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Invisibledownforpot
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Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
Blood of Patriots and Tyrants
    #4390028 - 07/10/05 05:16 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure." -Thomas F. Jefferson

Discuss!!!!! I have been thinking about this quote for a few weeks now and I am loving it. I wonder how Bush would answer to it.


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http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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InvisibleKrishna
कृष्ण,LOL
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Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,284
Loc: oakland
Re: Blood of Patriots and Tyrants [Re: downforpot]
    #4390119 - 07/10/05 05:59 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

i disagree 100%. 'revolution' of any violent kind will only result in shifting the balances of power - perhaps making for temporary fixes, but not changing the basic polarities with which our world (and minds) function by. the only kind of 'revolution' i'd support would be a spiritual/evolutionary one, that did away with those polarities (and thus the concept of power) entirely - and such a revolution would necessarily be 'peaceful'.


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InvisibleDieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 27,904
Re: Blood of Patriots and Tyrants [Re: Krishna]
    #4390174 - 07/10/05 06:28 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Why would it necessarily be peaceful?


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InvisibleKrishna
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Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,284
Loc: oakland
Re: Blood of Patriots and Tyrants [Re: DieCommie]
    #4390437 - 07/10/05 08:12 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Why would it necessarily be peaceful?




Quote:

Krishna said:
'revolution' of any violent kind will only result in shifting the balances of power - perhaps making for temporary fixes, but not changing the basic polarities with which our world (and minds) function by. the only kind of 'revolution' i'd support would be a spiritual/evolutionary one, that did away with those polarities (and thus the concept of power) entirely





the use of violence would only perpetuate power struggles. if you think about it - say we have 10% that own 95%. we forceably redistribute their wealth. initially they'll have no say over it, but they will get together, start bitching, start planning, etc... nietzsche explained it very well in 'Genealogy of the Morals' - the roles of master and slave will keep reversing, but neither will step outside of these roles, really. the only revolution i would support would be one that caused humanity to step outside these two power-driven roles, to step beyond being 'human' and to proceed to a 'higher' state of evolution. in my mind, such a 'revolution' couldn't be violent, for the previous reasons given - but would be more akin to consciousness expansion/enlightenment.


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Blood of Patriots and Tyrants [Re: Krishna]
    #4390599 - 07/10/05 09:12 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Krishna said:
i disagree 100%. 'revolution' of any violent kind will only result in shifting the balances of power - perhaps making for temporary fixes, but not changing the basic polarities with which our world (and minds) function by. the only kind of 'revolution' i'd support would be a spiritual/evolutionary one, that did away with those polarities (and thus the concept of power) entirely - and such a revolution would necessarily be 'peaceful'.



Jefferson's point is that there cannot be permanent fixes, man being what he is and government being what it is. Man tends towards complacency and government tends towards tyranny, it is inevitable. I don't see how anyone could disagree with that point, America being a perfect example. The overwhelmingly vast majority of Americans have no idea that government has FAR exceded the scope set for it in the Constitution, that we are nowhere near the free society most of the founders intended for us. Unfortunately this only looks good in hindsight -- I'm sure if you told Americans in 1811 (20 years after the ratification of the constitution) it was time to revolt in order to preserve their liberties they would be baffled, dumbfounded.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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