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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Tom Robbins on Buddhism
    #4387689 - 07/09/05 08:47 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I was reading Jitterbug Perfume last night and it made a very good argument against the ideology of buddhism, and some other religions as well.
Basically, he said in his book, that since many religions recognize misery as being connected with desire, they urge a life towards dissolving desire so as to better end misery/unhappiness. He goes on to say that, while that might work, by killing unhappiness and misery, you have also killed true happiness and elation, and that it was despicable to ever strive towards this emotional neutrality.
Though, on the other hand, he quoted a buddhist (i cant remember which one) which basically said that we already have everything we could desire, everything is ours already and that desire is merely ignorance of this fact and therefor obsolete.

Discuss if you want....


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Tom Robbins on Buddhism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4387937 - 07/09/05 10:26 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I have enjoyed Tom Robbins immensely, I find he is quite buddhist or sufi or something essentially ecstatic or absorbed in life and totality.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Tom Robbins on Buddhism [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4387952 - 07/09/05 10:32 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

more zen-like if anything.... when he writes, he sits down, and works from 9 am to 5pm mon-friday. He says he has spent weeks on one sentence. Nothing is ever editted beyond grammar and punctuation and he writes everything one sentence at a time, refusing to move onto the next sentence until he feels it is perfect.
He also likes to paint himself into corners, usually just starting a book with a very image-packed line and then goes from there, never really knowing where it will lead him. One of the writers who truly lets the book write itself, and he is merely a tool of communication.


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InvisibleToolTroll
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Re: Tom Robbins on Buddhism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4388168 - 07/10/05 12:00 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, that book Jitterbug Perfume, I also felt it had some points against Buddhism. Well, not anti-buddhism, but certainly not "middle-of-the-road". I think Pan was central to the theme, a kind of drunken brazeness combined with sincere innocence. ?? Anyway, I loved that book, and have read several others by him that were great. :thumbup:


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Tom Robbins on Buddhism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4388263 - 07/10/05 12:38 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with him for the most part.

And I loved him in 'The Shawshank Redemption'.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Tom Robbins on Buddhism [Re: zorbman]
    #4388786 - 07/10/05 03:05 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

that is Tim Robbins..... i am hoping that was a joke....


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Tom Robbins on Buddhism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4388947 - 07/10/05 04:15 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I just wanted to see if anyone is paying attention to this thread.
Evidently they are.

Carry on.. :wink:


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Tom Robbins on Buddhism [Re: zorbman]
    #4389153 - 07/10/05 07:02 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

he plays a lot with the polarity between dionysian and appollonian
often beefing up the ecstatic side as it drains away so quickly.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Tom Robbins on Buddhism [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4389181 - 07/10/05 08:09 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The only book I really ever liked of his was Another Roadside Attraction.

I just didn't much care for his writing style. Jitterbug was the only other one I could get through.  I have a strong feeling my partner would agree with your origional post.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Tom Robbins on Buddhism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4389366 - 07/10/05 10:58 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Basically, he said in his book, that since many religions recognize misery as being connected with desire, they urge a life towards dissolving desire so as to better end misery/unhappiness. He goes on to say that, while that might work, by killing unhappiness and misery, you have also killed true happiness and elation, and that it was despicable to ever strive towards this emotional neutrality.




Please demonstrate how dissolving desire results in loss of happiness or elation. :confused:

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OfflineGomp
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Re: Tom Robbins on Buddhism [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4389368 - 07/10/05 11:00 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

""we already have everything we could desire, everything is ours already and that desire is merely ignorance of this fact and therefor obsolete.""

:smile:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Tom Robbins on Buddhism [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4389369 - 07/10/05 11:01 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I'll jump the gun by saying that while having a desire satisfied results with happiness or elation, this does not equate into the experience of happiness or elation requiring desire to exist in order for itself to exist.

:tongue:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Tom Robbins on Buddhism [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4390154 - 07/10/05 06:17 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The basic confusion here, is between impermanent samsaric happiness resulting from the satisfaction of desire, and Nirvanic happiness resulting from liberation from desire itself. While Samsaric happiness is impermanent and therefore fraught with anxieties, disappointments and suffering, due to its inevitable demise, Nirvanic happiness is permanent liberation from desire altogether, freedom from the very cycle of cause and effect itself. Samasric happiness works like this. First we have a thought about something, then we attach labels of attraction or repulsion with our attitude toward the thought, generating further discursive thoughts, which, eventually lead us, like a moth to the flame, into habitual action.

If our desire is not satisfied we experience the pain of dissatisfaction and suffering. However if the desire is satisfied, we receive temporary pleasure from the cessation of craving and desire for a short period of time, before we get distracted again, and perpetuate further desire through habitual tendencies of grasping and attachment. The pleasure diminishes, and we seek further satisfaction through the objects of our senses (the cycle continues).

The problem does not lie within the pleasure, but in furthering our habitual tendencies to seek this pleasure, which in reality is purely mind created. We grasp at our experience, and just like butter, it slips through our fingers, until its all gone, then as our habits of desire increase, we seek for further pleasure and entertainment through our senses, which perpetuates the cycle, the more we grasp, the less pleasure we experience, until slowly, but surely, we find ourselves thoroughly dissatisfied, and agitated.

Nirvanic pleasure, is pleasure in its real sense, when we have cut through this cycle of,craving and desire, not only for the objects of our sense, but even our attachment to the experience of pleasure itself. True, permanent happiness and joy arise out of non-attachment, to all experiences, knowing them all, however long-lasting they seem to be completely and utterly empty, of an permanent self-existence. The same applies to our experiences, of pain, as aversion to experience is just a more subtle form of attachment. The more we try to push it away, the more intense the experience becomes. So with these two things, attachment and aversion, we experience our lives, always accepting and rejecting, and never seeing the true nature of things, as they are. To cut attachment at its root (our self-cherishing attitude) through letting go, more and more, is the only way to free ourselves from these conditions, that bind us tightly to suffering existence.


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Edited by Sinbad (07/11/05 12:41 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Tom Robbins on Buddhism [Re: Sinbad]
    #4390723 - 07/10/05 10:05 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The problem does not lie within the pleasure, but in furthering our habitual tendencies to seek this pleasure, which in reality is purely mind created.
____________________________________________________

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinePedM
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Re: Tom Robbins on Buddhism [Re: Sinbad]
    #4391179 - 07/11/05 01:43 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

How meaningful it is to see the glimmer of a Dharma jewel..


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Tom Robbins on Buddhism [Re: Ped]
    #4391209 - 07/11/05 01:56 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

what Sinbad said.


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