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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
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Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
is love a lie?
    #4388959 - 07/10/05 04:17 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

is love a lie?
yes or no, how do you know?


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


Edited by crunchytoast (07/10/05 04:22 AM)


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Offlinelemon_lw
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4388993 - 07/10/05 04:26 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

nope. cause im a human and i can feel emotions. its just hard to find for some.


--------------------
In the belly of the Leviathan, one can either despair and perish, or be cheerful and persevere.-Dean Koontz


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InvisibleLe_Canard
I AM NOT A FISH!

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 93,522
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4389012 - 07/10/05 04:34 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Nope, it's certainly alive and well. I have been loved and love others in return. It does exist, even though the asshats in this world make it seem like it doesn't....


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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: lemon_lw]
    #4389027 - 07/10/05 04:45 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

isn't it possible the love you're talking about is a projection of a person's own needs?
example: a parent loves a child; but isn't that because of the meaning having a child has for that parent, rather than the child himself?
if someone has "a face only a mother could love" that means they have an ugly face

so in a sense yes love may be a lie, something based on projections not reality


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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Offlinelemon_lw
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4389040 - 07/10/05 04:51 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

just because love is a lie in certain cases doesnt mean love is a lie.


--------------------
In the belly of the Leviathan, one can either despair and perish, or be cheerful and persevere.-Dean Koontz


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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4389044 - 07/10/05 04:53 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

i guess i wonder to what degree love is about faith

that would have been a better way to ask my question.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleLe_Canard
I AM NOT A FISH!

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 93,522
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4389063 - 07/10/05 05:03 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Mmmm...no, I really don't think so. It's rather hard to explain, really. Love is (in part) genuine care and concern for the well-being and happiness of the loved one, be it friend, child, relative or even a pet. If love was just what the loved person (or creature) meant to the person loving, would they not be concerned about such esoterica such as the happiness of the loved one.

Here's some advice: "Neither be cynical about love, for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment, it is as perennial as the grass"


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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4389070 - 07/10/05 05:12 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

good point toiletduk about caring about the happiness of the loved

but i still think that could be viewed in a cynical way

ithe mother loves the son because of the meaning that having a son has for her

consequently she starts to care about the son's happiness

but this genuine care has an arbitrary foundation

IOW she may really love her son, but she only loves him because he's her son, so what's so special about that?

in that sense love could still be a lie


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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Offlinemrsautoman
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4389077 - 07/10/05 05:17 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
i guess i wonder to what degree love is about faith

that would have been a better way to ask my question.




Maybe I'm not sure exactly what you mean here, but I'll give it a go.

For me love exists completely independently of all other factors. I often feel it for no reason towards people I don't even really know. When I give love I anticipate nothing in return. Love is something that is it's own reward. That's why Jesus was the bomb. That was his whole deal. Do everything from love.

I look back on the people I've thought I've loved, and in comparison with the love I have now it's hard to reconcile the two. I've been through some pretty shitty things with the people I loved, and upon reflection it seemed the potency of my love was diminished by a lack of return. Now I realize that even though some people didn't seem to deserve or appreciate the love I tried to give, they sure as hell needed it at the time. I'm glad I was there to love them, and I can never fully express my appreciation for the love I have received that I probably did not deserve.

Loving someone should be about freedom, not chains. If you give someone your love without expectation, they can never disappoint you.


--------------------

~I was born of a voice untimely,
the so-called echo of a man's ordure~


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InvisibleLe_Canard
I AM NOT A FISH!

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 93,522
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4389087 - 07/10/05 05:22 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Well, the love between a mother and her child IS a special thing. I suppose you could talk about instinct here, and that is in play. But we humans, go far, far beyond instinct here. But who knows what love REALLY is? I sure don't. All I know is that it's a good feeling to love and be loved. I love my cat, but not just because he's my cat, and that's that.

You know, a little cynicism isn't necessarily a bad thing, but being too cynical can often blind one to the good in this world and make one bitter. (Please don't take that as a disparagement - just something for you think about :laugh: )


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4389187 - 07/10/05 08:18 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

How about unconditional love.  This is love to me. Everything else is fulfillment of our own needs. (That's not bad by the way). Unconditional love accepts everything as it is, according to it's nature and sees in all manifestation, however it appears, the light of creation, which is eternal Tao.

I wouldn't believe it possible to feel like this if I hadn't at one time experienced it. So there is no way to "prove" it. Yet it continues to be confirmed in my living and dying. :mushroom2: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinebutterflydawn
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: Icelander]
    #4389197 - 07/10/05 08:27 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

love is not a lie
love is ohh so true
and sometimes it hurts so much.


--------------------
lucidal expansion


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: butterflydawn]
    #4389224 - 07/10/05 08:54 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

when we talk about it it is often a lie.
but
you can point in its direction,
you can put all your energy into it,
you can yearn for it,
you can bask in its warmth


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: butterflydawn]
    #4389236 - 07/10/05 08:58 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

butterflydawn said:
love is not a lie
love is ohh so true
and sometimes it hurts so much.




How does love hurt?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGomp
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4389264 - 07/10/05 09:24 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

IS it loving to lie? :P


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4389292 - 07/10/05 09:51 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

It's only a lie if you thought it was something it isn't.

Are you denying that people love one another? That people fall in love?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4389391 - 07/10/05 11:20 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

What do you mean? I'm not trying to be difficult. Is there no such thing as selfless, altruistic motivation? Or, is 'love' just a bio-psychological complex that serves reproduction of our species? Do you mean love as a motive, an emotion or as a spiritual state of being?

The Greek words for love include Agape [selfless, altruistic], Eros [yearning to merge with the 'other,' whether human or divine], Philias [brotherly/sisterly affection]; and Latin (Catholic) has Caritas [charity in the King James Bible] which is a combination of the Greek Agape and Eros.

My cousin visited me recently. She 'loves' everything: this movie, that car, this actor, etc., etc. That is the common, meaningless use of the English word 'love.' If I 'love' chocolate and I 'love' you, do the two 'loves' equate? I hate to say this but, please define your term.  :confused:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4389476 - 07/10/05 12:22 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
is love a lie?
yes or no, how do you know?




love is love. It doesn't matter what is it made of (selfish needs or not) It makes the world a better place and that is all that there is to know about it. If it aint broken, don't fix it.

If love is selfish, then let's be selfish and love each other


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblemoog
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Registered: 02/15/05
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4389483 - 07/10/05 12:25 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

That depends on what your definition of love is.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: is love a lie? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4389494 - 07/10/05 12:32 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

all I know is that love is within me.

its the rest of the world I'm unsure about.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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