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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 7 years, 20 days
Karl Rove CIA leak
    #4364612 - 07/02/05 11:54 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

So, there are rumors that Karl Rove outed Joseph Wilson's wife, an undercover CIA agent, and then lied about it under oath.
You can read a little about it here:
www.drudgereport.com

What do you think about this?
What'll happen to Karl Rove?
You may choose only one
Fucker's going to prison.
Guilty or not, there's no way he'll be convicted.
Karl Rove didn't do shit.
Karl Rove is a hero; Wilson's a traitor, and got off easy.
STAL


Votes accepted from (07/02/05 11:53 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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InvisibleGijith
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: phi1618]
    #4368923 - 07/04/05 10:26 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Rove should be banned from Burger King.

Kerry should have his ascots confiscated.

justice served


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


Edited by Gijith (07/12/05 08:37 AM)


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: Gijith]
    #4371841 - 07/05/05 12:13 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Bush's brain is going to be running the world from behind bars.


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: 1stimer]
    #4375940 - 07/06/05 03:58 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

The left keeps telling us the leaker was Karl Rove.
HA! If it was, these reporters would have sung like canaries.


Judge Orders Jail for N.Y. Times Reporter


http://www.freerepublic.com/^http://news...zkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer
1 minute ago



WASHINGTON - A federal judge on Wednesday jailed New York Times reporter Judith Miller for refusing to divulge her source to a grand jury investigating who in the Bush administration leaked an undercover CIA operative's name.

ADVERTISEMENT

"There is still a realistic possibility that confinement might cause her to testify," U.S. District Judge Thomas Hogan said of the showdown in a case that has seen both President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney interviewed by investigators.

Miller stood up, hugged her lawyer and was escorted from the courtroom.

Earlier, Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper, in an about-face, told Hogan that he would cooperate with a federal prosecutor's investigation into the leak of the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame. He said he would do so now because his source gave him specific authority to do so.

"Last night I hugged my son goodbye and told him it might be a long time before I see him again," Cooper said as he took the podium to address the court.

"I went to bed ready to accept the sanctions" for not testifying, Cooper said. But he told the judge that not long before his early afternoon appearance, he had received "in somewhat dramatic fashion" a direct personal communication from his source freeing him from his commitment to keep the source's identity secret.

As for Miller, unless she decides to talk, she will be held until the grand jury ends its work in October. The judge speculated that Miller's confinement might cause her source to give her a more specific waiver of confidentiality, as did Cooper's.

Cooper, talking to reporters afterward, called it "a sad time."

"My heart goes out to Judy. I told her as she left the court to stay strong," Cooper added. "I think this clearly points out the need for some kind of a national shield law. There is no federal shield law and that is why we find ourselves here today."

"Judy Miller made a commitment to her source and she's standing by it," New York Times executive editor Bill Keller told reporters.

Floyd Abrams, a prominent First Amendment lawyer who represented Miller, told reporters: "Judy is an honorable woman, adhering to the highest tradition of her profession and the highest tradition of humanity."

"Judy Miller has not been accused of a crime or convicted of a crime," Abrams said. "She has been held in civil contempt of court."

The prosecutor, U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald had responded in court to Miller's refusal to name her source by saying "we can't have 50,000 journalists" each making their own decision about whether to reveal sources.

"We cannot tolerate that," he said. "We are trying to get to the bottom of whether a crime was committed and by whom."

Another Miller attorney, Robert Bennett, said earlier that prosecutors traditionally have shown great respect for journalists and "have had the good judgment not to push these cases very often."

Hogan held the reporters in civil contempt of court in October, rejecting their argument that the First Amendment shielded them from revealing their sources. Last month the Supreme Court refused to intervene.

In court documents filed Tuesday, Fitzgerald urged Hogan to take the unusual step of jailing the reporters, saying that may be the only way to get them to talk.

"Journalists are not entitled to promise complete confidentiality ? no one in America is," Fitzgerald wrote.

Fitzgerald had disclosed Tuesday that a source of Cooper and Miller had waived confidentiality, giving the reporters permission to reveal where they got their information. The prosecutor did not identify the source, nor did he specify whether the source for each reporter was the same person.

Cooper said he had been told earlier that his source had signed a general waiver of confidentiality but that he did not trust such waivers because he thought they had been gained from executive branch employees under duress. He told the court that he needed not a general waiver but a specific waiver from his source, which he did not get until Wednesday.

"I received express personal consent" from the source, Cooper told the judge.

Hogan and Fitzgerald accepted Cooper's offer.

"That would purge you of contempt," Hogan said.

Prior to the hearing, Miller argued that it is imperative for reporters to honor their commitments to provide cover to sources who will only reveal important information if they are assured anonymity. Forcing reporters to renege on the pledge undercuts their ability to do their job, she said.

Last week, Time Inc., last week provided Fitzgerald with records, notes and e-mail traffic involving Cooper, who had argued that it was therefore no longer necessary for him to testify. Time also had been found in contempt and officials there said after losing appeals it had no choice but to turn over the information.

The case is seen as a key test of press freedom and many media groups have lined up behind the reporters. Thirty-one states and the District of Columbia have shield laws protecting reporters from having to identify their confidential sources.

Fitzgerald is investigating who in the administration leaked Plame's identity. Her name was disclosed in a column by Robert Novak days after her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, impugned part of President Bush's justification for invading Iraq.

Wilson was sent to Africa by the Bush administration to investigate an intelligence claim that Saddam Hussein may have purchased yellowcake uranium from Niger in the late 1990s for use in nuclear weapons. Wilson said he could not verify the claim and criticized the administration for manipulating the intelligence to "exaggerate the Iraqi threat."

Novak, whose column cited as sources two unidentified senior Bush administration officials, has refused to say whether he has testified before the grand jury or been subpoenaed. Novak has said he "will reveal all" after the matter is resolved and that it is wrong for the government to jail journalists.

Disclosure of an undercover intelligence officer's identity can be a federal crime if prosecutors can show the leak was intentional and the person who released that information knew of the officer's secret status.

Cooper spoke to White House deputy chief of staff Karl Rove after Wilson's public criticism of Bush and before Novak's column ran, according to Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, who denies that Rove leaked Plame's identity to anyone. Cooper's story mentioning Plame's name appeared after Novak's column. Miller did some reporting, but never wrote a story.

Among the witnesses Fitzgerald's investigators have questioned besides Bush and Cheney are Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis Libby; and former White House counsel Alberto Gonzales, who is now the attorney general.

Fitzgerald has said that his investigation is complete except for testimony from Cooper and Miller.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleGijith
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: phi1618]
    #4395133 - 07/12/05 08:43 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

33 (!) responses that made me want to punch Scott McClellan:

Monday's Press Briefing

:pottymouth:


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: phi1618]
    #4396193 - 07/12/05 04:33 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Rove and Bush are going to jail.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: 1stimer]
    #4396196 - 07/12/05 04:34 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

No they're not.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: Gijith]
    #4396443 - 07/12/05 05:51 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Gijith said:
33 (!) responses that made me want to punch Scott McClellan:

Monday's Press Briefing

:pottymouth:




Why?


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OfflineKalix
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Registered: 03/20/05
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4396465 - 07/12/05 05:58 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Didn't you hear him? He straight stonewalled, even though he was more than willing to say Rove had nothing to do with it 9 and again 6 months ago.. Well into the "investigation"

I get the feeling you don't mind being lied to by elected reps, Zappa...


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My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4396471 - 07/12/05 05:59 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

now if rove did leak this name after all, would u agreee needs to be prosecuted for perjury and treason?? or will your partisan politics even allow you to protect criminals


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #4396504 - 07/12/05 06:07 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

There is no indication Rove leaked a name. All he did was tell the reporter that Joseph Wilson's claims were bullshit -- which they were.



Phred


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #4396508 - 07/12/05 06:09 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, I heard it all and I still don't know what the screaming is about. Tell me precisely what lieing you think he is committing. And then tell me what law, precisely, that you think Rove violated and how. Thank you.


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InvisibleGijith
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4396701 - 07/12/05 06:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I've rarely seen a press secretary that I didn't hate. They're basically just spineless publicists who have a degree.

I really don't care about this whole issue that much. I mean it's an interesting story, but no matter what happens, Rove isn't going to be found guilty of anything. And, as far as I'm concerned, he can keep his job. If it turns out he did, in fact, leak sensitive information, maybe he should have his clearance revoked. Whatever.

What I care about is the White House's mouthpiece to the public (Imagine an insane society where a President actually took 2 hours a week to answer some questions himself) doing such a shitty job of dodging questions. There were many questions asked on Monday that can't possibly have any relevance to the 'ongoing criminal investigation':::

- Does the President stand by his pledge to fire anyone involved in the leak of a name of a CIA operative?

- I just want to know, is that still his position?

- Wait, wait -- so you're now saying that after you cleared Rove and the others from that podium, then the prosecutors asked you not to speak anymore, and since then, you haven't?

- Well, then the President commented on it nine months later. So was he not following the White House plan?

- After the investigation is completed, will you then be consistent with your word and the President's word that anybody who was involved would be let go?

- Does the President continue to have confidence in Mr. Rove?

- And understanding that Karl Rove was the architect of the President's win for the second term in the Oval Office, how important is Karl Rove to this administration currently?

- Who is Karl Rove as it relates to this administration?

- Now, are you concerned that in not setting the record straight today that this could undermine the credibility of the other things you say from the podium?

- Was the request made of you, or of whom in the White House?

Not one of these questions could have an answer that would be at all relevant Fitzgerald's investigation. Yet for every single one of them, McClellan either stated that someone in the investigation had directed the White House not to speak, or just referred to this direction. And this is less than a third of the questions asked on the subject during Monday's briefing. Even if they were directed not to speak (I'll be interested to see whether the White House can come up with a coherent time frame for when they were silenced), McClellan could have bothered to distinguish between what fit under this direction and what didn't.

This is what bothers me. I don't think the White House has to tell us anything. I wouldn't be nearly as annoyed/amused if McClellan had just stood up there and said 'No Comment' 33 times. Fine. That's just rational defense. But don't treat intelligent people as if they are 3 year olds dumb enough to believe that an investigator instructed them not to disclose how Rove 'relates to this administration.'

My habitual reading of the White House press briefings has just become a form of masochism. Every answer is just so prepackaged and insulting. I have to think that if we had a third party - libertarians, greens, fascists, communists, whoever - in office, we would sometimes get an answer that wasn't 100% predictable. I've been reading these things for about 3 years now. I've NEVER thought to myself 'wow, that was an interesting, thought provoking and important answer, fitting of the most powerful man in the free world.' It's just so pointless.


--------------------
what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: Gijith]
    #4396850 - 07/12/05 07:22 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Just who are the intelligent people you are referring to? The gang of reporters who keep asking the same question even though they have been told that he's not going to answer them? The idiot Helen Thomas? Rove didn't do anything wrong and Mclellan isn't going to coment on an ongoing investigation. That's it. Get over it. How about this, why is the NYTimes willing to let it's reporter to jail when they could reveal her source themselves. They know who it is, and the Supreme Court of the land has spoken and determined what he law is. There are no more findings of law to be done. Who spoke to Judith Miller? THAT should be the big question and he/she should definitely be determined. Everybody else revealed their sources, now the Times should. If they think that they are above the law maybe then everybody at the Times who knows who the source is should also spend a few days in casa de Rikers. That would tickle me to no end.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: Phred]
    #4396929 - 07/12/05 07:43 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

From http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/49903.htm

Scandal Implosion

John Podhoretz

July 12, 2005 -- I WROTE a column on Oct. 10, 2003, about the strange case of Joseph Wilson and Valerie Plame.

Wilson was the former ambassador sent by the CIA to investigate whether Saddam Hussein had sought to purchase uranium in Africa; Plame, his CIA agent wife.

In that column, I offered my speculation of what an administration official might have said to a journalist to explain just how Wilson ? a Clinton administration official ? got the assignment in the first place: "Administration official: 'We didn't send him there. Cheney's office asked CIA to get more information. CIA picked Wilson . . . Look, I hear his wife's in the CIA. He's got nothing to do. She wanted to throw him a bone.' "

Hate to say I told you so, but . . .

According to this week's Newsweek, Karl Rove said something very similar indeed to Time magazine's Matthew Cooper:

In the Cooper e-mails just surrendered by Time to the prosecutor looking into the Plame case, "Cooper wrote that Rove offered him a 'big warning' not to 'get too far out on Wilson.' Rove told Cooper that Wilson's trip had not been authorized by . . . CIA Director George Tenet . . . or Vice President Dick Cheney. Rather, 'it was, [Rove] said, Wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on WMD [weapons of mass destruction] issues who authorized the trip.' "

There's no mistaking the purpose of this conversation between Cooper and Rove. It wasn't intended to discredit, defame or injure Wilson's wife. It was intended to throw cold water on the import, seriousness and supposedly high level of Wilson's findings.

While some may differ on the fairness of discrediting Joseph Wilson, it sure isn't any kind of crime.

Rove was suggesting to Cooper that folks lower down in the CIA than its own director commandeered the process so that the husband of one of their own could get the gig. And the husband in question then went and misrepresented his findings to various journalists (The Washington Post's Walter Pincus and The New York Times's Nicholas Kristof) and then in his own now-famous Times op-ed.

This Rove-Cooper conversation discredits Wilson, not Plame. In fact, nothing we know so far was done either with the purpose of exposing or even the knowledge that these remarks would be exposing an undercover CIA operative.

But Plame's undercover status at the time was and is a little questionable in any case. How undercover could she have been when her name was published at the time as part of Joseph Wilson's own biography online (see cpsag.com/our_team/wilson.html)?

So if the offense wasn't against Plame, what of the offense against Wilson? There was no offense. As many of Joe Wilson's own hottest defenders would no doubt argue in relation to President Bush, exposing a liar is not only not a crime, it's a public service.

And Wilson lied. Repeatedly.

First off, Wilson long denied he was recommended for the job by his wife: "Valerie had nothing to do with the matter," he writes in his book. "She definitely had not proposed that I make the trip."

But the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence actually found the memo in which Valerie Plame recommended her husband for the job.

There were other lies as well. Wilson's own report was far from definitive in any way on the question of whether Iraq was seeking uranium from Niger ? thus giving the lie to his later bald claim that he came back insisting there was no link.

"The report on the former ambassador's [Wilson's] trip to Niger, disseminated in March 2002," said the Senate Select Committee, "did not change any analysts' assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on the uranium deal, but the State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) analysts believed that the report supported their assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq."

Thus, Rove was telling Cooper the truth. According to one of Cooper's e-mails, "not only the genesis of the trip is flawed an[d] suspect but so is the report. He [Rove] implied strongly there's still plenty to implicate Iraqi interest in acquiring uranium fro[m] Niger . . ."

A few days later, for reasons that remain unexplained, the United States said it could no longer stand by the claim in the 2003 State of the Union that Saddam was seeking uranium in Africa.

But that retraction of Bush's words remains hotly controversial. As a 2004 British inquiry chaired by Lord Butler put it: "We conclude that, on the basis of the intelligence assessments at the time, covering both Niger and the Democratic Republic of Congo, the statements on Iraqi attempts to buy uranium from Africa in the Government's dossier, and by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, were well-founded."

What isn't controversial is this: Karl Rove didn't "out" Valerie Plame as a CIA agent to intimidate Joe Wilson. He was dismissing Joe Wilson as a low-level has-been hack to whom nobody should pay attention. He was right then, and if he said it today, he'd still be right.

And if Valerie Plame wants to live a quiet spy life, she should stop having her picture taken by society photographers and stop getting stories written about her on the front page of the Times.

E-mail: podhoretz@nypost.com

*******************************

I could post a dozen links to articles with even more information than this. For example, before Robert Novak's column was ever printed it was common knowledge among the Washington press corps that Plame worked for the CIA. Andrea Mitchell admitted that (reluctantly) on an MSNBC broadcast when pressed on the point. How can Rove (who apparently didn't even know her name, just that she was married to Wilson) be said to have "outed" Plame? That's like accusing a Rolling Stone writer doing a retrospective on Elton John of "outing" him by noting he's gay. And of course there is no indication Plame comes anywhere close to fitting the definition of "undercover". She was just another analyst desk jockey in the CIA's WMD department. It's no crime to tell someone that so and so works for the CIA. It is a crime to knowingly blow the cover of an undercover agent. That's not what happened here by a long shot.

What's so hilarious about this latest scandalette is how assiduously the MSM avoids mentioning the real story here -- that Wilson lied repeatedly about just about every aspect of his "investigatory" trip. He lied in his book, he lied to journalists, he lied in his column in The Times. When the MSM was seizing on Wilson's "reports" to try to pooh-pooh the yellowcake story, it was front page news day after day. When it was discovered Wilson was bullshitting his ass off from the get-go, there was dead silence in the MSM.

I'm laughing my ass off about this whole thing.


Phred


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InvisibleGijith
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Registered: 12/04/03
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4396931 - 07/12/05 07:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'm not talking about Judith Miller or a bunch of reporters or Helen Thomas (who wasn't there) or whether or not Rove did anything.

What in the FUCK are you talking about? Read my post again, dude.

The intelligent people I'm referring to are any intelligent people who read or watched the briefing.


--------------------
what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: Phred]
    #4397772 - 07/12/05 11:37 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

a majority of the reporters were not accusing anyone of anything... they were simply asking "why all the secrecy, Now?"

if they can not back up their own statements, why should their statements be trusted?
you either do what you say you were gonna do (especially when the heat is on).. or you don't -- and you provide a pretty convincing argument as to why you changed your mind.


explain to me why political leaders should have freedom to do otherwise.


Edited by Grav (07/12/05 11:52 PM)


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: Grav]
    #4397781 - 07/12/05 11:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I have been leaning right quite a bit lately, but this was a major fuck-up by the administration.

Seeing McClellan (sp?) at that press release made me want to throttle him. He should just have sucked it up and admitted he was wrong before.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: Redstorm]
    #4397950 - 07/13/05 12:42 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

GATE! GATE! GATE! GATE!










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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: Park Avenue Playground - The Trip



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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
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Re: Karl Rove CIA leak [Re: Learyfan]
    #4398933 - 07/13/05 08:39 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

He should be sent to Gitmo.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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