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Offlineaaa
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Registered: 06/09/05
Posts: 15
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
speeding up wood lovers with h2o2?
    #4375567 - 07/06/05 01:53 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

i think brown rot fungi use mainly h2o2 instead of enzymes to make the polysaccharides avaible.

could we speed up psilocybe wood lovers by treating the wood substrate with h2o2?


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Offlinedumbsnake34
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Registered: 12/14/04
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Re: speeding up wood lovers with h2o2? [Re: aaa]
    #4456034 - 07/26/05 04:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Make sure to use a liquid culture because spores are killed by peroxide.


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mmmm, daydreaming


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OfflinePinx
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Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 56
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: speeding up wood lovers with h2o2? [Re: dumbsnake34]
    #4470232 - 07/29/05 06:39 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

if u want to provide them(fungi) with oligo- or monosaccharides u could just ad a little bit of sugar(pure gluccose would be ideal) to your substrate...

my 2c€nts


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Invisible@cro
new name
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Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 1,224
Loc: The PNW
Re: speeding up wood lovers with h2o2? [Re: aaa]
    #4470796 - 07/29/05 08:32 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

They use peroxidative enzymes.
Many people do use peroxide to break down woody substrates, Rush Wayne's manual is all about this, so sure it would work but there are some ideas that this may not be as advantageous as you're thinking

From another site, I think he doesn't post here for a reason, so I'll leave it without the source:
Quote:

What is special on dung, is partially unprocessed lignin in the cell walls of the many grasses and and feeds ruminent animals eat. The fungi use extracellular digestion to break the lignin down into simpler sugar molecules and frees things such cellulose and hemicellulose.

In addition, dung is rich in other nutrients and is good at retaining moisture.

I have always assumed that the more oxidases a hallucinogenic mushroom excretes, the more psilocin/-cybin it contains. This is one of the reasons why it seems wood-degrading mushrooms are more potent."

"Basically they use extracellular digestion by excreting oxidative enzymes to degrade lignin. These oxidative enzymes are things like peroxidases and laccase.

Lignin holds together things like cellulose and hemicellulose. The fungus oxidizes the lignin to Carbon dioxide to get at the cellulose which it uses as a carbon source.

Cellulose is a complex sugar which is degraded by heat and things like alpha-amylase (in seeds and in your mouth).

It is my belief that the reason why burst seeds are not good for growing mushrooms is because the complex sugars are degraded and thereby mess up the whole process of digestion for the fungus. I could probably talk for a long time on this subject and have before. I have done research as to how I might remove some of the lignin in wood to make a suitable wood substrate for cubensis culture, as I believe wood-containing substrates are much more potent. Also, a reason partially germinated seeds aren't good is because there is the enzyme alpha-amylase, that is activated at germination to break down the starches inside for energy to be transferred to the seedling. Again, degraded sugars."

"By the way, lignin is found in virtually all animal feeds. Another thing I think about is the fact that Panaeolus mushrooms need dung to fruit. Well if you have ever observed the wispy nature of Pan mycelium, you would characterize it as weak to contams, yet still able to colonize fast. It's my belief that the larger carbon source needed to fruit Panaeolus can only be found in partially digested foodstuffs of herbivores that have already had some of the lignin removed."

"The dense nature of wood chips as compared to the thin wall of, say, a blade of grass is why the mushroom must excrete more powerful oxidases (various ones that begin the breakdown of the lignin cell structure). These powerful oxidases which are in greater number than non-wood degrading fungi may in fact be the reason there are more of other chemicals (read: psilocin/-cybin) that are produced during the process.

Another possibility is the stress factor. The fact that there needs to be more oxidases in greater concentration may mean that over time this oxidative stress may in fact influence the formation of psilocin/-cybin. "






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OfflinePinx
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Registered: 06/20/05
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Re: speeding up wood lovers with h2o2? [Re: @cro]
    #4472926 - 07/30/05 06:02 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

This Guy seems to be well informed, i personally think that it depends prettey much more on the nitrogen content of the substrate.
Is there a way to contact him?


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OfflinePinx
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Registered: 06/20/05
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Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: speeding up wood lovers with h2o2? [Re: @cro]
    #4472927 - 07/30/05 06:11 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I disagree but it would be nice to talk to this guy.


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