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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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deep impact
    #4364141 - 07/02/05 08:41 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

so this thing is about to colide with the comet and collect information..


what if..

there was a comet going to earth, and top governments know about it and decide to sent a craft to redirect it or destroy it.
They probably would not tell anyone what they were doing to keep the peace. So the public would probably find out about a comet that has some chance to hit earth but would not be afraid because chances are small (or so they are toled to keep the peace)
The project is successfull, the comet is redirected, and public has been toled that the craft was just making photos, readings etc.

We would never know..


maybe right now they are doing it and we are being toled that it is just a project to learn more about comets


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: deep impact [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4364195 - 07/02/05 09:13 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Most new comets and asteroids are discovered by amateur astronomers, not the government.

Remember comet Shoemaker-Levy? Gene Shoemaker was an amateur astronomer friend of mine (he died in a car crash in 1997). Along with with the Shoemaker-Levy comet, he discovered several asteroids that cross Earth's orbit.

Amazingly, we spend billions killing people in Iraq, but there is currently no government funded project looking for Earth-threatening comets or asteroids. They're all found by amateurs.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (07/02/05 09:25 PM)


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Offlinefreddurgan
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Re: deep impact [Re: Diploid]
    #4364218 - 07/02/05 09:21 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah that's a good point. Thank god for the academic crowd or we wouldn't know shit about space.


--------------------
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http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


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Invisibleorechron
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Re: deep impact [Re: freddurgan]
    #4364336 - 07/02/05 10:01 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

If not for the academic crowd we wouldn't know shit about crap.

One thing that really fascinates me about this project is the math and physics involved. Absolutely mind-blowing.


--------------------
Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: deep impact [Re: Diploid]
    #4364496 - 07/02/05 11:06 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

yea, amateurs discover it, but amateours can not make such calculations to be 100% sure that something will hit us


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: deep impact [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4364606 - 07/02/05 11:52 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Sure they can. I calculate the position and timing of satellites every time I go out with my telescope.

In the case of satellites, NASA publishes the Keplerian elements, but for a comet or asteroid, all you need is the Right Ascension and Declination of the object on several successive nights. Then you use good 'ol Newton's equations to get the Keplerian elements of the orbit. From the elements, you can calculate the position of the object at any time in the past or future.

It's not at all complicated. The hardest part is making the measurements of the position of the object.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: deep impact [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4364840 - 07/03/05 01:21 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

What if we hit it for true scientific reasons, but we redirect it onto a collision course with Earth? That would be funny.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: deep impact [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4365758 - 07/03/05 09:44 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

:grin: yea


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: deep impact [Re: Diploid]
    #4365761 - 07/03/05 09:45 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

well anyway, if this goes well NASA has shown that they can come close to an asteroid and touch it, which means they could save us from any asteroid that is discovered in time


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineDroz
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Re: deep impact [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4368721 - 07/04/05 07:49 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

There will be many that will come, we are preparing for it.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: deep impact [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4368730 - 07/04/05 08:08 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

which means they could save us from any asteroid that is discovered in time

If by 'save us', you mean hit something the size of manhattan island with a washing machine sized lump, then yes, they proved they could save us.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: deep impact [Re: Phluck]
    #4368824 - 07/04/05 09:17 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

This is just an example of physics and geometry that they are capable of, replace this with a bigger probe, load it with a warhead or something, and you can destroy any threat in time.
We certainly knew how to destroy a city as big as Hiroshima, right now we can destroy entire new-york, it would be stupid not to use this "power" (or flaw) to save our asses.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: deep impact [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4368924 - 07/04/05 10:27 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

The trick is discovering the threat in time to protect ourselves. If an object is discovered a few days before impact, I doubt we'd be able to do much about it.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: deep impact [Re: Diploid]
    #4369100 - 07/04/05 12:23 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Yea, but we are one step closer to 100% safety from asteroids:
NASA has shown that the only problem now is time of discovery.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: deep impact [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4369281 - 07/04/05 01:38 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"This is just an example of physics and geometry that they are capable of, replace this with a bigger probe, load it with a warhead or something, and you can destroy any threat in time."

This does demonstrate that we could deflect a comet or asteroid if we choose...and if we notice it in time.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: deep impact [Re: Diploid]
    #4369290 - 07/04/05 01:42 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Amazingly, we spend billions killing people in Iraq, but there is currently no government funded project looking for Earth-threatening comets or asteroids. They're all found by amateurs.



I imagine it's probably because there are so many amateurs watching the sky that the government doesn't bother with such a project.


--------------------


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: deep impact [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4369535 - 07/04/05 03:32 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

We certainly knew how to destroy a city as big as Hiroshima, right now we can destroy entire new-york, it would be stupid not to use this "power" (or flaw) to save our asses.

Keep in mind that when we "destroyed" Hiroshima, we didn't blow up a chunk of land the size of Hiroshima, rather we killed out most of the life on an area the size of Hiroshima.

Big difference.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: deep impact [Re: Phluck]
    #4369611 - 07/04/05 04:11 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Let's say you are heading for a meeting point with a comet, the point is 2 mil kilometers away from earth, and the comet is traveling on a straight line, that's like two days of fast space travel (around 50 000 kph)
And let's say the comet is going straight for us.
If you changed its course by 1 degree, by the time it reaches earth, it would miss us by about 35000km, which is more than 5 times larger than earths radius. Take away one radius for distance from center to horizon of earth itself

I remember that some comets passed at around 100 000 km from earth.
If all you have is enough power to change course by 1 degree, then all you have to do is intercept the comet at about 6 million kilometers in order to make it miss earth by 100 000 km. If you travel at 50 000 kph, you would reach the meeting point in 5 days


this is all simplified because comet does not travel on a straight line


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (07/04/05 04:13 PM)


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: deep impact [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4369664 - 07/04/05 04:40 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I agree that out ability to reach out and touch a comet is impressive. It can only assist us in the future if/when we find the one that is headed for earth.

I'm sure that we couldn't destroy an incoming asteroid or comet but could easily change its course.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: deep impact [Re: niteowl]
    #4370039 - 07/04/05 07:33 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I just overheard on TV that the distance was more than 100 millions km (120 and something) which means
that if it was going straight for earth, we would need to change its course by only 2 minutes (1/30 of one angle) in order for it to miss earth by 70 000 km , minus one radius, that is about 63 000 km above surface of earth.

Surely we can do something to move its course by 2 minutes


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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