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Offlinewhite
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cure for cancer
    #4366092 - 07/03/05 12:25 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)



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OfflineDF2K
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Re: cure for cancer [Re: white]
    #4367467 - 07/03/05 10:52 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

cool


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Invisiblebadchad
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 12,105
Re: cure for cancer [Re: DF2K]
    #4369914 - 07/04/05 06:43 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Who'd have thought? After all the years we come to learn that the cure for cancer has been suppressed by a joint conspiracy between money-hungry pharmaceutical companies and the government.

Now, all you have to do is spend $17-$90 on these books to figure out how to be cancer free.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: cure for cancer [Re: white]
    #4370171 - 07/04/05 08:39 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Search google for "cancer cure". Check the google ads along the side, you'll get about a dozen equally bold claims from equally uneducated and money hungry people.

As yes, nothing like exploiting the hopes of the terminally ill.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: cure for cancer [Re: Phluck]
    #4370282 - 07/04/05 10:10 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

True, there is always no shortage of people like that, but there are also plants and herbs readily available that, while not guaranteeing a cure, are probably at least as effective as conventional treatment.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: cure for cancer [Re: Jellric]
    #4370329 - 07/04/05 10:34 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Why can't they collect any data on these plants and herbs then? You'd think that if they were really that effective, someone would do a study to collect some data on them so that they can back the information up with evidence, and allow a wider selection of people to use these safe remedies.

What evidence, other than the claims of those selling books or the herbs themselves, do we have to justify the idea that these herbs are so effective?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
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Re: cure for cancer [Re: Phluck]
    #4370368 - 07/04/05 10:55 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

It's pretty simple really. If the pharmaceutical companies can't put a patent on something they aren't interested in it. So there is almost no interest in studying plants and herbs. No patent, no check. If there was something available that would be more effective than their draconian slash, burn, and poison approach to cancer treatment does anyone seriously believe we'd learn about it from them? Of course not. Cancer treatment is a multi billion dollar industry. No patient, no green paper rectangles. All we have for now is anecdotes, and that's probably all we'll ever have.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


Edited by Jellric (07/04/05 11:02 PM)


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: cure for cancer [Re: Jellric]
    #4371425 - 07/05/05 07:54 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jellric said:
It's pretty simple really. If the pharmaceutical companies can't put a patent on something they aren't interested in it. So there is almost no interest in studying plants and herbs. No patent, no check.




This is a fairly accurate statement and is the reason people are able to sell these books. Pharmaceutical companies are in the business of making money.

However, a lot of people forgot about all the researchers in academia. For the most part, college professors are little influenced by the pharm. corporations (if at all). This group of scientists represent a large percentage of researchers in the cancer field. While profits may hold the large corporations back from development of natural herbal cancer remedies; college professors are largely free from this restriction. Thus, the incentive to discover the cure for cancer and win a noble prize is motivation enough for these herbs to be looked at. If there was a magic cure all remedy it would have been researched and found by now.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: cure for cancer [Re: badchad]
    #4373160 - 07/05/05 08:16 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with you that there is no "magic bullet" for cancer, but there do seem to be several plants and herbs out there that are at least as effective than conventional medicine's rather barbaric methods which have proven to be a dismal failure overall in spite of the games they play with statistics.

College professors may not be directly influenced by the pharmaceutical industry, but you can bet your bottom dollar that Big Pharma has a huge say in who gets that grant money through their influence on government. Don't forget that they are one of the largest lobbying groups in Washington, D.C. and, along with the AMA, donate tons of money to politicians. They know where their bread is buttered and it lies in creating new drugs they can patent and make money on. It's all about the money. A cure would cost them billions upon billions of dollars and they know that. They could give a damn about a cure. Their focus is on synthetic drugs that merely prolong a patient's life long enough to drain their bank accounts.

Understand that I'm talking about those in power over the direction that medicine takes. Your local doctor is probably a good guy who wants you to be well, but he's at the mercy of the medical establishment and would lose his license to practice medicine if he starts recommending herbs for his patients.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Offlineluckytriple6
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Re: cure for cancer [Re: Jellric]
    #4375239 - 07/06/05 11:58 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.naturalcures.com/
I saw this guy on an infomercial selling another book that claims to have many natural cures. One of these days I might just stop in a book store to read it....


--------------------
Let me out of this place
I'm outta place
I'm in outer space
I've just vanished without a trace
I'm going to a pretty place now where the flowers grow
I'll be back in an hour or so

[quote]Abuse said:
the dea can go fuck themselves! with the internet, the impossible is possible![/quote]


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: cure for cancer [Re: luckytriple6]
    #4375828 - 07/06/05 03:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

That's funny, I was on the phone with a friend who mentioned that infomercial and then two minutes later I see your post.

Here is a video that demonstrates the strong arm tactics used by the medical establishment to suppress any natural cures and persecute anyone who dares to cut into their profits. I highly recommend you download and view the free movie, "Hoxsey: How Healing Becomes a Crime ". It is a fascinating look at a man and his natural cancer therapy that was suppressed in the 1950's by the nascent AMA and the sinister head of that organization, Morris Fishbein (think Harry Anslinger former chief of the Federal Narcotics Bureau who was largely responsible for demonizing marijuana).

Hoxsey won a libel suit against Fishbein at one point. He had him and the AMA on the ropes and he had the people's support, but the AMA had too much political power. The course of medicine was forever changed during this period which is now largely forgotten. The winners write the history books. Same as it ever was..

There is a growing movement away from conventional medicine's approach to treating diseases and towards natural holistic medicine. The knowledge of this will come, not from the top-down, but from the bottom-up. This will be a grass roots movement. It will probably take a generation or more to overcome the powerful entrenched interests that have a stranglehold on medicine today.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 12,105
Re: cure for cancer [Re: Jellric]
    #4376933 - 07/06/05 07:55 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I've never submitted a research grant for cancer specifically, but in my experience grant review boards are made up of numerous types of scientists from across many different spectrums. This includes a large majority of reviewers in academia. Its the panel that decides who gets grant funding. I've never personally sat in on a grant review board but the discussion is objective. The better the hypothesis, the better chance a grant has of being funded.

In addition once a grant is awarded there is little scrutiny of how the money is spent. A scientist could easily carry out a simple experiment to test a good hypothesis. If the results were favorable nothing would stop them from being published.

Academic researchers top out at about a 6 figure salary. They do it for the genuine interest in advancing society. A noble prize and the million dollar bonus would be incentive enough for these "magic bullets" to be found.

And also keep in mind that the "stranglehold" big pharma has on the U.S government probably doesn't extend to foreign countries where there is ample cancer research going on. I can't comment further as I'm not sure how involved government is in research in foreign countries but I would doubt it's all encompassing around the world.

Also consider how much the U.S. spends on cancer. Including research grants, but also patient care and outreach programs. Curing cancer would eliminate these expenses.

While there likely is no "magic bullet" for cancer the chance of some magical herb eliminating it is quite small. THe problem with all the magic herbal remedies is this: All the evidence is anecdotal. Current cancer research is based on sound theories. WHile we don't know exactly how cancer works, there are good theories backed up by evidence. We then take the evidence try and work out a mechanism for cancer,;and use the mechanism to develop a cure. While herbs and potions may deserve thorough research and acknowledgement the resources aren't there and simply saying: "eat a plant then cure cancer" is not a good hypothesis.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: cure for cancer [Re: badchad]
    #4377690 - 07/06/05 11:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Again, I don't believe in a magic bullet for cancer, natural or otherwise. And there are some studies being done on natural substances. But the vast majority of money goes into funding research into synthetic substances that rake in the cash- that holds true whether its in the U.S. or somewhere else.

THe problem with all the magic herbal remedies..

"Magic"? There is nothing magic about something natural that helps bring health to human beings. The word "magic" seems akin to the term "witch doctor" which is used to denigrate shamans, most of whom had knowledge of healing plants and herbs we are only just now beginning to understand.

Don't forget that many drugs being pushed by pharms today are based upon plants. Guess who preserved knowledge of those plants down through the ages long before the first scientist ever got his first test tube?

Also consider how much the U.S. spends on cancer. Including research grants, but also patient care and outreach programs. Curing cancer would eliminate these expenses.

You've got to be kidding me. Since when did the government start caring about expenses? Think about the enormous loss of fund raising for politicians if the American Cancer Society went bye-bye. The kind of fear generated by cancer generates billions of dollars and that money gets spread around. This creates much activity to be sure. There are fancy dinners to attend, "fact-finding" tours to fly to, palms to be greased, and grant money to be handed out. There is an entire culture that feeds off this disease. Cancer upon cancer. It's pretty grotesque when you think about it.

THe problem with all the magic herbal remedies is this: All the evidence is anecdotal.

That's just my point! All we have for the time being is anecdotes thanks to the FDA and AMA. There is very little money going into researching anything that cannot be patented so there is very little interest in scientific studies of this nature. Personally, if I had cancer I would not seek conventional treatment (chemo, radiation, surgery). Chemo, for instance, works in only about 3-4% of cancer patients. Yet it is the treatment of choice for late stage cancer patients! They won't inform you of this because they will lose a patient (read "customer") if you walk out that door. It's not good business to lose a patient or even make him aware of any alternative even though your own magic potion has a dismal record of failure.

Current cancer research is based on sound theories.

Current cancer research is based upon money and politics.


Edited by Jellric (07/07/05 04:23 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: cure for cancer [Re: Jellric]
    #4384079 - 07/08/05 03:23 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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