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old hand ![]() Registered: 02/14/04 Posts: 4,102 Last seen: 14 years, 11 days |
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So, there are rumors that Karl Rove outed Joseph Wilson's wife, an undercover CIA agent, and then lied about it under oath.
You can read a little about it here: www.drudgereport.com What do you think about this?
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Daisy Chain Eate Registered: 12/04/03 Posts: 2,400 Loc: New York |
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Rove should be banned from Burger King.
Kerry should have his ascots confiscated. justice served -------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'? Edited by Gijith (07/12/05 06:37 AM)
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Religion=Rape Registered: 11/18/01 Posts: 1,280 Loc: Amerika |
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Bush's brain is going to be running the world from behind bars.
-------------------- ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey. There is such emotion in the distortion.
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Live to party,work to affordit. Registered: 10/03/04 Posts: 8,978 Loc: South Texas Last seen: 13 years, 1 month |
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The left keeps telling us the leaker was Karl Rove.
HA! If it was, these reporters would have sung like canaries. Judge Orders Jail for N.Y. Times Reporter http://www.freerepublic.com/^http://news...zkxBHNlYwN0bQ-- By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer 1 minute ago WASHINGTON - A federal judge on Wednesday jailed New York Times reporter Judith Miller for refusing to divulge her source to a grand jury investigating who in the Bush administration leaked an undercover CIA operative's name. ADVERTISEMENT "There is still a realistic possibility that confinement might cause her to testify," U.S. District Judge Thomas Hogan said of the showdown in a case that has seen both President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney interviewed by investigators. Miller stood up, hugged her lawyer and was escorted from the courtroom. Earlier, Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper, in an about-face, told Hogan that he would cooperate with a federal prosecutor's investigation into the leak of the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame. He said he would do so now because his source gave him specific authority to do so. "Last night I hugged my son goodbye and told him it might be a long time before I see him again," Cooper said as he took the podium to address the court. "I went to bed ready to accept the sanctions" for not testifying, Cooper said. But he told the judge that not long before his early afternoon appearance, he had received "in somewhat dramatic fashion" a direct personal communication from his source freeing him from his commitment to keep the source's identity secret. As for Miller, unless she decides to talk, she will be held until the grand jury ends its work in October. The judge speculated that Miller's confinement might cause her source to give her a more specific waiver of confidentiality, as did Cooper's. Cooper, talking to reporters afterward, called it "a sad time." "My heart goes out to Judy. I told her as she left the court to stay strong," Cooper added. "I think this clearly points out the need for some kind of a national shield law. There is no federal shield law and that is why we find ourselves here today." "Judy Miller made a commitment to her source and she's standing by it," New York Times executive editor Bill Keller told reporters. Floyd Abrams, a prominent First Amendment lawyer who represented Miller, told reporters: "Judy is an honorable woman, adhering to the highest tradition of her profession and the highest tradition of humanity." "Judy Miller has not been accused of a crime or convicted of a crime," Abrams said. "She has been held in civil contempt of court." The prosecutor, U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald had responded in court to Miller's refusal to name her source by saying "we can't have 50,000 journalists" each making their own decision about whether to reveal sources. "We cannot tolerate that," he said. "We are trying to get to the bottom of whether a crime was committed and by whom." Another Miller attorney, Robert Bennett, said earlier that prosecutors traditionally have shown great respect for journalists and "have had the good judgment not to push these cases very often." Hogan held the reporters in civil contempt of court in October, rejecting their argument that the First Amendment shielded them from revealing their sources. Last month the Supreme Court refused to intervene. In court documents filed Tuesday, Fitzgerald urged Hogan to take the unusual step of jailing the reporters, saying that may be the only way to get them to talk. "Journalists are not entitled to promise complete confidentiality ? no one in America is," Fitzgerald wrote. Fitzgerald had disclosed Tuesday that a source of Cooper and Miller had waived confidentiality, giving the reporters permission to reveal where they got their information. The prosecutor did not identify the source, nor did he specify whether the source for each reporter was the same person. Cooper said he had been told earlier that his source had signed a general waiver of confidentiality but that he did not trust such waivers because he thought they had been gained from executive branch employees under duress. He told the court that he needed not a general waiver but a specific waiver from his source, which he did not get until Wednesday. "I received express personal consent" from the source, Cooper told the judge. Hogan and Fitzgerald accepted Cooper's offer. "That would purge you of contempt," Hogan said. Prior to the hearing, Miller argued that it is imperative for reporters to honor their commitments to provide cover to sources who will only reveal important information if they are assured anonymity. Forcing reporters to renege on the pledge undercuts their ability to do their job, she said. Last week, Time Inc., last week provided Fitzgerald with records, notes and e-mail traffic involving Cooper, who had argued that it was therefore no longer necessary for him to testify. Time also had been found in contempt and officials there said after losing appeals it had no choice but to turn over the information. The case is seen as a key test of press freedom and many media groups have lined up behind the reporters. Thirty-one states and the District of Columbia have shield laws protecting reporters from having to identify their confidential sources. Fitzgerald is investigating who in the administration leaked Plame's identity. Her name was disclosed in a column by Robert Novak days after her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, impugned part of President Bush's justification for invading Iraq. Wilson was sent to Africa by the Bush administration to investigate an intelligence claim that Saddam Hussein may have purchased yellowcake uranium from Niger in the late 1990s for use in nuclear weapons. Wilson said he could not verify the claim and criticized the administration for manipulating the intelligence to "exaggerate the Iraqi threat." Novak, whose column cited as sources two unidentified senior Bush administration officials, has refused to say whether he has testified before the grand jury or been subpoenaed. Novak has said he "will reveal all" after the matter is resolved and that it is wrong for the government to jail journalists. Disclosure of an undercover intelligence officer's identity can be a federal crime if prosecutors can show the leak was intentional and the person who released that information knew of the officer's secret status. Cooper spoke to White House deputy chief of staff Karl Rove after Wilson's public criticism of Bush and before Novak's column ran, according to Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, who denies that Rove leaked Plame's identity to anyone. Cooper's story mentioning Plame's name appeared after Novak's column. Miller did some reporting, but never wrote a story. Among the witnesses Fitzgerald's investigators have questioned besides Bush and Cheney are Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis Libby; and former White House counsel Alberto Gonzales, who is now the attorney general. Fitzgerald has said that his investigation is complete except for testimony from Cooper and Miller. -------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Daisy Chain Eate Registered: 12/04/03 Posts: 2,400 Loc: New York |
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-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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Religion=Rape Registered: 11/18/01 Posts: 1,280 Loc: Amerika |
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Rove and Bush are going to jail.
-------------------- ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey. There is such emotion in the distortion.
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Prince of Bugs ![]() Registered: 10/08/02 Posts: 44,175 Last seen: 6 months, 28 days |
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No they're not.
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horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 11 months |
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Quote: Why?
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'Head Registered: 03/20/05 Posts: 1,504 Last seen: 18 years, 5 months |
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Didn't you hear him? He straight stonewalled, even though he was more than willing to say Rove had nothing to do with it 9 and again 6 months ago.. Well into the "investigation"
I get the feeling you don't mind being lied to by elected reps, Zappa... -------------------- My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason
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the cool fool Registered: 11/17/02 Posts: 27,397 Loc: USA |
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now if rove did leak this name after all, would u agreee needs to be prosecuted for perjury and treason?? or will your partisan politics even allow you to protect criminals
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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There is no indication Rove leaked a name. All he did was tell the reporter that Joseph Wilson's claims were bullshit -- which they were.
Phred
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horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 11 months |
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Yeah, I heard it all and I still don't know what the screaming is about. Tell me precisely what lieing you think he is committing. And then tell me what law, precisely, that you think Rove violated and how. Thank you.
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Daisy Chain Eate Registered: 12/04/03 Posts: 2,400 Loc: New York |
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I've rarely seen a press secretary that I didn't hate. They're basically just spineless publicists who have a degree.
I really don't care about this whole issue that much. I mean it's an interesting story, but no matter what happens, Rove isn't going to be found guilty of anything. And, as far as I'm concerned, he can keep his job. If it turns out he did, in fact, leak sensitive information, maybe he should have his clearance revoked. Whatever. What I care about is the White House's mouthpiece to the public (Imagine an insane society where a President actually took 2 hours a week to answer some questions himself) doing such a shitty job of dodging questions. There were many questions asked on Monday that can't possibly have any relevance to the 'ongoing criminal investigation'::: - Does the President stand by his pledge to fire anyone involved in the leak of a name of a CIA operative? - I just want to know, is that still his position? - Wait, wait -- so you're now saying that after you cleared Rove and the others from that podium, then the prosecutors asked you not to speak anymore, and since then, you haven't? - Well, then the President commented on it nine months later. So was he not following the White House plan? - After the investigation is completed, will you then be consistent with your word and the President's word that anybody who was involved would be let go? - Does the President continue to have confidence in Mr. Rove? - And understanding that Karl Rove was the architect of the President's win for the second term in the Oval Office, how important is Karl Rove to this administration currently? - Who is Karl Rove as it relates to this administration? - Now, are you concerned that in not setting the record straight today that this could undermine the credibility of the other things you say from the podium? - Was the request made of you, or of whom in the White House? Not one of these questions could have an answer that would be at all relevant Fitzgerald's investigation. Yet for every single one of them, McClellan either stated that someone in the investigation had directed the White House not to speak, or just referred to this direction. And this is less than a third of the questions asked on the subject during Monday's briefing. Even if they were directed not to speak (I'll be interested to see whether the White House can come up with a coherent time frame for when they were silenced), McClellan could have bothered to distinguish between what fit under this direction and what didn't. This is what bothers me. I don't think the White House has to tell us anything. I wouldn't be nearly as annoyed/amused if McClellan had just stood up there and said 'No Comment' 33 times. Fine. That's just rational defense. But don't treat intelligent people as if they are 3 year olds dumb enough to believe that an investigator instructed them not to disclose how Rove 'relates to this administration.' My habitual reading of the White House press briefings has just become a form of masochism. Every answer is just so prepackaged and insulting. I have to think that if we had a third party - libertarians, greens, fascists, communists, whoever - in office, we would sometimes get an answer that wasn't 100% predictable. I've been reading these things for about 3 years now. I've NEVER thought to myself 'wow, that was an interesting, thought provoking and important answer, fitting of the most powerful man in the free world.' It's just so pointless. -------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 11 months |
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Just who are the intelligent people you are referring to? The gang of reporters who keep asking the same question even though they have been told that he's not going to answer them? The idiot Helen Thomas? Rove didn't do anything wrong and Mclellan isn't going to coment on an ongoing investigation. That's it. Get over it. How about this, why is the NYTimes willing to let it's reporter to jail when they could reveal her source themselves. They know who it is, and the Supreme Court of the land has spoken and determined what he law is. There are no more findings of law to be done. Who spoke to Judith Miller? THAT should be the big question and he/she should definitely be determined. Everybody else revealed their sources, now the Times should. If they think that they are above the law maybe then everybody at the Times who knows who the source is should also spend a few days in casa de Rikers. That would tickle me to no end.
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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From http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/49903.htm
Scandal Implosion John Podhoretz July 12, 2005 -- I WROTE a column on Oct. 10, 2003, about the strange case of Joseph Wilson and Valerie Plame. Wilson was the former ambassador sent by the CIA to investigate whether Saddam Hussein had sought to purchase uranium in Africa; Plame, his CIA agent wife. In that column, I offered my speculation of what an administration official might have said to a journalist to explain just how Wilson ? a Clinton administration official ? got the assignment in the first place: "Administration official: 'We didn't send him there. Cheney's office asked CIA to get more information. CIA picked Wilson . . . Look, I hear his wife's in the CIA. He's got nothing to do. She wanted to throw him a bone.' " Hate to say I told you so, but . . . According to this week's Newsweek, Karl Rove said something very similar indeed to Time magazine's Matthew Cooper: In the Cooper e-mails just surrendered by Time to the prosecutor looking into the Plame case, "Cooper wrote that Rove offered him a 'big warning' not to 'get too far out on Wilson.' Rove told Cooper that Wilson's trip had not been authorized by . . . CIA Director George Tenet . . . or Vice President Dick Cheney. Rather, 'it was, [Rove] said, Wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on WMD [weapons of mass destruction] issues who authorized the trip.' " There's no mistaking the purpose of this conversation between Cooper and Rove. It wasn't intended to discredit, defame or injure Wilson's wife. It was intended to throw cold water on the import, seriousness and supposedly high level of Wilson's findings. While some may differ on the fairness of discrediting Joseph Wilson, it sure isn't any kind of crime. Rove was suggesting to Cooper that folks lower down in the CIA than its own director commandeered the process so that the husband of one of their own could get the gig. And the husband in question then went and misrepresented his findings to various journalists (The Washington Post's Walter Pincus and The New York Times's Nicholas Kristof) and then in his own now-famous Times op-ed. This Rove-Cooper conversation discredits Wilson, not Plame. In fact, nothing we know so far was done either with the purpose of exposing or even the knowledge that these remarks would be exposing an undercover CIA operative. But Plame's undercover status at the time was and is a little questionable in any case. How undercover could she have been when her name was published at the time as part of Joseph Wilson's own biography online (see cpsag.com/our_team/wilson.html)? So if the offense wasn't against Plame, what of the offense against Wilson? There was no offense. As many of Joe Wilson's own hottest defenders would no doubt argue in relation to President Bush, exposing a liar is not only not a crime, it's a public service. And Wilson lied. Repeatedly. First off, Wilson long denied he was recommended for the job by his wife: "Valerie had nothing to do with the matter," he writes in his book. "She definitely had not proposed that I make the trip." But the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence actually found the memo in which Valerie Plame recommended her husband for the job. There were other lies as well. Wilson's own report was far from definitive in any way on the question of whether Iraq was seeking uranium from Niger ? thus giving the lie to his later bald claim that he came back insisting there was no link. "The report on the former ambassador's [Wilson's] trip to Niger, disseminated in March 2002," said the Senate Select Committee, "did not change any analysts' assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on the uranium deal, but the State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) analysts believed that the report supported their assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq." Thus, Rove was telling Cooper the truth. According to one of Cooper's e-mails, "not only the genesis of the trip is flawed an[d] suspect but so is the report. He [Rove] implied strongly there's still plenty to implicate Iraqi interest in acquiring uranium fro[m] Niger . . ." A few days later, for reasons that remain unexplained, the United States said it could no longer stand by the claim in the 2003 State of the Union that Saddam was seeking uranium in Africa. But that retraction of Bush's words remains hotly controversial. As a 2004 British inquiry chaired by Lord Butler put it: "We conclude that, on the basis of the intelligence assessments at the time, covering both Niger and the Democratic Republic of Congo, the statements on Iraqi attempts to buy uranium from Africa in the Government's dossier, and by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, were well-founded." What isn't controversial is this: Karl Rove didn't "out" Valerie Plame as a CIA agent to intimidate Joe Wilson. He was dismissing Joe Wilson as a low-level has-been hack to whom nobody should pay attention. He was right then, and if he said it today, he'd still be right. And if Valerie Plame wants to live a quiet spy life, she should stop having her picture taken by society photographers and stop getting stories written about her on the front page of the Times. E-mail: podhoretz@nypost.com ******************************* I could post a dozen links to articles with even more information than this. For example, before Robert Novak's column was ever printed it was common knowledge among the Washington press corps that Plame worked for the CIA. Andrea Mitchell admitted that (reluctantly) on an MSNBC broadcast when pressed on the point. How can Rove (who apparently didn't even know her name, just that she was married to Wilson) be said to have "outed" Plame? That's like accusing a Rolling Stone writer doing a retrospective on Elton John of "outing" him by noting he's gay. And of course there is no indication Plame comes anywhere close to fitting the definition of "undercover". She was just another analyst desk jockey in the CIA's WMD department. It's no crime to tell someone that so and so works for the CIA. It is a crime to knowingly blow the cover of an undercover agent. That's not what happened here by a long shot. What's so hilarious about this latest scandalette is how assiduously the MSM avoids mentioning the real story here -- that Wilson lied repeatedly about just about every aspect of his "investigatory" trip. He lied in his book, he lied to journalists, he lied in his column in The Times. When the MSM was seizing on Wilson's "reports" to try to pooh-pooh the yellowcake story, it was front page news day after day. When it was discovered Wilson was bullshitting his ass off from the get-go, there was dead silence in the MSM. I'm laughing my ass off about this whole thing. Phred
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Daisy Chain Eate Registered: 12/04/03 Posts: 2,400 Loc: New York |
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I'm not talking about Judith Miller or a bunch of reporters or Helen Thomas (who wasn't there) or whether or not Rove did anything.
What in the FUCK are you talking about? Read my post again, dude. The intelligent people I'm referring to are any intelligent people who read or watched the briefing. -------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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![]() Registered: 02/06/02 Posts: 4,454 Loc: Last seen: 11 years, 4 months |
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a majority of the reporters were not accusing anyone of anything... they were simply asking "why all the secrecy, Now?"
if they can not back up their own statements, why should their statements be trusted? you either do what you say you were gonna do (especially when the heat is on).. or you don't -- and you provide a pretty convincing argument as to why you changed your mind. explain to me why political leaders should have freedom to do otherwise. Edited by Grav (07/12/05 09:52 PM)
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Prince of Bugs ![]() Registered: 10/08/02 Posts: 44,175 Last seen: 6 months, 28 days |
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I have been leaning right quite a bit lately, but this was a major fuck-up by the administration.
Seeing McClellan (sp?) at that press release made me want to throttle him. He should just have sucked it up and admitted he was wrong before.
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It's the psychedelic movement! Registered: 04/20/01 Posts: 34,267 Loc: High pride! Last seen: 6 hours, 48 minutes |
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GATE! GATE! GATE! GATE!
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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Religion=Rape Registered: 11/18/01 Posts: 1,280 Loc: Amerika |
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He should be sent to Gitmo.
-------------------- ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey. There is such emotion in the distortion.
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Devil's Advocate Registered: 09/24/03 Posts: 22,518 Loc: Mod not God Last seen: 1 year, 9 months |
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Rove looks in the clear right now. But Phred... please remember, "This is an ongoing investigation."
![]() There were TWO sources, and I am interested in the second. 'Cause someone said MORE than what Rove's been pegged with... so far. I am interested in how well Rove's story jives with the Time reporter's testimony. I am interested in the grand jury investigation... and it's outcome. Much is under wraps right now... and BOTH sides are making premature judgements. Didn't anyone do anything wrong? We should soon find out. I doubt Judith Miller's the biggest criminal this investigation will turn up! The Press Secretary isn't looking very good right now ... other than THAT, the jury's still out.One thing's for sure, when the Republicans attack someone's credibility... ie: Wilson... there's a good chance they are just playing textbook politics. Conservatives ASSASSINATE the character of anyone who causes them harm. That's straight from Repub Debate Tactics 101. "Wilson LIED about URANIUM (yet he came VERY close to the truth!)... while WE lied about... uranium and WMD'S! Let's ATTACK Wilson!" I'm sure Wilson didn't mean to lie... just like Rove didn't mean to blow his wife's cover. ![]() Lie is a strong term too. Wilson didn't LIE to my knowledge... he was just WRONG. BUT he was closer to the truth than The President's infamous 16 words. They both got it WRONG... but, Wilson got it LESS wrong. Well, who was right? Wilson, the Conservatives? Anybody? ...heh, France actually came pretty close... but they were just in it for the oil. ![]() Rove sure puts the dick back into the tricks. Where's Ken Star when we need him? -------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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No, Wilson lied. That's not "too strong a term" at all. He flat out lied, several times, about several things.
And no, he wasn't "closer to the truth" than the 16 words. The 16 words in fact turned out to be the truth, as both the Butler Commission and the Senate Intelligence Committee determined. Phred
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Devil's Advocate Registered: 09/24/03 Posts: 22,518 Loc: Mod not God Last seen: 1 year, 9 months |
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Then where's the yellow cake?
Link? (notice n00bs... Phred ignored all but one of my points, the only point he wished to argue, helps to continue the ever popular, character assassination tactic... Repub 101 indeed.) Guess who Wilson voted for in 2000?... George W. Bush -------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Devil's Advocate Registered: 09/24/03 Posts: 22,518 Loc: Mod not God Last seen: 1 year, 9 months |
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Here's the Republican National Comitee Chairman outlining the suggested talking points on how to defend Rove. Can you count the number of times Wilson is named and his character is assassinated? Now, how many times is Karl Rove even mentioned in these talking points? N00bs?
Welcome to Repub 101. ![]() http://www.rnc.org/News/Read.asp Quote: Keep in mind, the MAIN argument in these talking points is Wilson LIED about who sent him to Niger. Well, guess what... if he had told the truth, HE WOULD HAVE BLOWN HIS OWN WIFE'S COVER!!! Ironic? That would have been an entirely different scandle. Instead, Wilson saved his wife's seceret... Rove did not. The SECONDARY argument seems to be Wilson was a Kerry supporter. FOR SHAME! Can you BLAME him? Look at what the guys he voted for in 2000 did for him and his family! This is a THINLY veiled character assassination. Now, how many times was Karl Rove mentioned? I saw 2... one in the Title, and the other is in the first paragraph. ![]() The RNC is purposley moving the argument AWAY from ROVE and towards wilson. Elegent bullshit. I wonder what Rush Limbaugh will have to say... If you liked THAT link from the RNC, look at this one: Republicans Defend Karl Rove From Partisan Attacks http://www.rnc.org/News/Read.asp Here's the actual Republican talking points. http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Ex "I'm laughing my ass off about this whole thing. Phred" -------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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Where's the yellow cake? It's in Niger.
I didn't "address" the rest of your points because they've already been addressed. The only one who did anything wrong was Wilson. As for the reason there are Republican points dealing with Wilson's credibility, it's because Wilson has no credibility. He lied about his wife getting him the assignment. He lied about the assignment being given to him by Cheney. He lied about what he was told in Niger during his eight day tea-sipping "investigation". He lied about seeing a report which didn't even come to light till eight months after his return from Niger and his verbal report to the CIA. Rove, on the other hand, did nothing other than warn a reporter that he'd better not place too much credence on whatever Wilson was telling him. That's it, that's all. Rove didn't "out" anyone, least of all Plame. How can you "out" someone who was already known by the Washington press corps to be a CIA employee? What Rove was doing was warning a reporter that if he didn't check things a bit more carefully he'd end up disseminating false information -- Wilson's fable -- to the American public. Phred
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Live to party,work to affordit. Registered: 10/03/04 Posts: 8,978 Loc: South Texas Last seen: 13 years, 1 month |
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President Bush could clear this up by appointing Rove to the Supreme Court.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Prince of Bugs ![]() Registered: 10/08/02 Posts: 44,175 Last seen: 6 months, 28 days |
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Quote: So if your wife was a CIA operative, you would tell everyone who asked that she sent you on some mission to Africa? I don't find fault in him lying to keep his wife's identity secret.
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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I found the following at http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_07_10-2005_07_16.shtml and I've copied out a lot of it for your convenience. The red sections are hotlinks to the sources referred to. I'm not going to spend all morning making those hotlinks active. Those interested in checking them are invited to go to the article linked above and click on as many links as they please.
*************************************** JOSEPH WILSON TO APPEAR THURSDAY MORNING ON TODAY SHOW.-- I see that Joseph Wilson is going to be interviewed on NBC?s TODAY show on Thursday morning. Given our adversarial press, this should be a wonderful opportunity for NBC reporters to get to the bottom of things. I would hope that they would ask Wilson questions about his complicity in his wife?s outing. If Wilson hadn?t lied to the press or the public about what he found in Niger, about how he was hired to go to Niger, and about the Italian forged document, then there would have been no reason for people to try to correct the misimpressions he created and the lies he told. As the Washington Post reported: ?According to the former Niger mining minister, Wilson told his CIA contacts, Iraq tried to buy 400 tons of uranium in 1998.? So Wilson had found evidence that tended to confirm the substance of the sentence in Bush?s 2003 State of the Union address: ?The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.? The bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee 2004 report exposed Wilson?s lies on what he found and told the CIA, as well as the one about how Wilson was hired. Wilson said that his wife Valerie Plame had nothing to do with his being hired: ?Valerie had nothing to do with the matter." "She definitely had not proposed that I make the trip." But the 2004 Senate Intelligence report said that she first suggested him for the trip and then followed up with a memo touting his suitability for the mission. It would be great if NBC TODAY would probe Wilson on these matters. The Wall Street Journal says that Wilson had started lying to the press and public about how he was hired before his wife was outed, in part by Rove. Correcting this lie (were Plame not a covert agent) not only would be a smart partisan thing to do, but it would be the right thing to do. Wilson was publicly lying about what he found in Niger, publicly lying about what he reported to the CIA, and (according to the WSJ) publicly lying about how he was hired. Except for the ?covert agent? issue, it would be right to correct all these lies. Indeed, reporter Cooper?s email reveals that Rove was offering a ?big warning? ?not to get too far out on Wilson,? a warning that the press should have heeded but didn?t. They believed Wilson, only to find out that his account was untrue. But it appears probable, though not certain, that Plame was a covert agent (the statutory definition turns on whether she was on undercover missions outside the US in the 5 years before the disclosure of her identity, a factual issue that for some reason few outside of Powerline have focused on). The other reason that Plame may not have been a covert agent is that, according to bloggers quoting Andrea Mitchell, who was involved in NBC?s early stories on Wilson, it was widely known that Wilson?s wife worked for the CIA. Yet if Plame was a ?covert agent,? it would not be right or justified for Rove to expose Plame?s identity. Here it would be good to ask Wilson whether he thought that by lying about what he found in Niger and what he told the CIA and how he was selected, he was gambling with his wife?s safety. How could he be sure that people would know that Plame was a covert agent, or that there was a law against revealing her identity? Perhaps someone might have reasonably believed that they were correcting misimpressions that Wilson himself had created. Did Wilson realize that he had put the Administration in something analogous to a Catch-22?: Wilson can lie about how he was hired but the Administration can?t correct his lie without outing his wife. Did Wilson consciously decide to gamble with his wife?s safety by lying in a way that would be hard for the Administration to correct? This is the line of questioning that I would most like NBC TODAY to explore (in a more respectful tone, of course). One of the revelations of the Time Magazine Cooper email is that it gives the context of Rove?s disclosure that Wilson was suggested by his wife. The context strongly suggests that it wasn?t retaliation, but rather it was part of a discussion trying to correct any misimpressions of how Wilson was hired to do the mission. According to the Cooper email, Rove discussed whether the Director of the CIA or Vice President Cheney had authorized the trip. So on the legal charge of intentional disclosure of Plame?s undercover identity, there is nothing in the Cooper email to suggest the sort of knowledge by Rove necessary to convict under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 (50 U.S.C. 421 et seq.). It punishes one who ?intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent's intelligence relationship to the United States . . .? It's not even clear (beyond a reasonable doubt, no less) that Rove knew Plame's name, knew that the information that he disclosed identified her, or knew that the US was taking affirmative steps to conceal her relationship to the intelligence community (if it was indeed doing so). Of course, other evidence might be offered to show that Rove knew that he was contributing to the outing of an undercover CIA agent, rather than just explaining the context of the hiring of Wilson; but the Cooper email certainly doesn?t help the prosecutors in proving intent. The intent standard on this charge is particularly high, and will be hard for prosecutors to meet. For this reason, the country?s three leading newspapers?the Wall Street Journal, the NY Times, and the Washington Post?have concluded that, by leaking, no crime was committed or they seriously doubt that any crime was committed. ************************************ There's more at the link, but the excerpts above cover pretty thoroughly the gist of the situation -- Wilson lied repeatedly about everything from how he got the assignment to what he discovered to what he reported and to whom he reported. No one cares how he got the assignment. I certainly don't. I don't care if it was his wife who recommended him or if they picked his name out of a hat. What I care about is that he botched the assignment from the get go and deliberately misrepresented the little information he did receive in a partisan attempt to damage the president. Phred
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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Quote: If she were a covert operative? No, I wouldn't. I'd just say I was sent by the government. If pressed further, I'd say I was sent by the CIA. I wouldn't say I was sent by Cheney. But that's just me. I have a different way of doing things than Joe Wilson does. Phred
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Prince of Bugs ![]() Registered: 10/08/02 Posts: 44,175 Last seen: 6 months, 28 days |
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Yeah, he did fuck up badly by lying about the things he saw while overseas, that's for damn sure.
I'm just really sketchy on the Rove-Cooper incident, but I'm not going to say he should be charged until anything else comes to the surface.
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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Ah ha. We have an update. From the same main link I provided above:
UPDATE: Well, something that looks like a Today Show transcript is up on MSNBC's website, and its dateline is "Today show[,] Updated: 8:24 a.m. ET July 14, 2005." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8568266/ The interview, conducted by Jamie Gangel, is an embarrassment. The hardest question asked is: "Your critics have said that this is partisan on your part, that you are part of a Democratic attempt to discredit Iraq policy." Frankly, the question of bias is relevant only AFTER one determines if someone is telling the truth. If what Joe Wilson said were true, it wouldn't matter that he was a Kerry supporter. The question of bias is meaningful only in trying to figure out WHY Wilson was wrong, not WHETHER Wilson was wrong. People often have partisan motives for doing the right thing or exposing lies--among other motives, such as the desire to be decent and honest. ******************************** Phred
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Live to party,work to affordit. Registered: 10/03/04 Posts: 8,978 Loc: South Texas Last seen: 13 years, 1 month |
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Joe Wilson's Top Ten Worst Inaccuracies And Misstatements
www.GOP.COM | 7/14/05 | GOP.COM Thursday, July 14, 2005 Joe Wilson's Top Ten Worst Inaccuracies And Misstatements 1.) Wilson Insisted That The Vice President?s Office Sent Him To Niger: Wilson Said He Traveled To Niger At CIA Request To Help Provide Response To Vice President?s Office. ?In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney?s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. ? The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president?s office.? (Joseph C. Wilson, Op-Ed, ?What I Didn?t Find In Africa,? The New York Times, 7/6/03) Joe Wilson: ?[W]hat They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libby?s Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself ...? (CNN?s ?Late Edition,? 8/3/03) Vice President Cheney: ?I Don?t Know Joe Wilson. I?ve Never Met Joe Wilson. ? And Joe Wilson - I Don?t [Know] Who Sent Joe Wilson. He Never Submitted A Report That I Ever Saw When He Came Back.? (NBC?s ?Meet The Press,? 9/14/03) CIA Director George Tenet: ?In An Effort To Inquire About Certain Reports Involving Niger, CIA?s Counter-Proliferation Experts, On Their Own Initiative, Asked An Individual With Ties To The Region To Make A Visit To See What He Could Learn.? (Central Intelligence Agency, ?Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,? Press Release, 7/11/03) 2.) Wilson Claimed The Vice President And Other Senior White House Officials Were Briefed On His Niger Report: ?[Wilson] Believed That [His Report] Would Have Been Distributed To The White House And That The Vice President Received A Direct Response To His Question About The Possible Uranium Deal.? (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,? 7/7/04) The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Reported That The Vice President Was Not Briefed On Wilson?s Report. ?Conclusion 14. The Central Intelligence Agency should have told the Vice President and other senior policymakers that it had sent someone to Niger to look into the alleged Iraq-Niger uranium deal and it should have briefed the Vice President on the former ambassador?s findings.? (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,? 7/7/04) CIA Director George Tenet: ?Because This Report, In Our View, Did Not Resolve Whether Iraq Was Or Was Not Seeking Uranium From Abroad, It Was Given A Normal And Wide Distribution, But We Did Not Brief It To The President, Vice-President Or Other Senior Administration Officials.? (Central Intelligence Agency, ?Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,? Press Release, 7/11/03) 3.) Wilson Has Claimed His Niger Report Was Conclusive And Significant Wilson Claims His Trip Proved There Was Nothing To The Uranium ?Allegations.? ?I knew that [Dr. Rice] had fundamentally misstated the facts. In fact, she had lied about it. I had gone out and I had undertaken this study. I had come back and said that this was not feasible. ? This government knew that there was nothing to these allegations.? (NBC?s, ?Meet The Press,? 5/2/04) Officials Said Evidence In Wilson?s Niger Report Was ?Thin? And His ?Homework Was Shoddy.? (Michael Duffy, ?Leaking With A Vengeance,? Time, 10/13/03) Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: ?Conclusion 13. The Report On The Former Ambassador?s Trip To Niger, Disseminated In March 2002, Did Not Change Any Analysts? Assessments Of The Iraq-Niger Uranium Deal.? (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,? 7/7/04) ?For Most Analysts, The Information In The Report Lent More Credibility To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Report On The Uranium Deal, But State Department Bureau Of Intelligence And Research (INR) Analysts Believed That The Report Supported Their Assessments That Niger Was Unlikely To Be Willing Or Able To Sell Uranium.? (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,? 7/7/04) CIA Said Wilson?s Findings Did Not Resolve The Issue. ?Because [Wilson?s] report, in our view, did not resolve whether Iraq was or was not seeking uranium from abroad, it was given a normal and wide distribution, but we did not brief it to the president, vice president or other senior administration officials. We also had to consider that the former Nigerien officials knew that what they were saying would reach the U.S. government and that this might have influenced what they said.? (Central Intelligence Agency, ?Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,? Press Release 7/11/03) The Butler Report Claimed That The President?s State Of the Union Statement On Uranium From Africa, ?Was Well-Founded.? ?We conclude that, on the basis of the intelligence assessments at the time, covering both Niger and the Democratic Republic of Congo, the statements on Iraqi attempts to buy uranium from Africa in the Government?s dossier, and by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, were well-founded. By extension, we conclude also that the statement in President Bush?s State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that: ?The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.? was well-founded.? (The Rt. Hon. The Lord Butler Of Brockwell, ?Review Of Intelligence, On Weapons Of Mass Destruction,? 7/14/04) 4.) Wilson Denied His Wife Suggested He Travel To Niger In 2002: Wilson Claimed His Wife Did Not Suggest He Travel To Niger To Investigate Reports Of Uranium Deal; Instead, Wilson Claims It Came Out Of Meeting With CIA. CNN?s Wolf Blitzer: ?Among other things, you had always said, always maintained, still maintain your wife, Valerie Plame, a CIA officer, had nothing to do with the decision to send to you Niger to inspect reports that uranium might be sold from Niger to Iraq. ? Did Valerie Plame, your wife, come up with the idea to send you to Niger?? Joe Wilson: ?No. My wife served as a conduit, as I put in my book. When her supervisors asked her to contact me for the purposes of coming into the CIA to discuss all the issues surrounding this allegation of Niger selling uranium to Iraq.? (CNN?s ?Late Edition,? 7/18/04) But Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Received Not Only Testimony But Actual Documentation Indicating Wilson?s Wife Proposed Him For Trip. ?Some CPD, [CIA Counterproliferation Division] officials could not recall how the office decided to contact the former ambassador, however, interviews and documents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD employee, suggested his name for the trip. The CPD reports officer told Committee staff that the former ambassador?s wife ?offered up his name? and a memorandum to the Deputy Chief of the CPD on February 12, 2002, from the former ambassador?s wife says, ?my husband has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.?? (Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,? U.S. Senate, 7/7/04) 5.) Wilson Has Claimed His 1999 Trip To Niger Was Not Suggested By His Wife: Wilson Claims CIA Thought To Ask Him To Make Trip Because He Had Previously Made Trip For Them In 1999, Not Because Of His Wife?s Suggestion. CNN?s Wolf Blitzer: ?Who first raised your name, then, based on what you know? Who came up with the idea to send you there?? Joe Wilson: ?The CIA knew my name from a trip, and it?s in the report, that I had taken in 1999 related to uranium activities but not related to Iraq. I had served for 23 years in government including as Bill Clinton?s Senior Director for African Affairs at the National Security Council. I had done a lot of work with the Niger government during a period punctuated by a military coup and a subsequent assassination of a president. So I knew all the people there.? (CNN?s ?Late Edition,? 7/18/04) In Fact, His Wife Suggested Him For 1999 Trip, As Well. ?The former ambassador had traveled previously to Niger on the CIA?s behalf ? The former ambassador was selected for the 1999 trip after his wife mentioned to her supervisors that her husband was planning a business trip to Niger in the near future and might be willing to use his contacts in the region ?? (Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,? U.S. Senate, 7/7/04) 6.) Wilson Claimed He Was A Victim Of A Partisan Smear Campaign Joe Wilson: ?Well, I Don?t Know. Obviously, There?s Been This Orchestrated Campaign, This Smear Campaign. I Happen To Think That It?s Because The RNC, The Republican National Committee?s Been Involved In This In A Big Way ?? CNN?s Wolf Blitzer: ?But They Weren?t Involved In The Senate Intelligence Committee Report.? Wilson: ?No, They Weren?t.? (CNN?s ?Late Edition,? 7/18/04) Senate Intelligence Committee Unanimously Concluded That Wilson?s Report ?Lent More Credibility? For Most Analysts ?To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Reports.? ?Conclusion 13. The report on the former ambassador?s trip to Niger, disseminated in March 2002, did not change any analysts? assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on the uranium deal, but the State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) analysts believed that the report supported their assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq.? (Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,? U.S. Senate, 7/7/04) Members Of The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence That Wrote The Unanimous ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq?: Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI) Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL) Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN) Sen. John Edwards (D-NC) Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS) Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) Sen. Mike DeWine (R-OH) Sen. Christopher Bond (R-MO) Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS) Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME) Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE) Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) Sen. John Warner (R-VA) (Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,? U.S. Senate, 7/7/04) 7.) A Month Before The Bob Novak And Matthew Cooper Articles Ever Came Out, Wilson Told The Washington Post That Previous Intelligence Reports About Niger Were Based On Forged Documents: In June Of 2003, Wilson Told The Washington Post ?The Niger Intelligence Was Based On Documents That Had Clearly Been Forged Because ?The Dates Were Wrong And The Names Were Wrong.?? (Susan Schmidt, ?Plame?s Input Is Cited On Niger Mission,? The Washington Post, 7/10/04) However, ?The [Senate Select Committee On Intelligence] Report ? Said Wilson Provided Misleading Information To The Washington Post Last June [12th, 2003].? (Susan Schmidt, ?Plame?s Input Is Cited On Niger Mission,? The Washington Post, 7/10/04) Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: ?The Former Ambassador Said That He May Have ?Misspoken? To The Reporter When He Said He Concluded The Documents Were ?Forged.?? (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,? 7/7/04) 8.) Wilson Claimed His Book Would Enrich Debate: NBC?s Katie Couric: ?What Do You Hope The Whole Point Of This Book Will Be? Joe Wilson: ?Well, I - I Hope, One, It Will Tell - It Tries To Tell An Interesting Story. Two, I Hope That It Enriches The Debate In A Year In Which We Are All Called Upon As Americans To Elect Our Leaders. And Three, ? That [It] Says That This Is A Great Democracy That Is Worthy Of Our Taking Our Responsibilities As Stewards Seriously.? (NBC?s ?Today Show,? 5/3/04) Wilson Admits In His Book That He Had Been Involved In ?A Little Literary Flair? When Talking To Reporters. ?[Wilson] wrote in his book, he told Committee staff that his assertion may have involved ?a little literary flair.?? (Matthew Continetti, ??A Little Literary Flair?? The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04) Wilson?s Book The Politics Of Truth: Inside The Lies That Put The White House On Trial And Betrayed My Wife?s CIA Identity Has Been Panned In Numerous Reviews For Its Inaccuracies: ?On Page One Of Chapter One, He Quotes NBC Talk Show Host Chris Matthews, Who Told Him That, After Mr. Wilson Chose To Go Public: ?Wilson?s Wife Is Fair Game.? Later, He Bases His List Of Suspect Leakers On Conversations With Members Of The News Media And A ?Source Close To The House Judiciary Committee.?? (Eli Lake, Op-Ed, ?Don?t Quit Your Day Job, Mr. Wilson,? New York Post, 5/4/04) ?For Example, When Asked How He ?Knew? That The Intelligence Community Had Rejected The Possibility Of A Niger-Iraq Uranium Deal, As He Wrote In His Book, He Told [Senate Intelligence] Committee Staff That His Assertion May Have Involved ?A Little Literary Flair.?? (Matthew Continetti, ??A Little Literary Flair,?? The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04) The Boston Globe: ?In Essence, Much Of Wilson?s Book Is An Attempt To Portray The Bush Administration As A Ministry Of Fear Whose Mission In Pursuing War In Iraq Required It To Proclaim A Lie As Truth.? (Michael D. Langan, Op-Ed, ??Truth? Makes Much Of Bush Controversy,? The Boston Globe, 5/4/04) Newsweek?s Evan Thomas Wrote In The Washington Post: ?[W]ilson?s Claims And Conclusions Are Either Long Hashed Over Or Based On What The Intelligence Business Describes As ?Rumint,? Or Rumor Intelligence.? (Evan Thomas, Op-Ed, ?Indecent Exposure,? The Washington Post, 5/16/04) 9.) Wilson Claimed The CIA Provided Him With Information Related To The Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction: ?The Former Ambassador Noted That His CIA Contacts Told Him There Were Documents Pertaining To The Alleged Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction And That The Source Of The Information Was The [Redacted] Intelligence Service.? (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,? 7/7/04) However, ?The DO [Director Of Operations At The CIA] Reports Officer Told Committee Staff That He Did Not Provide The Former Ambassador With Any Information About The Source Or Details ?? (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,? 7/7/04) 10.) Wilson Claimed He Is A Non-Partisan ?Centrist?: Recently, Joe Wilson Refused To Admit He Is A Registered Democrat. NBC?s Jamie Gangel: ?You are a Democrat?? Joe Wilson: ?I exercise my rights as a citizen of this country to participate in the selection of my leaders and I am proud to do so. I did so in the election in 2000 by contributing not just to Al Gore's campaign, but also to the Bush-Cheney campaign.? (NBC?s ?Today Show,? 7/14/05) ?[Wilson] Insist[s] He Remained A Centrist At Heart.? (Scott Shane, ?Private Spy And Public Spouse Live At Center Of Leak Case,? The New York Times, 7/5/05) Joe Wilson Is A Registered Democrat. (District Of Columbia Voter Registrations, Accessed 7/14/05) Joseph Wilson Has Donated Over $8,000 To Democrats Including $2,000 To John Kerry For President In 2003, $1,000 To Hillary Clinton?s (D-NY) HILLPAC In 2002 And $3,000 To Al Gore In 1999. (The Center For Responsive Politics Website, www.opensecrets.org, Accessed 7/12/05) Wilson Endorsed John Kerry For President In October 2003 And Advised The Kerry Campaign. (David Tirrell-Wysocki, ?Former Ambassador Wilson Endorses Kerry In Presidential Race,? The Associated Press, 10/23/03) ?[Wilson] Admits ?It Will Be A Cold Day In Hell Before I Vote For A Republican, Even For Dog Catcher.?? (Scott Shane, ?Private Spy And Public Spouse Live At Center Of Leak Case,? The New York Times, 7/5/05) -------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Prince of Bugs ![]() Registered: 10/08/02 Posts: 44,175 Last seen: 6 months, 28 days |
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Is there knowledge as to why he would have lied about the uranium? That seems curious to me.
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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I can only speculate. My opinion is Wilson was trying to discredit Bush. I can think of no other reason. Maybe someone else can.
Phred
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Devil's Advocate Registered: 09/24/03 Posts: 22,518 Loc: Mod not God Last seen: 1 year, 9 months |
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n00b notice:
Wilson is STILL the topic of conversation... not Rove. This is getting old. -------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Religion=Rape Registered: 11/18/01 Posts: 1,280 Loc: Amerika |
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Rove isnt in the clear by any means. If you were listening to the republican spin machine I could see how you could think otherwise. Their argument is that he didnt leak her name. Its not about whether he leaked her name, he leaked her identity.
-------------------- ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey. There is such emotion in the distortion.
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Devil's Advocate Registered: 09/24/03 Posts: 22,518 Loc: Mod not God Last seen: 1 year, 9 months |
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I love how they call her Mrs. Plaime... she is known as Mrs. WILSON.
Here's the infamous Newsweek story... which the Repubs are defending against. Quote: Expect Matt Cooper from Time to write an article next week, about his grand jury appearance. -------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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Quote: That's because Rove did nothing wrong, while Wilson did. Wilson wrote in his book, The Politics of Truth, that he and his future wife both returned from overseas assignments in June 1997. Neither spouse, a reading of the book indicates, was again stationed overseas. They appear to have remained in Washington, D.C., where they married and became parents of twins. Those twins are now five years old. This meant that Plame would have been stationed in the U.S. for six years before Bob Novak published his column citing her two years ago. As USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-07-14-cia-wilson_x.htm notes: Quote: So Plame ceased to meet the definition of a covert agent a year before Rove had his conversation with the Time reporter. Unless, of course, Wilson was lying about the date she returned from overseas as well. Reviewing his track record on other matters, it's a possibility. Still, I imagine it wouldn't be very difficult for a prosecutor to find out the date of her return. The court would then have independent verification of that date -- they wouldn't have to rely on Wilson's statements. Phred
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Devil's Advocate Registered: 09/24/03 Posts: 22,518 Loc: Mod not God Last seen: 1 year, 9 months |
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This is an ongoing investigation.
![]() The grand jury's still out. p.s. The Press is PISSED. -------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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Of course the Press is pissed, duh. The vast majority of the MSM is anti-Bush and anti-Rove. They're pissed because they've got nothing to pin on Rove.
They're pissed because hundreds of blogs are demonstrating to the public quite clearly that the press can't keep their facts straight from one year to the next and possess less investigatory skills than Wilson. No one likes to make an ass of themselves in public. Too bad the press corps can't seem to prevent themselves from doing so on a regular basis. Phred
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Daisy Chain Eate Registered: 12/04/03 Posts: 2,400 Loc: New York |
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This is what I'm saying! I don't understand why the WH doesn't loosen up a little bit. I mean, forget about bias for the moment (though yeah, it's definitely playing a part). Almost every single member of the press corps is leaving these briefings determined to make the White House just as pissed as they are. They're doing their damndest to make sure what gets printed is suggestive and gets good placement on the page or in the evening line up. Throw them a bone so they don't leave the room salivating for your spleen, right?
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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Devil's Advocate Registered: 09/24/03 Posts: 22,518 Loc: Mod not God Last seen: 1 year, 9 months |
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Yup, that is the problem for the White House... not what Rove did... the PRESS. They are really upset at how Judith Miller has been treated and how the Press Secretary has responded to their questions. THEY WON'T LET THIS DIE. It hits too close to home.
With each day, the press gets louder. Judith Miller will likely be detained until October. Rove may have to quit... and just become an invisible advisor, before the press will back off. This is VERY bad publicity... worse than anything Michael Moore dug up. The Press isn't letting the Talking points slip by any more. They are following up on important issues. John Stewart would be proud. ![]() They're finally talking about the lies that led us into Iraq! I can't wait to see what the grand jury produces. -------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Live to party,work to affordit. Registered: 10/03/04 Posts: 8,978 Loc: South Texas Last seen: 13 years, 1 month |
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The press sounds like a little kid saying, "You're not the boss of me."
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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It's the psychedelic movement! Registered: 04/20/01 Posts: 34,267 Loc: High pride! Last seen: 6 hours, 48 minutes |
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Quote: If you haven't seen it already, I recommend watching some of the latest clips about Leak Gate. Watch "McClellan's Flop Sweat", "Hot Karl", "Best Leak Ever" and "More Best Leak Ever". Click here.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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Daisy Chain Eate Registered: 12/04/03 Posts: 2,400 Loc: New York |
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-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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CEO DBK? Registered: 11/08/02 Posts: 32,665 Loc: Ripple's Heart |
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The hot karl one is hilarious...
the whole condi/tenet/rove bit is golden. -------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Devil's Advocate Registered: 09/24/03 Posts: 22,518 Loc: Mod not God Last seen: 1 year, 9 months |
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July 18th, 2005 2:55 pm
White House Denials in CIA Leak Probe Associated Press Previous denials by White House spokesman Scott McClellan that Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, and presidential political adviser Karl Rove were involved in leaking the identity of covert CIA officer Valerie Plame. Reporters posed the questions during White House briefings. Oct. 7, 2003 Q. Scott, you have said that you personally went to Scooter Libby, Karl Rove and Elliott Abrams to ask them if they were the leakers. Is that what happened? Why did you do that? And can you describe the conversations you had with them? What was the question you asked? McClellan: Unfortunately, in Washington, D.C., at a time like this there are a lot of rumors and innuendo. There are unsubstantiated accusations that are made. And that's exactly what happened in the case of these three individuals. They are good individuals. They are important members of our White House team. And that's why I spoke with them, so that I could come back to you and say that they were not involved. I had no doubt with that in the beginning, but I like to check my information to make sure it's accurate before I report back to you, and that's exactly what I did. ___ Oct. 10, 2003 Q. Yes, Scott. Earlier this week you told us that neither Karl Rove, Elliott Abrams nor Lewis Libby disclosed any classified information with regard to the leak. I wonder if you could tell us more specifically whether any of them told any reporter that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA. McClellan: Those individuals ? I talked ? I spoke with those individuals, as I've pointed out, and those individuals assured me they were not involved in this. And that's where it stands. Q. And none of them told any reporter that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA. McClellan: They assured me that they were not involved in this. Q. Scott, to follow up? McClellan: Yeah, go ahead, Ed. Q. Not involved in what? McClellan: The leaking of classified information. Q. Did you undertake that on your own volition, or were you instructed to go to these _ McClellan: I spoke to those individuals myself. ___ July 17, 2005 Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper's comments on NBC's "Meet the Press" about his conversation with Libby: Cooper: On background, I asked Libby if he had heard anything about Wilson's wife sending her husband to Niger. Libby replied, 'Yeah, I've heard that, too' or words to that effect. Q. Did you interpret that as a confirmation? Cooper: I did, yes. Q. Did Mr. Libby say at any time that Joe Wilson's wife worked for the CIA? Cooper: No, he didn't say that. Q. But you said it to him? Cooper: I said that she was involved in sending him, yes. Q. And that she worked for the CIA? Cooper: I believe so. Q. The piece that you finally ran in Time magazine on July 17th, it says, "And some government officials have noted to Time in interviews as well as to syndicated columnist Robert Novak that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, is a CIA official who monitors the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. These officials have suggested that she was involved in her husband's being dispatched to Niger." Some government officials ? that is Rove and Libby? Cooper: Yes, those were among the sources for that, yes. -------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Religion=Rape Registered: 11/18/01 Posts: 1,280 Loc: Amerika |
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I say we squish them like the vermin they are.
-------------------- ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey. There is such emotion in the distortion.
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CEO DBK? Registered: 11/08/02 Posts: 32,665 Loc: Ripple's Heart |
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I hope those shitbags get run out of town.
But my guess is Rove gets appointed to the Supreme Court -------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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It's the psychedelic movement! Registered: 04/20/01 Posts: 34,267 Loc: High pride! Last seen: 6 hours, 48 minutes |
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It's coming dude. Just wait............
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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CEO DBK? Registered: 11/08/02 Posts: 32,665 Loc: Ripple's Heart |
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Rove is an especially vile human...
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Son Of God Registered: 02/19/04 Posts: 1,459 Last seen: 11 years, 8 months |
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http://www.bakerlaw.com/files/tbl_s10News/FileUpload44/10159/Amici%20Brief%20032305%20(Final).PDF
I didn't see this talked about. This is an amicus brief filed in the case by 36 major news organizations. It states their official position for the court. And we are talking about all the big wigs, ABC, CBS, CNN, NBC, Associate Press, etc. It flies in the face of what these news corporations report every day in an effort to politicize and sensationalize the case against Rove. The official position of CNN, for example, is that no crime was committed in this case, and that Plame was not an undercover agent. This goes for ABC, CBS, and all the other parties that signed on. Does anyone know that when Bob Novak called up the CIA to confirm that Valarie Plame worked there they said yes? They didn't ask him not to tell, they didn't deny it, they just confirmed it. You could have called up the CIA yourself and verified that she worked there! It must have been super secret. I don't know how to cut and past from a pdf file. Color me ignorant. Open up that link and read page 32-34 if you just want some short highlights. So let me break it down as the way I see it. I am no lawyer, just a layman. 1) The liberal press doesn't like Bush or Rove. At the outset of this case, they smelled blood in the water. They clamored for a special prosecutor and did their best to make a federal case out of the deal. 2) After some of their own reporters become targets of the investigation, they band together and file their official position in court. They define their official positions to the court and claim that no crime has been committed. 3) Then they turn around and focus the public reporting of the investigation again on Karl Rove and the Bush Administration, even after stating in court that no crime has been committed and that Valarie Plame wasn't an undercover agent. Is it any wonder that people don't trust the press? How self serving and duplicitous. Why do they tell the public one thing and the courts another? I will tell you why, it serves their own interests. Karl Rove didn't out her, she had already been "outed". She was not an undercover agent. Joe Wilson was lying. No crime was ever committed. This may be the biggest non-story story in the history of journalism. -------------------- Tastes just like chicken
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Religion=Rape Registered: 11/18/01 Posts: 1,280 Loc: Amerika |
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Quote: Wrong. The CIA was still actively trying to conceal her identity, regardless of who already knew it. -------------------- ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey. There is such emotion in the distortion.
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Son Of God Registered: 02/19/04 Posts: 1,459 Last seen: 11 years, 8 months |
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That is not the official position ABC News, CBS News, NBC News, CNN, The Associate Press, or any of the other (over 30 more) major news organizations in this country. They filed their stated position in a court of law, and you can read it in my link above.
Above that, your premise is questionable. Why would the CIA confirm her identity over the telephone if they were trying to conceal it? And if her identity was widely known, and the CIA was trying to conceal it, are they still trying to conceal it today? Why would they stop just because even more people knew than knew before? Is talking about Valarie Plame a crime on this message board? Why not? Because it is publicly known? Well wasn't it publicly known before? Before Novak wrote the column, the CIA had already revealed her identity to the Cubans and the Russians, and it was widely known around Washington. Just who were they trying to conceal it from? I think it is interesting that news organizations have given little public press to their official positions that they have taken and signed off on in a court of law. I don't know how those news organizations reconcile the contrast of what they tell the public and what they tell the government. If you got such double-speak from the Bush Administration, it would be front page news my friend. -------------------- Tastes just like chicken
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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Bumped
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Live to party,work to affordit. Registered: 10/03/04 Posts: 8,978 Loc: South Texas Last seen: 13 years, 1 month |
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FREE SCOOTER LIBBY
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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... other than THAT, the jury's still out.


