so I thought to myself "Whoa I better take it easy here".. I took a deep breath, laid back and BOOM! my body died, I watched as it decomposed, and became a fossil, the fossil eventually broke down, and was mined as oil, by some creatures that vaguely resembled humans 100's of thousands of years in the future, they processed the oil that I had become into a sort of plastic, and used it to build a vehicle, over eons, the plastiic I had become broke down, and I was a molecule of vapor, I ended up in a water supply, and was evaporated into the atmosphere..
In the atmosphere, I was dancing euphorically with all the other molecules, and could actually look down on the earth from miles above.. It was completely amazing, I think this experience qualifies as ego-death, because as far as I knew, my life as a human being was over, and my energy was just being recycled through batural processes.. It was pretty amazing once I got over the fact that the nuclear armageddon wasn't happening!
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My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason
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Lysergic_Milkman
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Re: Ego Loss [Re: Kalix]
#4397453 - 07/12/05 07:56 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's insane...
I remember my first experience of ego loss, considering it was the most intense, and longest lasting. It had to have gone on for atleat an hour. I ate some fresh shrooms, i don't remember how many, but the first thing i decided to do after i started to feel the effects was to take a shower.
When i got in i knew exactly who i was, and as the steam started to get hotter and thicker i slowly slipped into bliss (or Ecstasy, or nirvana, whatever you want to call it), the patterns all over the glass and the tile wall were the most beautiful thing i can remember (except maybe the wood grain wall of my room after-wards). When the water started getting cool and the steam withered, i decided to end my shower. As soon as i stepped out into the biting air of the bathroom, i felt as if i had been reborn as a new entity of energy. I could remember bits of the old me, but it didn't matter, i was new, and i had a new name (the old one i couldn't remember, and i didn't care to remember). I looked at my body and i had a vision of my rebirth, i was only an infant in my new body and had an intense craving to test it out, to learn new things.
I toyed with my new mind for [what seemed like] a few hours, contemplating existence and calculating the center of the universe.
After a while, i realized that i was naked, and my innocence in egolessness was shattered, bringing me back to reality...
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Oakbear
Trust me, I'm anurse!
Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 408
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Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Quote:
hempknight said:
i dont get the point of losing ones ego? why is this a desirable effect from mushrooms? why get so fucked up that you cant remember your name? and why is this so appealing and such a clich?? Excuse me if im not caught up in the pretentious mumbo jumbo.. but what the fuck
It wasn't just i had forgotton my name, but who i was in terms of how i define myself.
Yeah it's full of cliche, but i for one can think of better ways to describe it. I was skeptical (but open minded) regards whether ego loss really existed until it happened.
It's more subtle than just a high, and it isn't about being fucked up. It is a new way of looking at the world and yourself. Sorry for the cliche, but kind of like becoming a new person or being reborn. It's the same you, but somehow everything is different from then onwards.
Some shamanic culutres refer to dying and returning during journeying, and i guess this is what they mean?
Maybe you can't understand until you have experienced it. I don't think i did.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
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Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
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Re: Ego Loss [Re: Oakbear]
#4398880 - 07/13/05 05:28 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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> i dont get the point of losing ones ego?
It allows one to experience the world without duality... for a short eternity everything makes sense... imagine getting to have a face to face conversation with reality.
> why is this a desirable effect from mushrooms?
The same state of mind can be achieved through meditation, though it takes much more time and practice.
> why get so fucked up that you cant remember your name?
I agree, I never understood why people do this. An escape, I suppose. However, this has nothing at all to do with egoloss. I find it much easier to achieve the state of mind on a low dosage trip than a large one. The experience isn't created by getting so messed up that you can't think, but rather it is created by becoming so focused that the judgemental part of your mind goes to sleep.
> why is this so appealing and such a clich??
See my answer to your first question (and last one). 
> Excuse me if im not caught up in the pretentious mumbo jumbo
The "pretentious mumbo jumbo" is simply your ignorance of the experience. I used to think the same thing, so I understand. There is nothing I can say or do that will show you what I mean. I can describe the taste of chocolate all day long, but until you eat some, you can only guess as to what it really tastes like.
Only about half of the descriptions I read of egoloss match up with what I have experienced. The remainder tend to fall into your "why get so fucked up that you cant remember your name?" category, which is certainly not egoloss, at least based upon my own experiences. Being in a dream like state, or alternate reality, such as what happens with Salvia is a good example of this. Just because reality has gone away does not mean that the ego has been silenced.
The following descriptions (taken from this thread) match up with my experiences:
You become one with the Universe.
At total peace with the infinite.
You do not perceive yourself to exist.
Once you're in it, time is meaningless.
There is no 'you' and no 'phone'.
I would have like to say i 'met God'.
Wow, Alsey's descriptions easily describe my own experiences:
Quote:
the egoless state is completely indescribable, there are feelings and sensations that you cannot really imagine until you've experienced it. once i was past the point of ego-death, it was ecstacy, although after the trip i was troubled and confused about what happened.
Quote:
feelings of omnipresence, complete loss of all notions of individuality. the body lying on the bed was just another part of the universe. the afterglow from that trip lasted about a week. it was awesome.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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