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OfflineLibertarian
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Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 123
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines
    #4364401 - 07/02/05 10:26 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

This is too much big brother to me. Think about, we ar ein the age, where your cough medcine purchases will now be monitored. I don't just hold the anti-drug crusaders responsible, but everyone who votes democrat or republican (I have made the mistake in my past, but never again). Liberals are even backing the measures, in the name of the nanny-state.

Quote:

Under pressure from law-enforcement agencies and state governments, drug companies have begun reformulating popular cold medicines to prevent criminals from converting them into methamphetamine.



"This is the direction we're moving," said Elizabeth Assey, spokeswoman for the Consumer Healthcare Products Association in Washington, D.C., a lobbying organization for the cold medicine industry.

Pseudoephedrine, a main ingredient in a number of over-the-counter drugs such as Sudafed and Sinutab, can be extracted by boiling down cold medicines. Toxic chemicals are then used to turn the substance into meth.

More than a dozen states already have restricted access, either by allowing only pharmacies to sell drugs with pseudoephedrine or making retailers sell them from staffed counters. A May report by the Office of National Drug Control Policy found a 50 percent drop in the number of meth labs in Oklahoma and Oregon, two of the first states to enact such restrictions.

But law enforcement officials and others believe that reformulating the drugs can reduce the problem even more, by helping shut down the small labs operating nationwide.

Pfizer Inc., the manufacturer of Sudafed and other leading pseudoephedrine products, plans by January to reformulate up to half of them with phenylephrine.

Leiner Health Products, which supplies generic cold and allergy drugs to retail chains such as Costco, Target, Walgreens and Wal-Mart, began shipping new products containing phenylephrine in June.

McNeil Consumer & Specialty Pharmaceuticals, a division of Johnson & Johnson, also is considering reformulation of a variety of its products, along with other major manufacturers, including Wyeth and Schering-Plough.

And the world's largest producer of phenylephrine ? Boehringer-Ingelheim of Germany ? says it can boost production capacity for the substitute ingredient by enough so the entire U.S. supply of pseudoephedrine could be replaced by 2006.

The meth problem is particularly severe in the Midwest, where rural areas provide cover for the pungent chemical odor from meth labs. In Missouri, law enforcement officers seized more than 2,700 meth labs last year ? more than any other state.

"It's such a drain," said Mark Woodward, spokesman for the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics. He said meth abuse forces law enforcement to spend millions of dollars on toxic cleanup, prisons and increased caseloads in courts.

But pharmaceutical companies are moving cautiously to make sure substitutes are effective, and to await proposed federal legislation that could affect how they reformulate some of their products, said Assey, of the Consumer Healthcare Products Association.

"It's the first step in a long process, from an industry standpoint," she said.

The meth problem has been a growing scourge in recent years. The National Clandestine Laboratory Seizure System, which collects data from state police agencies, shows the reported meth lab seizures increased from 6,777 in 1999 to 10,182 in 2003.

About 12.3 million Americans ages 12 and older reported trying methamphetamine at least once, according to the 2003 National Survey on Drug Use and Health.

The epidemic has generated plenty of interest in phenylephrine because it's one of the best and easiest substitutes for pseudoephedrine.

Phenylephrine differs from pseudoephedrine by a single pair of oxygen and hydrogen atoms, a tiny but important difference that makes it virtually impossible to transform phenylephrine into methamphetamine.

"Structurally, when just looking at the chemistry, they are very, very similar," said Kate Farthing, an Oregon Health & Science University pharmacist.

But if cooks at illegal labs try to convert phenylephrine into methamphetamine, they get only a useless variation, Farthing said.

Still, the cold medicine industry worries that reformulating remedies containing a combination of pseudoephedrine and some other ingredient, such as ibuprofen, would require U.S. Food and Drug Administration approval that could take three to five years.

The concern is being addressed in federal legislation proposed by Sen. Dianne Feinstein (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif., and Sen. Jim Talent (news, bio, voting record), R-Mo.

Under the bill, consumers would have to show a photo ID, sign a log, and be limited to 7.5 grams ? or about 250 30-milligram pills ? in a 30-day period. Computer tracking would prevent customers from exceeding the limit at other stores.

The latest draft of the bill, sent to the Senate Judiciary Committee this week, also would expedite FDA approval of reformulated drugs.

Scott Gerber, spokesman for Feinstein, said the proposal would ensure consumer access to cold remedies while targeting small illegal labs run by "people who are brewing up large batches of meth in their basements, cars, motel rooms and making it for their personal use or selling it."




Edited by Libertarian (07/02/05 10:31 PM)


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OfflineBCBudJohn
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Registered: 06/27/05
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Re: Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines [Re: Libertarian]
    #4364421 - 07/02/05 10:34 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

This is a good idea. Meth is easily the most heanous drug on this earth.


--------------------
Peace
John


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OfflineLibertarian
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Re: Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines [Re: BCBudJohn]
    #4364435 - 07/02/05 10:40 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

So it is a good idea to sacrifice liberty, because you don't like it and find it bad? That is one of the driving concepts behind the war on drugs. I'm assuming by your name you might be soft on pot and shrooms, the way the right-wing is on toabcco and alcohol, which by the way causes hundreds of thousands of deaths a year, and we saw what trying to outlaw alcohol did, all this will do is inflate the price of meth, driving people to even more insane acts. I agree with you, meth is disgusting, but I love liberty, and if a citizen wants to pump himself full of it, so be it, his body, his liberty.


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OfflineBCBudJohn
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Re: Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines [Re: Libertarian]
    #4364532 - 07/02/05 11:17 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Meth has become a huge problem where I live. They say 1 in 7 highschoolers have tried it. My sister was addicted to it for years and i know personally perfectly good kids who have thrown there lives away at age 13-14. I agree to a point, however, i believe that bad drugs that have enormous social problems that need to be addressed appropriately.

I believe that their should be controls on a drug like this, however, a different approach and attitude should be taken when doing it. Harm reduction in particular, as well as education and public awareness programs on addiction and mental illness at a young age.

Everyone pays for meth addicts. Especially when you have a publicly funded medical system like we do in canada. It simply puts everyone at risk by taking up hospital beds that could be better used. Theft and violence affects everybody as well.

Left unkempt and unregulated, the meth problem could escalate to become a social problem never seen possible (in my opinion). The nature of the drug is too dangerous and causes far more harm than the harm caused by denying access to this particular drug.

However, I do realise that prohibition does not work, so clearly there needs to be an alternative regulatory method, because i know too well the danger of this drug.


--------------------
Peace
John


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines [Re: BCBudJohn]
    #4364547 - 07/02/05 11:26 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BCBudJohn said:
This is a good idea. Meth is easily the most heanous drug on this earth.




The issue is too complex to fully address by one person, but the reason it's so complex is mostly because it's illegal. Dealers don't card their buyers, and many have no qualms to selling meth to a high school kid for quite a tidy profit. Were it legal, it would most likely be harder to acquire for these kids, because the "dealers" would then be law-abiding business owners who'd have nothing to gain and everything to lose from letting drugs like this fall into the hands of kids.

When you've created a situation where you are already taking away freedoms, like the criminalization of meth, the only way to continue it is to take away more freedoms. This is a perfect example of social Darwinism, where the government outlawed meth, so the traditional methods of legally making it died off while those who adapted and learned how to make it from common cold medicines rose to prominence. Now they will again restrict more freedoms, even changing cold medicines to stop the production of meth, and again the methods will die off and adapt. Most likely this means that more and more meth will be made in Mexico and smuggled here, which is good for some and bad for others.

The bottom line is that it's not worth it. Any gains we get from trying to stop meth are easily displaced by the harmful effects of the prohibition of it, and any attempt to stop the production and use of meth will simply be circumvented by the black market criminals who want a piece of the pie. And with meth, there's a lot of pie to be eaten.

Legalize methamphetamines today! :smirk:


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineBCBudJohn
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Re: Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines [Re: Ravus]
    #4364712 - 07/03/05 12:39 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I think that you're right on the money. I do agree and know that prohibition will fail, it is inevitable. I was thinking on a national stage, which unfortunately doesn't take into account the truth that mexico will simply become the base, in addition to adaptation. I also recognise the slowly but surely loss of freedom harm argument.

But, simply legalising methamphetamines would not cure the social problems and the pushers. Simply because drug dealers wouldn't exist (if that indeed were the result), does not mean that addicts that do not know any better or do not care anyhow (or are not thinking straight) from pushing drugs on friends.

Though, coupled with proper education about the drug early enough to have an impact may be enough to deter kids from trying it. (certainly more than jail time does).

This trend however, i believe would be offset (to an unknown degree) by the population of people who use harmful drugs regardless of well-known public knowledge.

Smoking is a perfect example. In canada, fierce government campaigns and education have brought the amount of smokers to an all time low, and has brought about a definate negative social stigma around it.

The question I suppose then is, would that number of people who use meth, which is infinetly more addictive and harmful, (which means that you may see a higher porportion of people who refuse to quit despite best efforts) cause more or less harm than under current prohibitionary laws, or under a proposed harm-reduction based prohibition, which would underline the need for an effective deterrant like education while still limiting the ability of those producing it.


--------------------
Peace
John


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InvisibleAbstractHarmonix
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Re: Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines [Re: Libertarian]
    #4364744 - 07/03/05 12:53 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Teenagers have been known to steal cold medicines just to get off, because they dont know where to find "the good shit", so in essence they are taking OD levels of OTC meds to "have a good time", what they dont realize, is exactly just how horrible that is for you.

Now this is Americas fault for making these meds so accessible to youth, to steal and to purchase, and to OD on.

When i went into Walmart a few weeks ago to look for a vicks inhaler, and i couldnt purchase one because they were taken off the shelves, i was a little ticked.  but then when i saw that the corisidan  (sp?) in display boxes and sold behind the counter, I was impressed.  that shit is dangerous, and the youth is misinformed...

:frown:  Its unfortuate....that kids are also still trippin off the NyQuil and Dramamine...

I wish they could find some good mushies, or some potent lucy.

They'll never need to have brain bleeds again, but to each his own.


--------------------
A plethora of music aspirations control my temptations of future revelations beyond "now". The percussion, and the heart beat of my love and devotion. The rhythm goes beyond, prying into the third eye, releasing the creativity held so far inside. The melodicies, through the out of tune pianos and broken classical guitars...there lies a beauty. A beauty as prevelent as the fire inside. To release these energies is pure ecstacy, to deveop these gifts is sacred. The vocality, so pure as can be, shying away from herself, lies within me. For the underlying serenitity, this is what I live for. I plea for harmony, and nothing more. Music equals love. Creation of love leads to the procreativity of the World, and it's spirals and puddles prevailing.


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InvisibleAbstractHarmonix
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Re: Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines [Re: AbstractHarmonix]
    #4364774 - 07/03/05 01:01 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Lol, that was a little off. Sorry. haha.

Anyways yeah, mmmm drugs er bad mmmk?


--------------------
A plethora of music aspirations control my temptations of future revelations beyond "now". The percussion, and the heart beat of my love and devotion. The rhythm goes beyond, prying into the third eye, releasing the creativity held so far inside. The melodicies, through the out of tune pianos and broken classical guitars...there lies a beauty. A beauty as prevelent as the fire inside. To release these energies is pure ecstacy, to deveop these gifts is sacred. The vocality, so pure as can be, shying away from herself, lies within me. For the underlying serenitity, this is what I live for. I plea for harmony, and nothing more. Music equals love. Creation of love leads to the procreativity of the World, and it's spirals and puddles prevailing.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines [Re: AbstractHarmonix]
    #4364795 - 07/03/05 01:07 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


They'll never need to have brain bleeds again, but to each his own.




:confused:

DXM isn't a bad drug anyway. The unsafe practices of using Coricidin are unfortunate, but it should be up to the private companies on how to deal with the abuse of both Coricidin and the use of pseudoephedrine to manufacture methamphetamine.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineAnisotropic
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Re: Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines [Re: Libertarian]
    #4365023 - 07/03/05 02:30 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

And they made it harder to get P2P witch is why people use over the counter stuff to make meth.

All they ended up doing was making meth more potent and more dirty. Becuase the P2P method only had about 50% of the active isomer.

The ephedrine method is more dirty because it has more steps with over the counter chemicals.

If people want to make amphetamines they will, they are simple to make as chemicals go. (This is why they sell them to every 8 year old in the country.)

They might just be more dirty now.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines [Re: Anisotropic]
    #4365904 - 07/03/05 10:47 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

People can always grow their own ephedrine or use a different precursor to synth meth.

This will have no impact on the fact that meth production is simple.

There are millions of different ways to construct amphetamines, as well!


The only reason a kid will try meth is because another kid can obtain it and make it sound cool. If the kids could obtain meth by going to their doctor, who, would explain truthfully the negative and positive effects, how long would it stay cool?


They will never win the war on drugs. So, instead they utilise it. The black money is already generated, ultimately, for shady branches of the government.


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OfflineBCBudJohn
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Re: Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines [Re: Ego Death]
    #4366007 - 07/03/05 11:36 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I think i see the light now. Prohibition doesn't address the NEED for psychoactives.


--------------------
Peace
John


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OfflineAnisotropic
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Re: Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines [Re: Ego Death]
    #4366194 - 07/03/05 01:25 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"People can always grow their own ephedrine or use a different precursor to synth meth."

Yes but when they do you end up with more clandestine steps. Leaving more possablitys for polutents.

One of my friends got a script for meth, from some ultra liberal doctor. It's one of the only times I've done it recently, because I refuse to snort something that smells like fucking markers.

Dirty meth SUXXS


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines [Re: Libertarian]
    #4369295 - 07/04/05 01:43 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

lol, boiling the pills down to get ephedrine... as if.


--------------------


Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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Offlinevotelp2008
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Re: Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines [Re: SoopaX]
    #4495954 - 08/04/05 06:30 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Even if the government found some way to eliminate all pseudoephedrine from the face of the earth, organized crime groups would hire people with experience in chemistry to make bulk amounts of methamphetamine using other methods (there are about 10 or 20 ways to make meth using no watched chemicals at all). This will result in the meth trade being 100% dominated by organized crime, instead of it having competition from small-time pseudoephedrine labs that are usually either for personal use or distributing to friends. Which do you prefer?


--------------------


"...the primary reason to outlaw marihuana is its effect on the degenerate races."
-Harry Anslinger


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

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Re: Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines [Re: votelp2008]
    #4523594 - 08/11/05 09:10 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

So we make it more difficult (presumably) to make meth, meaning dealers charge more, meaning it starts costing more, meaning addicts have a harder time getting it, meaning addicts will therefore commit more crimes in order to obtain it.

What would happen if we completely eradicated meth? What would the addicts do? Popularity is just going to shift to something else. I'm not sure why meth is so popular but if you want to reduce harm, I don't think this is a good way of going about it.

Quote:

votelp2008 said:
Even if the government found some way to eliminate all pseudoephedrine from the face of the earth, organized crime groups would hire people with experience in chemistry to make bulk amounts of methamphetamine using other methods (there are about 10 or 20 ways to make meth using no watched chemicals at all). This will result in the meth trade being 100% dominated by organized crime, instead of it having competition from small-time pseudoephedrine labs that are usually either for personal use or distributing to friends. Which do you prefer?




I prefer organized crime. That way we can make harsher laws and persecute more people while solving absolutely nothing.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (08/11/05 09:12 PM)


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OfflineLSDempire
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Re: Drug Makers Reformulate OTC Cold Medicines [Re: leery11]
    #4593084 - 08/29/05 12:36 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

While the war on drugs continues to destroy us all.


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