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OfflineOnetwothree
This is MajorTom
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Hit hard by trich... =(
    #4375894 - 07/06/05 03:42 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Well, I let my casing mix cool overnight and opened up my tubs to find all three of them got hit with trich.





----

I think what did me in was the amount of myc. piss buildup, as you can see, there was a lot throughout the substrate.  I did open it up often to look at how the progress was doing, as a curious grower I couldn't help myself... This won't be an issue next time.

A few things I learned from this process.

- Don't forget to put a plastic bag inside of the tub, to keep condensation from saturating the outer edge of the substrate.
- DO NOT PEEK!!
- Use your spawn jars as soon as possible, I let them incubate 3 weeks after 100% colonization which I think played a role on the amount of waste product produced.

Throughout the whole 2 weeks of colonization I saw no traces of contamination, in fact growth was very healthy and rhizomorphic... however when I looked in today, it was all wilted looking, like it was dying.  Do you think the contamination occured at the initiation of the spawn run, or was it introduced later on by my opening of the tubs?  I don't see how it could have been growing this whole time, because the myc seemed to be thriving quite well.

Anyways, live and learn, and I have my next batch of LC going.  I do have a few questions however... how should I go about cleaning the tubs?  Just dump them out and wash them in the bath tub?  Or would that possibly harbor more contams in my drainage or something?  Wouldn't want that!  Also, this time around I think I am going to order some stuff from TennStud, but am not sure as to how much I will need.  I'd like to do enough for 8 tubs, which are 75 quarts each, about 3.75sq ft.  I'd like to make my substrate 4 inches deep.  Volumewise I could figure it out but I don't know how much h/poo weighs, so yeah... Just a general estimate would be very helpful :-)

And it isn't a COMPLETE loss yet.  Thankfully with my last jars of spawn I made two casings which are incubating right now and looking healthy so far (hope things don't go south... I'm going to just LEAVE EM ALONE for a week).

I learned a lot from this whole thing, and hopefully my next grow will go a little better.  Sanitary practices will be much more respected this time around as well.

Thanks for all the help along the way!  And until next time... Fairwell :smile:


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OfflinemyCo_psyCo
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: Onetwothree]
    #4375980 - 07/06/05 04:10 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

i waz a peeker too trich got my cakes in like 2 days


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Offlinecoda
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: myCo_psyCo]
    #4377035 - 07/06/05 08:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

IMO Buy a tub with at least a clear top, that way you can watch your babies grow without disturbing the enviornment.  Im having a hard time keeping myself from looking at my jars colonizing.  This is my first grow so i figured it would be good to watch the whole process(after waiting 4 years to start makes it more difficult to leave them alone too :wink: ).  Even if it means a poor fruiting/pinset/whatever, i want to learn.  Ill be doing the same when i birth my cakes, but im making sure that i can see what im growing without having to open lids etc to check them out.  Sorry to hear about your loss man, GL next time!


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To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG



Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.


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OfflineOnetwothree
This is MajorTom
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: coda]
    #4377052 - 07/06/05 08:19 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah... I thought the clear tub would be adequate to see through there... but blah it built up with condensation too quickly. Maybe a plexiglass lid would be more clear... but that seems like an aweful lot of work hehe... We'll see. I get my paid in another week, gonna try and brainstorm.

Just sucks these got so far then contam'd :-( I don't have any backup spawn or anything, gotta start from scratch.


--------------------
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Offlinecoda
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: Onetwothree]
    #4377058 - 07/06/05 08:21 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

a lot of teks suggest using plastic wrap too, you could look into that as an alternative to plexiglass if you're looking to save time/money.

Here's a question, if you used anti fog stuff (like the wipes used for a paintball mask) to keep off condensation, would it hurt your grow in any way?


--------------------
To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG



Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.


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Offlineoysterguy63
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: coda]
    #4377192 - 07/06/05 08:53 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I peeked when I spawned my alien sub to poo, not once but twice....no issues. Ripped through that poo in like 4 days flat....cased with verm/peat/tad bit of lime which the myc came though in 18 hours...I now patiently await the fruit of my labor and all of your good advice.


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Oysters...yuummmmm


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Offlinestarseed1066
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: oysterguy63]
    #4377314 - 07/06/05 09:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

i open up my poo when its colonizing all the time. i had one die because of fermentation from not leeching it enough.

am i the only one that doesnt get trich? even whem i'm trying to? i left one tub partway open on the floor by my comp desk and it took a week before it got the green meanie lol....


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Under his instruction, I taped drumsticks to his head and turned him into a sort of mummy, or perhaps a caterpiller in a cocoon. He remains this way for about three hours, making bizarre noises, pretending to be a new species that must learn to walk and talk and eat, etc. And he communicates with other life forms by way of the antennae on his head. Eventually we jam a tube from a waterbong into it's mouth and figure he's learned all he needs to know.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: starseed1066]
    #4377347 - 07/06/05 09:34 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

starseed1066 said:
am i the only one that doesnt get trich? even whem i'm trying to?





I can send you a culture of everything I've had... my trich is in the top 5 but my
cobweb super strain can kick everyones ass.


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Offlinestarseed1066
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #4377367 - 07/06/05 09:42 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

hahahaa...nice, i might want a sample of that :rotfl:

the only cobweb i've had i caught when it was maybe a couple dime sized patches, so i rubbed my face (for the oil- it destroys surface tension and inhibits water retention) and poked the spots, poof, no more cobweb


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Under his instruction, I taped drumsticks to his head and turned him into a sort of mummy, or perhaps a caterpiller in a cocoon. He remains this way for about three hours, making bizarre noises, pretending to be a new species that must learn to walk and talk and eat, etc. And he communicates with other life forms by way of the antennae on his head. Eventually we jam a tube from a waterbong into it's mouth and figure he's learned all he needs to know.


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: Onetwothree]
    #4377444 - 07/06/05 10:09 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Substrate temperatures above the 85F range and anaerobic conditions often result in readily available carbohydrates and a lower pH in a substrate, which generally favors the growth of Trichoderma (green mold).

Do those tubs have a means for some degree of gas exchange?


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: agar]
    #4378400 - 07/07/05 02:53 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

If peeking caused trich, I would never have a successful grow in my life. Sorry, but I am a peeking addict. I have tried to quit, but I peek almost every day, sometimes several times a day, at every stage in my mushroom growth, including spawn run and casing run. I once tried to get a red light to help me peek without introducing light to the casing, but I can't see well with a red light. Now I just peek with a white light and feel bad about it.

Peeking isn't your problem, but you should provide yourself a way to peek without opening the container to the outside. Opening the container is a sure way to cause trouble. I would guess, though, your trouble went beyond peeking or opening the container even. It looks like a problem with gas exchange or pH or something. There was SOMETHING else wrong besides just peeking. You need to review your setup in general.

Also, no spawn run should take two full weeks. If yours is taking that long, something is wrong. You need to use more spawn (25% is good), keep the container cool, and provide some form of gas exchange.

I have recently found that keeping the whole thing cool is pretty important to avoid all sorts of trouble, including cobweb, green mold, and fermentation. Spawn runs generate some real heat, and you need to keep it under control at the core. For that matter, put a core temperature probe in the middle next time to keep an eye on temperature. They cost about $15 at Walmart but are worth every penny.


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OfflineOnetwothree
This is MajorTom
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4378820 - 07/07/05 06:20 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I think that gas exchange must have been my problem then. Where I live the ambient temperature is only 70F and that's what the tubs where sittin at, and is why I thought they took so long to incubate. I was under the impression that you wanted CO2 buildup during the spawn run, so I didn't provide any circulation to the tubs during this time. I do think that pH played a major role however due to the waste buildup, which was noticable after a week. These two factors are probably what caused my problem. My spawn ratio was very weak too, I only used about 10% for each tub, which was probably another factor in the slow growth.

Here is a tub after one and a half weeks:


Things seem to look healthy, but I don't think this trich just popped up overnight, it must have been lurking for a while as there is a considerable amount of growth, it just popped up on the surface yesterday. Next time around, I am going to buy some tools to put holes in the sides of the tubs to provide gas exchange after one week of spawn run... or do you think I should just allow gas exchange during the whole thing?

Thanks for the input, hopefully the next run will get better results.


--------------------
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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: Onetwothree]
    #4379187 - 07/07/05 11:18 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

10% is plenty of spawn for a professional grow using perfect genetics, temperatures, compost, etc. But for the rest of us, 20% or more might be a better bet.

You need some gas exchange during the spawn run and the casing run too but not much since the build up of CO2 is desirable to an extent. You can provide holes either from the beginning or after a week. In any case, do provide some but don't go crazy and trigger the surface into fruiting mode. If you do, you'll have a heck of a time getting the casing run to finish, and an uncolonized casing is yet another invite for contamination.

Trich is not a common contaminant on poo. It's more a problem with uncolonized grain and especially with peat. If one mashes grains by accident when they taking them out to spawn, then you open yourself up for all sorts of trouble. Keep in mind that while the outside of the grain may be totally colonized, the core often is not. Make sure your spawn is well colonized before use and be gentle with it so as not to expose the middle of the grains. I like to break mine up in the spawn bag and let it recover overnight before I use it, but with jars that might not be possible.


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OfflineOnetwothree
This is MajorTom
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4380038 - 07/07/05 04:02 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I wasn't using h/poo by any means. My substrate was 45/45/10 Worm castings / Vermiculite / Straw. I do think that gas exchange was the main problem. The grains were definately colonized, and care was taken not to expose too many grain cores... I will take your advice on the amount of spawn though, next time I will use a 25% ratio., and I am planning on ordering some products from TennStud. I just put a casing on one of my smaller trays for shits and giggles, which had very rhizomorphic growth, though wasn't completely colonized. Used Hydrated Lime adjusted peat with verm, and buffered with Limestone Flour. Moisture level was good at the time of PC'ing, but 36 hours have passed since then.

I am curious to know how much I need to mist them...


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: Onetwothree]
    #4380165 - 07/07/05 04:42 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

No, gas exchange wasnt the MAIN problem (although maybe one)..

>45/45/10 Worm castings / Vermiculite / Straw.

THATS you main problem. Thats a substrate ver prone to contamination..


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"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineOnetwothree
This is MajorTom
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4380335 - 07/07/05 05:11 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Next time around I plan on using some h/poo from TennStud mixed with Vermiculite... would this be a better choice do you think, and cut out the straw all together? Do you think it's the straw that did me in?


--------------------
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Invisibleagar
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: Onetwothree]
    #4380466 - 07/07/05 05:47 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I think the combo did you in.

I am not a fan of worm castings, as the consistency is much like mud. Nor am I a fan of "fresh" straw. As nature intended it to be fairly water resistant. Note - it has a bright waxy coating protecting it.

The combination of the two - doesn't balance out - either. One is to much like mud, the other is not biodegraded enough to absorb water well.

Well weathered h/poo is effectively biodegraded, has a beneficial microbial biomass, a high fiber (lignocellulose) & nitrogen content. A well tailored compost is the best possible substrate. Next down the rung - is well weathered h/poo.

Read this post: HERE:


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OfflineOnetwothree
This is MajorTom
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: agar]
    #4380545 - 07/07/05 06:10 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks agar :smile: That helped out a lot... next run around I think will go a lot better... It's lame I gotta start from scratch again but that's my own doing.  I need to clean this place up *looks around* and get everything underway.


--------------------
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Offlinesludge
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #4380553 - 07/07/05 06:12 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

starseed1066 said:
am i the only one that doesnt get trich? even whem i'm trying to?





I can send you a culture of everything I've had... my trich is in the top 5 but my
cobweb super strain can kick everyones ass.


man do i have problems with cobweb i have it on two of my casings right now which im treating with dabs of HP,i had one casing go bad with the green shit and the other had a pin size spot in the middle i grabed it out because the sub is about 98% done so we will see what happens i hope it colinizes where it was and i will case it!!!!!a ? pris can i still get fruits off a casing that has cobweb?the mycel is growing good thru the casing which is in the fruiting chamber!!!!with others fruiting is this safe?


--------------------
Down in a hole and I don't know if I can be saved
See my heart I decorate it like a grave
You don't understand who they
Thought I was supposed to be
Look at me now a man
Who won't let himself be


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Offlinesludge
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Re: Hit hard by trich... =( [Re: sludge]
    #4380593 - 07/07/05 06:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

and i know why i got pin size green mold it was caused my wbs was not fully colinized so thats what i picked off my poo just two spots of wbs!!! im hoping there is not a bunch of that in the center it was unpasturized poo that is almost done in 5 days ya i said it 5 days unpasturized and no bugs or anything growing from it but i let it hydrate in 140 degree tap water for 20 to 30 mins!!!!


--------------------
Down in a hole and I don't know if I can be saved
See my heart I decorate it like a grave
You don't understand who they
Thought I was supposed to be
Look at me now a man
Who won't let himself be


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