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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Dangerous idea or perfect ideal? [Re: Icelander]
#4384567 - 07/08/05 04:30 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: My hogwash theories work well for me. I have evolved from one who uses war as a primary response to fear to one you uses communication and love to get around.
How did you know I declared war on bedtime without a night-light and the boogyman?
Quote:
Icelander said:Staying alive is not my number one priority. I call that spiritual evolution.
How about "evolving" past your own ego? You know, where war might save the lives of those other than yourself.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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freddurgan
Techgnostic


Registered: 01/11/04
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Re: Dangerous idea or perfect ideal? [Re: Icelander]
#4384568 - 07/08/05 04:30 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm not honestly referring to our brains evolving via natural selection or any of the rules of evolution. It's just a convenient word that conveys (or so I thought) what I meant.
I'm saying that for 4.5 billion years nature decided what was to populate the earth and how to govern it. But now our knowledge has grown SO fast in the last 100 years that the NEXT 100 years could see a paradigm shift in how we as a species succumb to nature.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Dangerous idea or perfect ideal? [Re: looner2]
#4384666 - 07/08/05 05:17 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
looner2 said:
Quote:
Icelander said: My hogwash theories work well for me. I have evolved from one who uses war as a primary response to fear to one you uses communication and love to get around.
How did you know I declared war on bedtime without a night-light and the boogyman?
Quote:
Icelander said:Staying alive is not my number one priority. I call that spiritual evolution.
How about "evolving" past your own ego? You know, where war might save the lives of those other than yourself.
I don't get the nightlight analogy? Enlighten me. 
"Staying alive is not my number one priority. I call that spiritual evolution. " These two sentences really aren't ment to be taken together. The spiritual evolution part of it goes to the whole paragraph.
I would not have a problem going to war to save innocent lives. Like I would have most likely fought on the american indian side in the war for americka.
Fighting is my last resort. Not my first.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
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Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: Dangerous idea or perfect ideal? [Re: freddurgan]
#4384678 - 07/08/05 05:23 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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freddurgan said: Well I'm making these claims partially because of the RATE at which we are accelerating. Look at the difference between 1905 and 2005. It's like CAVEMAN to SPACEMAN. It's really that big of a difference. Cars are old hat. Electricity is old hat. Computers are old hat. DIGITAL anything is old hat. Medicine has taken such a quantum leap that the "best" doctor of 1905 would be so far below the "worst" doctor of today it would be like comparing apples to oranges. We are an ENTIRELY different world from 100 years ago. Within our lifetime I also agree that all diseases will be beaten. We're going to do some amazing things.
our advances in science can be attributed to our communal instinct (which is anti-natural-selection)
In fact most of scientists are weak and dorky. In natural selection they would be the weak link. But thank's to our society, it doesn't matter anymore. They are the leading members of our society.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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freddurgan
Techgnostic


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 3,648
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Dangerous idea or perfect ideal? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
#4384692 - 07/08/05 05:32 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:
freddurgan said: Well I'm making these claims partially because of the RATE at which we are accelerating. Look at the difference between 1905 and 2005. It's like CAVEMAN to SPACEMAN. It's really that big of a difference. Cars are old hat. Electricity is old hat. Computers are old hat. DIGITAL anything is old hat. Medicine has taken such a quantum leap that the "best" doctor of 1905 would be so far below the "worst" doctor of today it would be like comparing apples to oranges. We are an ENTIRELY different world from 100 years ago. Within our lifetime I also agree that all diseases will be beaten. We're going to do some amazing things.
our advances in science can be attributed to our communal instinct (which is anti-natural-selection)
In fact most of scientists are weak and dorky. In natural selection they would be the weak link. But thank's to our society, it doesn't matter anymore. They are the leading members of our society.
Exactly? That's what I'm saying. What doesn't work in nature (weak and dorky) doesn't MATTER because what works for nature doesn't correlate with what works with humans. And therefore we have the ability and obligation to go in a direction that works best for humans and not neccesarily nature. And I still don't mean destroying nature. Just because pandas aren't useful to us doesn't mean we're going to go wipe them all out. We can just mold our evolution in our OWN way, instead of assuming that mother nature knows best.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


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Re: Dangerous idea or perfect ideal? [Re: freddurgan]
#4384709 - 07/08/05 05:39 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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yea, and as for pandas..
since we the only beings on this planet that have awakened from the dream of automation and instincts, and actually built tools that can destroy, we have a responsibility to all beings which are not awake in the same sense as we are.
Its like 5 people sleeping, and the one that wakes up has the responsibility to take care of others (so that they don't get cold, or that they don't get harmed in sleep) simply because he CAN, because he is now awake.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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freddurgan
Techgnostic


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Re: Dangerous idea or perfect ideal? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
#4384976 - 07/08/05 07:05 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yep. I'm glad we're taking care of pandas. I read somewhere that pandas actually NEED to be taken care of because they are maladapted at this point and have a hard time surviving.
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HarryFlashmanVC
That BeastlyFlashy

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 88
Loc: Suffolk, England
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
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Re: Dangerous idea or perfect ideal? [Re: freddurgan]
#4386018 - 07/09/05 03:05 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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With reference to scientists being "weak and dorky" and therefore anti natural selection as they wouldn't survive in the wild is nonsense.
Natural niches are not held purely by brute force. All sorts of genetic traits enable animals to survive. Why do you think humans are as intelligent as they are. Its because NATURAL evolution favoured that throughout our entire history, all the way back to being apes.
To think we are or ever will be totally in control of our evolution is utter arrogance and folly in my humble opinion.
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niteowl
GrandPaw


Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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We are already building "bio-spheres". Artificial environments that are controled by us.
This is the first step into controling our evolution.
Genetic engenering is another step.
Eventually, we will understand nature well enuf, we can live independent of a planet.
Don't you agree, that when we have complete control over nature, that we will then have control over our evolution.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Dangerous idea or perfect ideal? [Re: niteowl]
#4386319 - 07/09/05 08:40 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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You really think we can have complete control over nature?
I don't think we have "control" over anything.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Loc: Pandurn
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Re: Dangerous idea or perfect ideal? [Re: freddurgan]
#4386373 - 07/09/05 09:23 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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The principle of natural selection is still in its effect, in its entirety. How is it not?
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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niteowl
GrandPaw


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Re: Dangerous idea or perfect ideal? [Re: Icelander]
#4386440 - 07/09/05 09:59 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: You really think we can have complete control over nature?
I don't think we have "control" over anything.
What about the people on the ISS (international Space Station)? Their environment is (almost) completly controled by us.
Soon we will have the technology to build a functioning Bio-Sphere. Then the possibilities are endless.
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niteowl
GrandPaw


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Re: Dangerous idea or perfect ideal? [Re: fireworks_god]
#4386444 - 07/09/05 10:01 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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If Natural Selection is, "the strong living and the weak dying thru natural selection". This is like a "blind evolution", it is completly random.
If we have the upper hand in the direction we evolve, Natural Selection, will have to be called something else, maybe Collective Selection.
We will still evolve, just our evolution wont be the "blind evolution" that drove us in the past. It will be more focused, less random.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Dangerous idea or perfect ideal? [Re: niteowl]
#4386464 - 07/09/05 10:12 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said:
Quote:
Icelander said: You really think we can have complete control over nature?
I don't think we have "control" over anything.
What about the people on the ISS (international Space Station)? Their environment is (almost) completly controled by us.
Soon we will have the technology to build a functioning Bio-Sphere. Then the possibilities are endless.
So many things could go wrong up there. Don't you watch si-fi movies? I agree though that the possibilities are endless.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HarryFlashmanVC
That BeastlyFlashy

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 88
Loc: Suffolk, England
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
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Re: Dangerous idea or perfect ideal? [Re: Icelander]
#4386512 - 07/09/05 10:30 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
You really think we can have complete control over nature?
I don't think we have "control" over anything.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Dangerous idea or perfect ideal? [Re: niteowl]
#4386794 - 07/09/05 12:35 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said: If Natural Selection is, "the strong living and the weak dying thru natural selection". This is like a "blind evolution", it is completly random.
I don't understand how you can define "natural selection" by one possible effect through natural selection itself.... You usually don't define something by itself. 
Natural selection isn't "the strong living and the weak dying". Natural selection is inevitable change as a result of all interactions within a system, between all of that system's variables. It is the natural, inevitable flow of a river through its environment. It leads itself as a result of the change in everything that it pertains to.
Natural selection is evidenced when I hit backspace a few times. It is evidenced when the wind currents flow with wind. etc. etc., ad infinitum.
Your limited natural selection merely as it has applied to the general evolution of our species in the past is merely evidence of natural selection occuring. Natural selection is the grand archetect of existance. 

 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Dangerous idea or perfect ideal? [Re: niteowl]
#4386802 - 07/09/05 12:37 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said: What about the people on the ISS (international Space Station)? Their environment is (almost) completly controled by us.
It is not controlled by us, in any way, shape, or form. We are not mentally responsible for the interactions that create the environment. We ourselves iniate action that influences our environment.
Big difference, ponder the ramifications of this distinction. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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