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Devil's Advocate Registered: 09/24/03 Posts: 22,518 Loc: Mod not God Last seen: 1 year, 9 months |
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Rove looks in the clear right now. But Phred... please remember, "This is an ongoing investigation."
![]() There were TWO sources, and I am interested in the second. 'Cause someone said MORE than what Rove's been pegged with... so far. I am interested in how well Rove's story jives with the Time reporter's testimony. I am interested in the grand jury investigation... and it's outcome. Much is under wraps right now... and BOTH sides are making premature judgements. Didn't anyone do anything wrong? We should soon find out. I doubt Judith Miller's the biggest criminal this investigation will turn up! The Press Secretary isn't looking very good right now ... other than THAT, the jury's still out.One thing's for sure, when the Republicans attack someone's credibility... ie: Wilson... there's a good chance they are just playing textbook politics. Conservatives ASSASSINATE the character of anyone who causes them harm. That's straight from Repub Debate Tactics 101. "Wilson LIED about URANIUM (yet he came VERY close to the truth!)... while WE lied about... uranium and WMD'S! Let's ATTACK Wilson!" I'm sure Wilson didn't mean to lie... just like Rove didn't mean to blow his wife's cover. ![]() Lie is a strong term too. Wilson didn't LIE to my knowledge... he was just WRONG. BUT he was closer to the truth than The President's infamous 16 words. They both got it WRONG... but, Wilson got it LESS wrong. Well, who was right? Wilson, the Conservatives? Anybody? ...heh, France actually came pretty close... but they were just in it for the oil. ![]() Rove sure puts the dick back into the tricks. Where's Ken Star when we need him? -------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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No, Wilson lied. That's not "too strong a term" at all. He flat out lied, several times, about several things.
And no, he wasn't "closer to the truth" than the 16 words. The 16 words in fact turned out to be the truth, as both the Butler Commission and the Senate Intelligence Committee determined. Phred
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Devil's Advocate Registered: 09/24/03 Posts: 22,518 Loc: Mod not God Last seen: 1 year, 9 months |
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Then where's the yellow cake?
Link? (notice n00bs... Phred ignored all but one of my points, the only point he wished to argue, helps to continue the ever popular, character assassination tactic... Repub 101 indeed.) Guess who Wilson voted for in 2000?... George W. Bush -------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Devil's Advocate Registered: 09/24/03 Posts: 22,518 Loc: Mod not God Last seen: 1 year, 9 months |
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Here's the Republican National Comitee Chairman outlining the suggested talking points on how to defend Rove. Can you count the number of times Wilson is named and his character is assassinated? Now, how many times is Karl Rove even mentioned in these talking points? N00bs?
Welcome to Repub 101. ![]() http://www.rnc.org/News/Read.asp Quote: Keep in mind, the MAIN argument in these talking points is Wilson LIED about who sent him to Niger. Well, guess what... if he had told the truth, HE WOULD HAVE BLOWN HIS OWN WIFE'S COVER!!! Ironic? That would have been an entirely different scandle. Instead, Wilson saved his wife's seceret... Rove did not. The SECONDARY argument seems to be Wilson was a Kerry supporter. FOR SHAME! Can you BLAME him? Look at what the guys he voted for in 2000 did for him and his family! This is a THINLY veiled character assassination. Now, how many times was Karl Rove mentioned? I saw 2... one in the Title, and the other is in the first paragraph. ![]() The RNC is purposley moving the argument AWAY from ROVE and towards wilson. Elegent bullshit. I wonder what Rush Limbaugh will have to say... If you liked THAT link from the RNC, look at this one: Republicans Defend Karl Rove From Partisan Attacks http://www.rnc.org/News/Read.asp Here's the actual Republican talking points. http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Ex "I'm laughing my ass off about this whole thing. Phred" -------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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Where's the yellow cake? It's in Niger.
I didn't "address" the rest of your points because they've already been addressed. The only one who did anything wrong was Wilson. As for the reason there are Republican points dealing with Wilson's credibility, it's because Wilson has no credibility. He lied about his wife getting him the assignment. He lied about the assignment being given to him by Cheney. He lied about what he was told in Niger during his eight day tea-sipping "investigation". He lied about seeing a report which didn't even come to light till eight months after his return from Niger and his verbal report to the CIA. Rove, on the other hand, did nothing other than warn a reporter that he'd better not place too much credence on whatever Wilson was telling him. That's it, that's all. Rove didn't "out" anyone, least of all Plame. How can you "out" someone who was already known by the Washington press corps to be a CIA employee? What Rove was doing was warning a reporter that if he didn't check things a bit more carefully he'd end up disseminating false information -- Wilson's fable -- to the American public. Phred
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Live to party,work to affordit. Registered: 10/03/04 Posts: 8,978 Loc: South Texas Last seen: 13 years, 1 month |
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President Bush could clear this up by appointing Rove to the Supreme Court.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Prince of Bugs ![]() Registered: 10/08/02 Posts: 44,175 Last seen: 6 months, 28 days |
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Quote: So if your wife was a CIA operative, you would tell everyone who asked that she sent you on some mission to Africa? I don't find fault in him lying to keep his wife's identity secret.
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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I found the following at http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_07_10-2005_07_16.shtml and I've copied out a lot of it for your convenience. The red sections are hotlinks to the sources referred to. I'm not going to spend all morning making those hotlinks active. Those interested in checking them are invited to go to the article linked above and click on as many links as they please.
*************************************** JOSEPH WILSON TO APPEAR THURSDAY MORNING ON TODAY SHOW.-- I see that Joseph Wilson is going to be interviewed on NBC?s TODAY show on Thursday morning. Given our adversarial press, this should be a wonderful opportunity for NBC reporters to get to the bottom of things. I would hope that they would ask Wilson questions about his complicity in his wife?s outing. If Wilson hadn?t lied to the press or the public about what he found in Niger, about how he was hired to go to Niger, and about the Italian forged document, then there would have been no reason for people to try to correct the misimpressions he created and the lies he told. As the Washington Post reported: ?According to the former Niger mining minister, Wilson told his CIA contacts, Iraq tried to buy 400 tons of uranium in 1998.? So Wilson had found evidence that tended to confirm the substance of the sentence in Bush?s 2003 State of the Union address: ?The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.? The bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee 2004 report exposed Wilson?s lies on what he found and told the CIA, as well as the one about how Wilson was hired. Wilson said that his wife Valerie Plame had nothing to do with his being hired: ?Valerie had nothing to do with the matter." "She definitely had not proposed that I make the trip." But the 2004 Senate Intelligence report said that she first suggested him for the trip and then followed up with a memo touting his suitability for the mission. It would be great if NBC TODAY would probe Wilson on these matters. The Wall Street Journal says that Wilson had started lying to the press and public about how he was hired before his wife was outed, in part by Rove. Correcting this lie (were Plame not a covert agent) not only would be a smart partisan thing to do, but it would be the right thing to do. Wilson was publicly lying about what he found in Niger, publicly lying about what he reported to the CIA, and (according to the WSJ) publicly lying about how he was hired. Except for the ?covert agent? issue, it would be right to correct all these lies. Indeed, reporter Cooper?s email reveals that Rove was offering a ?big warning? ?not to get too far out on Wilson,? a warning that the press should have heeded but didn?t. They believed Wilson, only to find out that his account was untrue. But it appears probable, though not certain, that Plame was a covert agent (the statutory definition turns on whether she was on undercover missions outside the US in the 5 years before the disclosure of her identity, a factual issue that for some reason few outside of Powerline have focused on). The other reason that Plame may not have been a covert agent is that, according to bloggers quoting Andrea Mitchell, who was involved in NBC?s early stories on Wilson, it was widely known that Wilson?s wife worked for the CIA. Yet if Plame was a ?covert agent,? it would not be right or justified for Rove to expose Plame?s identity. Here it would be good to ask Wilson whether he thought that by lying about what he found in Niger and what he told the CIA and how he was selected, he was gambling with his wife?s safety. How could he be sure that people would know that Plame was a covert agent, or that there was a law against revealing her identity? Perhaps someone might have reasonably believed that they were correcting misimpressions that Wilson himself had created. Did Wilson realize that he had put the Administration in something analogous to a Catch-22?: Wilson can lie about how he was hired but the Administration can?t correct his lie without outing his wife. Did Wilson consciously decide to gamble with his wife?s safety by lying in a way that would be hard for the Administration to correct? This is the line of questioning that I would most like NBC TODAY to explore (in a more respectful tone, of course). One of the revelations of the Time Magazine Cooper email is that it gives the context of Rove?s disclosure that Wilson was suggested by his wife. The context strongly suggests that it wasn?t retaliation, but rather it was part of a discussion trying to correct any misimpressions of how Wilson was hired to do the mission. According to the Cooper email, Rove discussed whether the Director of the CIA or Vice President Cheney had authorized the trip. So on the legal charge of intentional disclosure of Plame?s undercover identity, there is nothing in the Cooper email to suggest the sort of knowledge by Rove necessary to convict under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 (50 U.S.C. 421 et seq.). It punishes one who ?intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent's intelligence relationship to the United States . . .? It's not even clear (beyond a reasonable doubt, no less) that Rove knew Plame's name, knew that the information that he disclosed identified her, or knew that the US was taking affirmative steps to conceal her relationship to the intelligence community (if it was indeed doing so). Of course, other evidence might be offered to show that Rove knew that he was contributing to the outing of an undercover CIA agent, rather than just explaining the context of the hiring of Wilson; but the Cooper email certainly doesn?t help the prosecutors in proving intent. The intent standard on this charge is particularly high, and will be hard for prosecutors to meet. For this reason, the country?s three leading newspapers?the Wall Street Journal, the NY Times, and the Washington Post?have concluded that, by leaking, no crime was committed or they seriously doubt that any crime was committed. ************************************ There's more at the link, but the excerpts above cover pretty thoroughly the gist of the situation -- Wilson lied repeatedly about everything from how he got the assignment to what he discovered to what he reported and to whom he reported. No one cares how he got the assignment. I certainly don't. I don't care if it was his wife who recommended him or if they picked his name out of a hat. What I care about is that he botched the assignment from the get go and deliberately misrepresented the little information he did receive in a partisan attempt to damage the president. Phred
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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Quote: If she were a covert operative? No, I wouldn't. I'd just say I was sent by the government. If pressed further, I'd say I was sent by the CIA. I wouldn't say I was sent by Cheney. But that's just me. I have a different way of doing things than Joe Wilson does. Phred
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Prince of Bugs ![]() Registered: 10/08/02 Posts: 44,175 Last seen: 6 months, 28 days |
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Yeah, he did fuck up badly by lying about the things he saw while overseas, that's for damn sure.
I'm just really sketchy on the Rove-Cooper incident, but I'm not going to say he should be charged until anything else comes to the surface.
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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Ah ha. We have an update. From the same main link I provided above:
UPDATE: Well, something that looks like a Today Show transcript is up on MSNBC's website, and its dateline is "Today show[,] Updated: 8:24 a.m. ET July 14, 2005." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8568266/ The interview, conducted by Jamie Gangel, is an embarrassment. The hardest question asked is: "Your critics have said that this is partisan on your part, that you are part of a Democratic attempt to discredit Iraq policy." Frankly, the question of bias is relevant only AFTER one determines if someone is telling the truth. If what Joe Wilson said were true, it wouldn't matter that he was a Kerry supporter. The question of bias is meaningful only in trying to figure out WHY Wilson was wrong, not WHETHER Wilson was wrong. People often have partisan motives for doing the right thing or exposing lies--among other motives, such as the desire to be decent and honest. ******************************** Phred
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Live to party,work to affordit. Registered: 10/03/04 Posts: 8,978 Loc: South Texas Last seen: 13 years, 1 month |
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Joe Wilson's Top Ten Worst Inaccuracies And Misstatements
www.GOP.COM | 7/14/05 | GOP.COM Thursday, July 14, 2005 Joe Wilson's Top Ten Worst Inaccuracies And Misstatements 1.) Wilson Insisted That The Vice President?s Office Sent Him To Niger: Wilson Said He Traveled To Niger At CIA Request To Help Provide Response To Vice President?s Office. ?In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney?s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. ? The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president?s office.? (Joseph C. Wilson, Op-Ed, ?What I Didn?t Find In Africa,? The New York Times, 7/6/03) Joe Wilson: ?[W]hat They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libby?s Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself ...? (CNN?s ?Late Edition,? 8/3/03) Vice President Cheney: ?I Don?t Know Joe Wilson. I?ve Never Met Joe Wilson. ? And Joe Wilson - I Don?t [Know] Who Sent Joe Wilson. He Never Submitted A Report That I Ever Saw When He Came Back.? (NBC?s ?Meet The Press,? 9/14/03) CIA Director George Tenet: ?In An Effort To Inquire About Certain Reports Involving Niger, CIA?s Counter-Proliferation Experts, On Their Own Initiative, Asked An Individual With Ties To The Region To Make A Visit To See What He Could Learn.? (Central Intelligence Agency, ?Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,? Press Release, 7/11/03) 2.) Wilson Claimed The Vice President And Other Senior White House Officials Were Briefed On His Niger Report: ?[Wilson] Believed That [His Report] Would Have Been Distributed To The White House And That The Vice President Received A Direct Response To His Question About The Possible Uranium Deal.? (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,? 7/7/04) The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Reported That The Vice President Was Not Briefed On Wilson?s Report. ?Conclusion 14. The Central Intelligence Agency should have told the Vice President and other senior policymakers that it had sent someone to Niger to look into the alleged Iraq-Niger uranium deal and it should have briefed the Vice President on the former ambassador?s findings.? (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,? 7/7/04) CIA Director George Tenet: ?Because This Report, In Our View, Did Not Resolve Whether Iraq Was Or Was Not Seeking Uranium From Abroad, It Was Given A Normal And Wide Distribution, But We Did Not Brief It To The President, Vice-President Or Other Senior Administration Officials.? (Central Intelligence Agency, ?Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,? Press Release, 7/11/03) 3.) Wilson Has Claimed His Niger Report Was Conclusive And Significant Wilson Claims His Trip Proved There Was Nothing To The Uranium ?Allegations.? ?I knew that [Dr. Rice] had fundamentally misstated the facts. In fact, she had lied about it. I had gone out and I had undertaken this study. I had come back and said that this was not feasible. ? This government knew that there was nothing to these allegations.? (NBC?s, ?Meet The Press,? 5/2/04) Officials Said Evidence In Wilson?s Niger Report Was ?Thin? And His ?Homework Was Shoddy.? (Michael Duffy, ?Leaking With A Vengeance,? Time, 10/13/03) Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: ?Conclusion 13. The Report On The Former Ambassador?s Trip To Niger, Disseminated In March 2002, Did Not Change Any Analysts? Assessments Of The Iraq-Niger Uranium Deal.? (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,? 7/7/04) ?For Most Analysts, The Information In The Report Lent More Credibility To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Report On The Uranium Deal, But State Department Bureau Of Intelligence And Research (INR) Analysts Believed That The Report Supported Their Assessments That Niger Was Unlikely To Be Willing Or Able To Sell Uranium.? (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,? 7/7/04) CIA Said Wilson?s Findings Did Not Resolve The Issue. ?Because [Wilson?s] report, in our view, did not resolve whether Iraq was or was not seeking uranium from abroad, it was given a normal and wide distribution, but we did not brief it to the president, vice president or other senior administration officials. We also had to consider that the former Nigerien officials knew that what they were saying would reach the U.S. government and that this might have influenced what they said.? (Central Intelligence Agency, ?Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,? Press Release 7/11/03) The Butler Report Claimed That The President?s State Of the Union Statement On Uranium From Africa, ?Was Well-Founded.? ?We conclude that, on the basis of the intelligence assessments at the time, covering both Niger and the Democratic Republic of Congo, the statements on Iraqi attempts to buy uranium from Africa in the Government?s dossier, and by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, were well-founded. By extension, we conclude also that the statement in President Bush?s State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that: ?The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.? was well-founded.? (The Rt. Hon. The Lord Butler Of Brockwell, ?Review Of Intelligence, On Weapons Of Mass Destruction,? 7/14/04) 4.) Wilson Denied His Wife Suggested He Travel To Niger In 2002: Wilson Claimed His Wife Did Not Suggest He Travel To Niger To Investigate Reports Of Uranium Deal; Instead, Wilson Claims It Came Out Of Meeting With CIA. CNN?s Wolf Blitzer: ?Among other things, you had always said, always maintained, still maintain your wife, Valerie Plame, a CIA officer, had nothing to do with the decision to send to you Niger to inspect reports that uranium might be sold from Niger to Iraq. ? Did Valerie Plame, your wife, come up with the idea to send you to Niger?? Joe Wilson: ?No. My wife served as a conduit, as I put in my book. When her supervisors asked her to contact me for the purposes of coming into the CIA to discuss all the issues surrounding this allegation of Niger selling uranium to Iraq.? (CNN?s ?Late Edition,? 7/18/04) But Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Received Not Only Testimony But Actual Documentation Indicating Wilson?s Wife Proposed Him For Trip. ?Some CPD, [CIA Counterproliferation Division] officials could not recall how the office decided to contact the former ambassador, however, interviews and documents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD employee, suggested his name for the trip. The CPD reports officer told Committee staff that the former ambassador?s wife ?offered up his name? and a memorandum to the Deputy Chief of the CPD on February 12, 2002, from the former ambassador?s wife says, ?my husband has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.?? (Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,? U.S. Senate, 7/7/04) 5.) Wilson Has Claimed His 1999 Trip To Niger Was Not Suggested By His Wife: Wilson Claims CIA Thought To Ask Him To Make Trip Because He Had Previously Made Trip For Them In 1999, Not Because Of His Wife?s Suggestion. CNN?s Wolf Blitzer: ?Who first raised your name, then, based on what you know? Who came up with the idea to send you there?? Joe Wilson: ?The CIA knew my name from a trip, and it?s in the report, that I had taken in 1999 related to uranium activities but not related to Iraq. I had served for 23 years in government including as Bill Clinton?s Senior Director for African Affairs at the National Security Council. I had done a lot of work with the Niger government during a period punctuated by a military coup and a subsequent assassination of a president. So I knew all the people there.? (CNN?s ?Late Edition,? 7/18/04) In Fact, His Wife Suggested Him For 1999 Trip, As Well. ?The former ambassador had traveled previously to Niger on the CIA?s behalf ? The former ambassador was selected for the 1999 trip after his wife mentioned to her supervisors that her husband was planning a business trip to Niger in the near future and might be willing to use his contacts in the region ?? (Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,? U.S. Senate, 7/7/04) 6.) Wilson Claimed He Was A Victim Of A Partisan Smear Campaign Joe Wilson: ?Well, I Don?t Know. Obviously, There?s Been This Orchestrated Campaign, This Smear Campaign. I Happen To Think That It?s Because The RNC, The Republican National Committee?s Been Involved In This In A Big Way ?? CNN?s Wolf Blitzer: ?But They Weren?t Involved In The Senate Intelligence Committee Report.? Wilson: ?No, They Weren?t.? (CNN?s ?Late Edition,? 7/18/04) Senate Intelligence Committee Unanimously Concluded That Wilson?s Report ?Lent More Credibility? For Most Analysts ?To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Reports.? ?Conclusion 13. The report on the former ambassador?s trip to Niger, disseminated in March 2002, did not change any analysts? assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on the uranium deal, but the State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) analysts believed that the report supported their assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq.? (Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,? U.S. Senate, 7/7/04) Members Of The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence That Wrote The Unanimous ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq?: Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI) Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL) Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN) Sen. John Edwards (D-NC) Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS) Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) Sen. Mike DeWine (R-OH) Sen. Christopher Bond (R-MO) Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS) Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME) Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE) Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) Sen. John Warner (R-VA) (Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,? U.S. Senate, 7/7/04) 7.) A Month Before The Bob Novak And Matthew Cooper Articles Ever Came Out, Wilson Told The Washington Post That Previous Intelligence Reports About Niger Were Based On Forged Documents: In June Of 2003, Wilson Told The Washington Post ?The Niger Intelligence Was Based On Documents That Had Clearly Been Forged Because ?The Dates Were Wrong And The Names Were Wrong.?? (Susan Schmidt, ?Plame?s Input Is Cited On Niger Mission,? The Washington Post, 7/10/04) However, ?The [Senate Select Committee On Intelligence] Report ? Said Wilson Provided Misleading Information To The Washington Post Last June [12th, 2003].? (Susan Schmidt, ?Plame?s Input Is Cited On Niger Mission,? The Washington Post, 7/10/04) Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: ?The Former Ambassador Said That He May Have ?Misspoken? To The Reporter When He Said He Concluded The Documents Were ?Forged.?? (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,? 7/7/04) 8.) Wilson Claimed His Book Would Enrich Debate: NBC?s Katie Couric: ?What Do You Hope The Whole Point Of This Book Will Be? Joe Wilson: ?Well, I - I Hope, One, It Will Tell - It Tries To Tell An Interesting Story. Two, I Hope That It Enriches The Debate In A Year In Which We Are All Called Upon As Americans To Elect Our Leaders. And Three, ? That [It] Says That This Is A Great Democracy That Is Worthy Of Our Taking Our Responsibilities As Stewards Seriously.? (NBC?s ?Today Show,? 5/3/04) Wilson Admits In His Book That He Had Been Involved In ?A Little Literary Flair? When Talking To Reporters. ?[Wilson] wrote in his book, he told Committee staff that his assertion may have involved ?a little literary flair.?? (Matthew Continetti, ??A Little Literary Flair?? The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04) Wilson?s Book The Politics Of Truth: Inside The Lies That Put The White House On Trial And Betrayed My Wife?s CIA Identity Has Been Panned In Numerous Reviews For Its Inaccuracies: ?On Page One Of Chapter One, He Quotes NBC Talk Show Host Chris Matthews, Who Told Him That, After Mr. Wilson Chose To Go Public: ?Wilson?s Wife Is Fair Game.? Later, He Bases His List Of Suspect Leakers On Conversations With Members Of The News Media And A ?Source Close To The House Judiciary Committee.?? (Eli Lake, Op-Ed, ?Don?t Quit Your Day Job, Mr. Wilson,? New York Post, 5/4/04) ?For Example, When Asked How He ?Knew? That The Intelligence Community Had Rejected The Possibility Of A Niger-Iraq Uranium Deal, As He Wrote In His Book, He Told [Senate Intelligence] Committee Staff That His Assertion May Have Involved ?A Little Literary Flair.?? (Matthew Continetti, ??A Little Literary Flair,?? The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04) The Boston Globe: ?In Essence, Much Of Wilson?s Book Is An Attempt To Portray The Bush Administration As A Ministry Of Fear Whose Mission In Pursuing War In Iraq Required It To Proclaim A Lie As Truth.? (Michael D. Langan, Op-Ed, ??Truth? Makes Much Of Bush Controversy,? The Boston Globe, 5/4/04) Newsweek?s Evan Thomas Wrote In The Washington Post: ?[W]ilson?s Claims And Conclusions Are Either Long Hashed Over Or Based On What The Intelligence Business Describes As ?Rumint,? Or Rumor Intelligence.? (Evan Thomas, Op-Ed, ?Indecent Exposure,? The Washington Post, 5/16/04) 9.) Wilson Claimed The CIA Provided Him With Information Related To The Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction: ?The Former Ambassador Noted That His CIA Contacts Told Him There Were Documents Pertaining To The Alleged Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction And That The Source Of The Information Was The [Redacted] Intelligence Service.? (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,? 7/7/04) However, ?The DO [Director Of Operations At The CIA] Reports Officer Told Committee Staff That He Did Not Provide The Former Ambassador With Any Information About The Source Or Details ?? (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, ?Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community?s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,? 7/7/04) 10.) Wilson Claimed He Is A Non-Partisan ?Centrist?: Recently, Joe Wilson Refused To Admit He Is A Registered Democrat. NBC?s Jamie Gangel: ?You are a Democrat?? Joe Wilson: ?I exercise my rights as a citizen of this country to participate in the selection of my leaders and I am proud to do so. I did so in the election in 2000 by contributing not just to Al Gore's campaign, but also to the Bush-Cheney campaign.? (NBC?s ?Today Show,? 7/14/05) ?[Wilson] Insist[s] He Remained A Centrist At Heart.? (Scott Shane, ?Private Spy And Public Spouse Live At Center Of Leak Case,? The New York Times, 7/5/05) Joe Wilson Is A Registered Democrat. (District Of Columbia Voter Registrations, Accessed 7/14/05) Joseph Wilson Has Donated Over $8,000 To Democrats Including $2,000 To John Kerry For President In 2003, $1,000 To Hillary Clinton?s (D-NY) HILLPAC In 2002 And $3,000 To Al Gore In 1999. (The Center For Responsive Politics Website, www.opensecrets.org, Accessed 7/12/05) Wilson Endorsed John Kerry For President In October 2003 And Advised The Kerry Campaign. (David Tirrell-Wysocki, ?Former Ambassador Wilson Endorses Kerry In Presidential Race,? The Associated Press, 10/23/03) ?[Wilson] Admits ?It Will Be A Cold Day In Hell Before I Vote For A Republican, Even For Dog Catcher.?? (Scott Shane, ?Private Spy And Public Spouse Live At Center Of Leak Case,? The New York Times, 7/5/05) -------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Prince of Bugs ![]() Registered: 10/08/02 Posts: 44,175 Last seen: 6 months, 28 days |
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Is there knowledge as to why he would have lied about the uranium? That seems curious to me.
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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I can only speculate. My opinion is Wilson was trying to discredit Bush. I can think of no other reason. Maybe someone else can.
Phred
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Devil's Advocate Registered: 09/24/03 Posts: 22,518 Loc: Mod not God Last seen: 1 year, 9 months |
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n00b notice:
Wilson is STILL the topic of conversation... not Rove. This is getting old. -------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Religion=Rape Registered: 11/18/01 Posts: 1,280 Loc: Amerika |
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Rove isnt in the clear by any means. If you were listening to the republican spin machine I could see how you could think otherwise. Their argument is that he didnt leak her name. Its not about whether he leaked her name, he leaked her identity.
-------------------- ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey. There is such emotion in the distortion.
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Devil's Advocate Registered: 09/24/03 Posts: 22,518 Loc: Mod not God Last seen: 1 year, 9 months |
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I love how they call her Mrs. Plaime... she is known as Mrs. WILSON.
Here's the infamous Newsweek story... which the Repubs are defending against. Quote: Expect Matt Cooper from Time to write an article next week, about his grand jury appearance. -------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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Quote: That's because Rove did nothing wrong, while Wilson did. Wilson wrote in his book, The Politics of Truth, that he and his future wife both returned from overseas assignments in June 1997. Neither spouse, a reading of the book indicates, was again stationed overseas. They appear to have remained in Washington, D.C., where they married and became parents of twins. Those twins are now five years old. This meant that Plame would have been stationed in the U.S. for six years before Bob Novak published his column citing her two years ago. As USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-07-14-cia-wilson_x.htm notes: Quote: So Plame ceased to meet the definition of a covert agent a year before Rove had his conversation with the Time reporter. Unless, of course, Wilson was lying about the date she returned from overseas as well. Reviewing his track record on other matters, it's a possibility. Still, I imagine it wouldn't be very difficult for a prosecutor to find out the date of her return. The court would then have independent verification of that date -- they wouldn't have to rely on Wilson's statements. Phred
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Devil's Advocate Registered: 09/24/03 Posts: 22,518 Loc: Mod not God Last seen: 1 year, 9 months |
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This is an ongoing investigation.
![]() The grand jury's still out. p.s. The Press is PISSED. -------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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Of course the Press is pissed, duh. The vast majority of the MSM is anti-Bush and anti-Rove. They're pissed because they've got nothing to pin on Rove.
They're pissed because hundreds of blogs are demonstrating to the public quite clearly that the press can't keep their facts straight from one year to the next and possess less investigatory skills than Wilson. No one likes to make an ass of themselves in public. Too bad the press corps can't seem to prevent themselves from doing so on a regular basis. Phred
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... other than THAT, the jury's still out.



