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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4409558 - 07/15/05 11:02 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Smallworlds said:
Well, you could start by allowing the American people to hear what their complaints are, be human enough to admit that perhaps these "terrorists" represent those who America has oppressed over the years, and let the American people decide what to do about their complaints.




What are their complaints? Surely you know and aren't one of those barbeque americans.


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: looner2]
    #4409576 - 07/15/05 11:06 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I italicize because those labeled terrorists are really just people with no way out.

What would I tell them? I'd tell them that America will start paying them a fair price for their oil, quit depleting their countries' natural resources and pissing it off driving SUV's while we pay them pennies and they ride camels, that America will be legalizing weed, and other harmless drugs tomorrow, and that all we want is peace.


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: looner2]
    #4409610 - 07/15/05 11:12 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Quote:

Smallworlds said:
Well, you could start by allowing the American people to hear what their complaints are, be human enough to admit that perhaps these "terrorists" represent those who America has oppressed over the years, and let the American people decide what to do about their complaints.




What are their complaints? Surely you know and aren't one of those barbeque americans.




Oh but I am one of those barbeque Americans. My government has lied to it's people for years, and still lies. Their specific complaints are never broadcast for us to hear, because they may contain a "message to terrorists".

However even a blind man knows when the sun is shining, and I can see what the rough outline of the situation must be.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4409632 - 07/15/05 11:17 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Actually, if you look at the demography of many of these terrorists, they are not poor people.


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4409662 - 07/15/05 11:22 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Actually, if you look at the demography of many of these terrorists, they are not poor people.




Then why aren't they barbequing?


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4409674 - 07/15/05 11:24 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Smallworlds said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
Actually, if you look at the demography of many of these terrorists, they are not poor people.




Then why aren't they barbequing?




I feel really stupid. Barbequing? I don't understand what you mean (I'm serious, not fucking with you).


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4409723 - 07/15/05 11:33 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

What I meant was this: America counts on the fact that their people are well-fed and live a life of luxury, at least compared to lots of other nations. Why should Americans care what their government is doing abroad as long as the briquettes are glowing?

On the other hand, these well-funded terrorists do not kick back and ignore what is going on because:

#1 Their countries are being fucked by America.

#2 They feel like being "activists" to support their people.

Just because they are rich does not mean that they will ignore what America does to oppress their countrymen.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4409748 - 07/15/05 11:37 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I beg to differ. Though there obviously are many who are fighting b/c they believe what is happening in their countries is wrong, it would be foolish not admit there are many out there who fight to try to achieve unobtainable goals (regain of Muslim Spain, only Muslims in the Arabian Peninsula). Though I believe that some of their grievances are legitimate (a Palestinian state, and a pull-out from Iraq), others are just absurd.


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4409750 - 07/15/05 11:38 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

And perhaps these "terrorists" believe that if they can destroy what's left of our civil liberties, more Americans will wake the fuck up and restore their government to common sense.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4409760 - 07/15/05 11:39 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Smallworlds said:
And perhaps these "terrorists" believe that if they can destroy what's left of our civil liberties, more Americans will wake the fuck up and restore their government to common sense.




You don't honestly think that's one of their goals, do you?


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4409785 - 07/15/05 11:45 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Don't get me wrong now...I despise all acts of violence, including terrorist acts. But I feel it a much more reasonable stance to take in evaluating:

"What made those people so angry?"

"What could we have done differently so that these people would not have felt forced to do what they did?"

"Is my government doing the same thing to those people as they are doing to me and my countrymen concerning marijuanna? Namely, ignoring all of the muffled cries and using brute force to impliment their will in the matter?"

Rather than just sucking Uncle Sam's dick and saying: "Let's not negotiate with the terrorists."?


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4409791 - 07/15/05 11:46 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

Smallworlds said:
And perhaps these "terrorists" believe that if they can destroy what's left of our civil liberties, more Americans will wake the fuck up and restore their government to common sense.




You don't honestly think that's one of their goals, do you?




Not really, but it's been a rather interesting side-effect which a thinking terrorist may have noticed.


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Offlinenightkrawler
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4409940 - 07/16/05 12:31 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

i think you are hopelessly optimistic smallworlds.

there will always be insane people in this world, with non tolerant views of other cultures and societies. there will always be people who will try to push their idealogies and morals on to other people.

lets go over some hypothetical situations here.

lets say for example that america were to legalize drugs. there will be other countries with extremist groups of people who would see the united states as a land of sin. mexico is below us, canada is above us, they're in our sphere of influence. after we legalize drugs, canada could be next, then mexico, then eventually the countries south of mexico. then like that, drugs are completely legal on 2 continents. it could only be a matter of time that a country in europe follows in americas footsteps, then before you know it, europe could have drugs legalized. extremist groups would want to get rid of the threat of legal drugs while it's still small, before it overwhelmes everyone. they will do everything in their power to destroy us, because the whole world would be better off without us in their opinions. there will always be people with strong viewpoints condemning other people. it's the way the world works.

people get brainwashed by the society that they live in. much of the reason that al qaeda doesn't like us is because we are so different from them. women in the USA can walk amongst the streets with their faces uncovered. it's unheard of to do that in many parts of the middle east. granted, not all of them want to kill us for it, but there are a small percent of extremists who do, and with so many people in this world, all you need is a small percent to stir up trouble. there are people who want to destroy us for working on sundays, or saturdays, or whatever days because it's supposed to be a day of rest, because that's what some book says. it's a shame that the world is like this, but it is. and i'm not saying that we're completely innocent either.

most people here have the attitude why kill someone when you can get high with them? i agree, but other people don't, and those other people are the people who's opinion matters most, because they are the ones who act against us. and how do they act against us? they dont have big armies to go against everyone, they operate in small terrorists groups, where a single person can crash a plane into a building killing thousands. they try to strike fear into us.

i'm sorry if i kind of went off on a tangent. this is what happens when you make posts when you're high and overanalyze things :smile: i like everything you have to say smallworlds, i just think that it isn't very realistic.

:mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: nightkrawler]
    #4411063 - 07/16/05 10:03 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, but the reason it's like that is because the climate has been made ideal for such nonsense.

Most people would rather get high with other people rather than killing them given the opportnity, which is why the corrupt governments hate drugs which foster peace, love, and understanding.

Loving life is contageous, and if the climate were made ideal for the spread of peace, love, and understanding the violence could very well fade away into obscurity and rarity indeed.

Your government has gone to great lengths to make people afraid and unaware, were this artificial condition to be somehow undone, nature could take it's course and people could live as one.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: nightkrawler]
    #4411220 - 07/16/05 11:34 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lets go over some hypothetical situations here.

lets say for example that america were to legalize drugs. there will be other countries with extremist groups of people who would see the united states as a land of sin. mexico is below us, canada is above us, they're in our sphere of influence. after we legalize drugs, canada could be next, then mexico, then eventually the countries south of mexico. then like that, drugs are completely legal on 2 continents. it could only be a matter of time that a country in europe follows in americas footsteps, then before you know it, europe could have drugs legalized. extremist groups would want to get rid of the threat of legal drugs while it's still small, before it overwhelmes everyone. they will do everything in their power to destroy us, because the whole world would be better off without us in their opinions. there will always be people with strong viewpoints condemning other people. it's the way the world works.




i know it says "hypothetical"..but the reality is that europe and canada have semi-legalized drugs and america is reacting against it...

Quote:

much of the reason that al qaeda doesn't like us is because we are so different from them. women in the USA can walk amongst the streets with their faces uncovered. it's unheard of to do that in many parts of the middle east.




women dont wear burkhas in most countries..and al-Q isnt trying to blow them up...IMNSHO..the reason there are ppl that want to blow up america is because is in fact as evil as OBL claims...however autocratic islamic culture might be in reality..it still pales in comparison to what we have become...


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4411231 - 07/16/05 11:38 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Smallworlds said:
Yes, but the reason it's like that is because the climate has been made ideal for such nonsense.

Most people would rather get high with other people rather than killing them given the opportnity, which is why the corrupt governments hate drugs which foster peace, love, and understanding.

Loving life is contageous, and if the climate were made ideal for the spread of peace, love, and understanding the violence could very well fade away into obscurity and rarity indeed.

Your government has gone to great lengths to make people afraid and unaware, were this artificial condition to be somehow undone, nature could take it's course and people could live as one.




now im going to turn around and play devils' advocate ..how do you address the arguement that the climate is such out of economic necessity..and our own ppl would starve or freeze to death if it were otherwise?...


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4411518 - 07/16/05 01:38 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Smallworlds said:
On the other hand, these well-funded terrorists do not kick back and ignore what is going on because:

#1 Their countries are being fucked by America.

#2 They feel like being "activists" to support their people.



You know, your arguments might have a little more credibility if you could be a little more specific than "being fucked by America". HOW are they being "fucked"? Examples, please.


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4411556 - 07/16/05 01:51 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

As such:

"Economic nescessity" is a far cry from reality. "Economic nescessity" to most fat Americans means being able to drive SUV's, crank the heat to 80 in the winter, eat gourmet foods, etc. etc.

Is it also because of "economic nescessity" that combined, most U.S. restaurants throw away enough food each day to feed several countries where people are starving right now?

Is it "economic nescessity" really, or is it wasting valuable commodities while other "underdeveloped" countries' peoples freeze and starve to death today, right now?

America does not wish to co-exist peacefully with the rest of the world, it wants to dominate it, dictate policy to it by way of force (death), and then use the basically stolen resources to live in the lap of luxury and waste, waste, waste it all foolishly.

America is already causing untold death, poverty, disease, starvation, pain, and suffering to many, many peoples of the world with it's fat-cat policies of greed.

So I ask you, oh devil's advocate, what of these people's "economic nescessities"?


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4411572 - 07/16/05 01:56 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Smallworlds said:
On the other hand, these well-funded terrorists do not kick back and ignore what is going on because:

#1 Their countries are being fucked by America.

#2 They feel like being "activists" to support their people.



You know, your arguments might have a little more credibility if you could be a little more specific than "being fucked by America". HOW are they being "fucked"? Examples, please.




With no grease.

We occupy their lands, steal their resources, dictate policy, install governments etc. etc.

How is all of that not equal to them getting fucked?

Examples? Do I need to collect a drop of rain, put it into a little baggie and mail it to you before you'll believe that it is raining?


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: "we dont negotiate with terrorists...we hunt them down"... [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4411782 - 07/16/05 03:20 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

>> "Economic nescessity" is a far cry from reality. "Economic nescessity" to most fat Americans means being able to drive SUV's, crank the heat to 80 in the winter, eat gourmet foods, etc. etc.

its not that simple ..all those SUVs..etc fund the value of the dollar..and if we suddenly decided to shitcan the SUVs in favour of avoiding wars..then the price of those SUVs will become an equivalent amount of inflation...inflation is a form of taxation-without-representation..to which americans are viscerally averse...furthermore..you cant eat a green piece of paper..which is all you have when the goods that gave it value suddenly become worthless...

>> Is it "economic nescessity" really, or is it wasting valuable commodities while other "underdeveloped" countries' peoples freeze and starve to death today, right now?

i dont dispute that its inefficient..but you dont know that there still wont be enough energy to go around even if we were living at maximum efficiency...


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