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OfflinePlasticFantastic
AspiringWoodsman
Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 144
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
I still can't positively ID Panaeolus subbalteatus!
    #4389715 - 07/10/05 02:44 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Today I was out in my lawn yet again and stumbled across many suposed Pan subbs varying in size and age. Some had the distinct ring, some had a faded ring, and some had no distinguishable ring. All of them however did have the vertical lines on the stem going up to where the cap meets, just as it is shown here:



I've read in many differnet Pan subb identification articles and posts that Panaeolina foenisecii don't have these lines, and have a brown print, so mushrooms with these lines and black prints should be subbs, correct?

These are the mushrooms I picked:



I'm making spore prints right now, so the question is:
Should I save the ones with the jet black prints?


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OfflineSweetLeaf
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Re: I still can't positively ID Panaeolus subbalteatus! [Re: PlasticFantastic]
    #4389722 - 07/10/05 02:48 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Well save all of the prints, just cause there not black doesn't mean you can throw them away and forget about em.

How do the stems feel? I've only had the luck to come across 3 specimens, all very large and with the caps very zonate.


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Ph.dizzle


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Invisiblespores
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Re: I still can't positively ID Panaeolus subbalteatus! [Re: PlasticFantastic]
    #4389769 - 07/10/05 03:07 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

in my rather uneducated opinion (panaeolus is not a genus I'm very familiar with), 80% of the recent threads with pictures claimed to be pan subbs were more likely pan foens.  of course I could be wrong as I've never seen pan subbs with my own eyes, but I think a lot of people here are jumping the gun and thinking they have subbs when they don't...

anywho, I would suggest those are foens as well.  if you want to find subbs, I'd avoid lawns and be checking compost/hay/manure piles more...

like I said, I could be wrong though :wink:, it'd probably be a good idea to wait for advice from someone more familiar with the genus...

DH


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OfflinePlasticFantastic
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Registered: 06/30/05
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Re: I still can't positively ID Panaeolus subbalteatus! [Re: spores]
    #4389891 - 07/10/05 03:59 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I know that they are found in hay and manure piles, I have found some at a horse farm that were definately subbs, the main point of this post was to ask about the vertical lines running up the stem since I was told foe's would not have those.  Thanks for the input anyway though. :smile:


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Invisiblevandago
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Re: I still can't positively ID Panaeolus subbalteatus! [Re: PlasticFantastic]
    #4389901 - 07/10/05 04:06 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Some of your mushrooms definetly appear to be subbs. The caps are very mis shapen on some and some of those stems are pretty thick.

I have also noticed a lot of people jumping the gun on foes. I found quite the haul of subbs a week or so ago and they definetly turned out to be subbs and were in a lawn. 6 grams was a strong 3 low 4 trip.

I'd say print em all and seperate what you can tell are definetly pan subbs and pan foes. I keep the mixed batches of subbs and foes as well ( when you are picking from lawns you are bound to get a decent amount of foes mixed in) considering foes aren't going to kill you.


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InvisibleMadSeasonAbove
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Re: I still can't positively ID Panaeolus subbalteatus! [Re: PlasticFantastic]
    #4389915 - 07/10/05 04:12 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.impakt.net/~tyler/subbs/

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4288875#Post4288875

The second link is where that pic is from.  the first link is made by Gumby.  I'm not sure if you havent read them or not, check 'em out. :wink:


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OfflinePlasticFantastic
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Re: I still can't positively ID Panaeolus subbalteatus! [Re: MadSeasonAbove]
    #4390436 - 07/10/05 08:12 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Some did really seem to be subbs, but in fact they all turned out to have dark brown prints (I made prints of all of them), none were jet black. So I did indeed have Panaeolina foenisecii or some other possible look alike. *How can this be when they had the vertical lines on the stem where it meets the cap?

Edit:
Thanks for the links, the first one was very informative and the second I had seen before but I re-read it and made a discovery about the grooves on the stem..

*I also retract my statement about the vertical grooves, I very carelessly missread what mjshroomer said:

"Also, Pan foenisecis do not have the vertical groves spiraling up and down the length of the stem."

Sorry about that, but at least now I know what I've been doing wrong.


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Edited by PlasticFantastic (07/10/05 08:24 PM)


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OfflineHuckleBones
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Registered: 06/16/05
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Re: I still can't positively ID Panaeolus subbalteatus! [Re: PlasticFantastic]
    #4390500 - 07/10/05 08:37 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I've eaten my subbs and I was very happy to find out that my area is INFESTED with pan subbs. You have to eat quite a bit though.


I found some huge ones the other day and I watched them get mowed. I was almost in tears.


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Manitou


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OfflineHuckleBones
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Re: I still can't positively ID Panaeolus subbalteatus! [Re: HuckleBones]
    #4390519 - 07/10/05 08:42 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

In regards to lawn mushrooms, I've actually found that the ones that I thought were subbs that had real thick, brittle stems actually printed brown.

Once you get an eye for the subbs you can usually differentiate but there are always those little brown spored surprises in the mix. Usually I'll get one or two in a batch of about 40 mushrooms. Also from my observations I've noticed that Foens can thrive on any lawn (crab grass, weeds) while Subbs seem to like the pampered lawns better ( I'm guessing this is due to fertilization and substrate needs since they aren't supposed to grow on lawns.)


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Manitou


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OfflinePlasticFantastic
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Re: I still can't positively ID Panaeolus subbalteatus! [Re: HuckleBones]
    #4390520 - 07/10/05 08:43 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Thats awsome, I've ran into a little luck at a horse farm a couple times but am getting horses at home soon so let the mushrooms follow. Hope next time you find those guys before they're savagely chopped down.


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Offlinenycomyco
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Re: I still can't positively ID Panaeolus subbalteatus! [Re: PlasticFantastic]
    #4392139 - 07/11/05 01:21 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

A few weeks ago, as I was turning over the foes in my yard just to double check, I found a larger one with closer, darker gills. I thought it might have been a subb, but I printed it and it was brown. These guys are tricky.


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Offlinewildbill
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Re: I still can't positively ID Panaeolus subbalteatus! [Re: HuckleBones]
    #4392224 - 07/11/05 01:49 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

dude your so lucky you are getting a horse thats awesome, better feed it all kinds of spores


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"ow-now-brown-cow" ~ _Ron Burgundy_


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OfflinePlasticFantastic
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Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 144
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Re: I still can't positively ID Panaeolus subbalteatus! [Re: wildbill]
    #4392887 - 07/11/05 04:58 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Hahaha yeah I'll make sure to inject some cube spores into their grain. I'm actually getting two horses, double the mushrooms! Yeah subbs are tricky little guys.


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Invisiblepsiclops
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Re: I still can't positively ID Panaeolus subbalteatus! [Re: PlasticFantastic]
    #4400669 - 07/13/05 06:47 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

those are panaaeolina foenesecii.

***Unless your cam turns black into brown, and redish into white.


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