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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Perspective
    #4362615 - 07/02/05 11:07 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

The Earth is 5 billion years old give or take a day. The universe is at least twice that.

One billion years ago, the highest form of life on Earth were worms. If some other creatures in the universe are only 20% older than we are (that's 1 billion years) then we are to them what worms are to us.

What do you think about that?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4362621 - 07/02/05 11:09 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I hope they don't like bait fishing. :shocked:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4362633 - 07/02/05 11:17 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

if there are creatures that see us as worms, then why is it unlikely that they could travel anywhere in the galaxy? For every phisical rule there is a way to take advantage of it. Every limitation is calling to be broken.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Perspective [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4362643 - 07/02/05 11:21 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

then why is it unlikely that they could travel anywhere in the galaxy?

Who said this was unlikely?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4362648 - 07/02/05 11:24 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

It comes up everytime as an argument against aliens


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Perspective [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4362668 - 07/02/05 11:37 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Nope.

I repeat this and repeat this and still nobody gets it.

I am all but certain there IS other life in the universe. I am all but certain that much of it IS far more technologically advanced than we are. However, there is not one shred of evidence of that life visiting Earth.

If they were interested in worms (us) then there are billions of planets with worms like us on them to study. The odds of them picking ours is like the odds of a human biologist picking one particular worm nest in Hoe Dunk Idaho behind Billy-Bob's old pick up truck out of the billions of other worm nests on Earth. It's like winning the lottery, only billions of times less likely.

So, let me summarize it once more: I DO believe there are aliens in the universe, I just don't believe they are visiting Earth; and until someone provides me with a bacteria that has no DNA, or a material that is beyond human technology, or introduces me to ET, I won't believe it. Fuzzy pics and stories of abduction made up by bored house wives are not good enough.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4362698 - 07/02/05 11:58 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I get you Diploid and I agree with your ascessment of this.

IF intelligent life outside of ours was in the area, we would warrant no more than a passing glance. If I were to look at some pond water in a microscope and see all the little creatures, I would find it interesting for about a half hour, and I don't think I would try to talk to them. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4362827 - 07/02/05 12:57 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Nope.

I repeat this and repeat this and still nobody gets it.

I am all but certain there IS other life in the universe. I am all but certain that much of it IS far more technologically advanced than we are. However, there is not one shred of evidence of that life visiting Earth.

If they were interested in worms (us) then there are billions of planets with worms like us on them to study. The odds of them picking ours is like the odds of a human biologist picking one particular worm nest in Hoe Dunk Idaho behind Billy-Bob's old pick up truck out of the billions of other worm nests on Earth. It's like winning the lottery, only billions of times less likely.

So, let me summarize it once more: I DO believe there are aliens in the universe, I just don't believe they are visiting Earth; and until someone provides me with a bacteria that has no DNA, or a material that is beyond human technology, or introduces me to ET, I won't believe it. Fuzzy pics and stories of abduction made up by bored house wives are not good enough.





ok, then, that makes sense


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4363329 - 07/02/05 04:31 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

"What do you think about that?"

I would try to prove you wrong, but you would just worm your way out of it... :wink:


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Perspective [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4363368 - 07/02/05 04:43 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I do not worm, I wiggle!  :tongue:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Perspective [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4363672 - 07/02/05 06:15 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
"What do you think about that?"

I would try to prove you wrong, but you would just worm your way out of it... :wink:




:grin: that's exactly what i was thinking

but then i realized that this..

"If some other creatures in the universe are only 20% older than we are (that's 1 billion years) then we are to them what worms are to us."

doesn't make much sense.

Diploid, when you say "we", you mean the human species right?
And 20 % older than the human species would mean exactly 2.5 million older than us.

I don't think that gives enough time for these "creatures" to have as huge as a difference with us than than with the difference that we have with worms.

hehe, its going to be fun watching you try to wiggle out of that one  :wink:


--------------------


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Perspective [Re: Icelander]
    #4363702 - 07/02/05 06:25 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

"I hope they don't like bait fishing."

I am sure such an advanced race would be a fly fishing only race...dry flys, of course.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibleorechron
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Re: Perspective [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4363710 - 07/02/05 06:28 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

With ultra-light leaders, just to make you think you have a chance.


This post is making me wish I had more smoked trout...


--------------------
Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Perspective [Re: orechron]
    #4363720 - 07/02/05 06:31 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I use 2 lb. I don't eat fish though (it tastes bad)...I am catch and release mostly. I often make gifts of trout to friends who enjoy it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Perspective [Re: exclusive58]
    #4363741 - 07/02/05 06:37 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Diploid, when you say "we", you mean the human species right?

No, I mean life on Earth. I could have worded that better.

Our sun, at 5 billion years, is middle-aged. There are also very young and already-dead stars in the universe.

Remember my thread "Beautiful And Humbling":

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4262525/an//page//vc/1

where it was shown that there are 50 billion billion or 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 other stars in the universe. It's a fair bet that at least a few of those stars with planets had civilizations when the Earth had only worms. :whoa:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Perspective [Re: orechron]
    #4363748 - 07/02/05 06:40 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

This post is making me wish I had more smoked...

This post is making me wish I had smoked more...  :rastamon:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
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Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4363795 - 07/02/05 06:56 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

well then, i'll take a shot at it.

if other beings have evolved 1 billion more years than ourelves, i would expect that the fact they have been living for that long shows that they have been able to cross the obstacles such as being able to get along, being peaceful, compassionate, and caring for one another.

i would expect that they have crossed the point where the well-being of their planet and their family, such as ourselves, comes before their own personal interests.

i would expect such beings to be the personnification of Love.


--------------------


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Perspective [Re: exclusive58]
    #4363871 - 07/02/05 07:26 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

i would expect that they have crossed the point where the well-being of their planet and their family, such as ourselves, comes before their own personal interests.

Or the exact opposite.

Not to be pessimistic, but there's no reason to believe they would be benevolent. It doesn't make sense to project our ideas of empathy and selflessness onto a race that could be drastically different from us. To them, the human concepts we take for granted may not even exist.

They may not even have emotions. They may function on a strictly 'survival of the fittest' theme. This is arguably a more efficient method of advancing the success of the species than our own.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisibleorechron
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Registered: 05/21/05
Posts: 299
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Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4363890 - 07/02/05 07:30 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

The three houses would obviously be in a constant struggle for control of the spice trade.


--------------------
Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4363900 - 07/02/05 07:34 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

"but there's no reason to believe they would be benevolent. "

I think there is a reason to think they might be benovelent. Warfare and agression in this world has been a great hinderance to progress. It might be harder to move out into space if you were fighting everyone.

That doesn't mean that they would be benovolent, but it's a likely reason that they might be.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Perspective [Re: Icelander]
    #4363923 - 07/02/05 07:37 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Being benevolent does not always mean they would do what is best for us...it means they would do what they think is best for us. Being totally alien to us, this could be a bad thing.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Perspective [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4363945 - 07/02/05 07:41 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Well just have to hope for the best !  :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Perspective [Re: Icelander]
    #4363963 - 07/02/05 07:45 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

If they did what was best for the planet...they would extinguish the species....


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
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Re: Perspective [Re: orechron]
    #4363997 - 07/02/05 07:55 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

To them, the human concepts we take for granted may not even exist.

but the thing is that Love is not a human concept, its universal.


They may function on a strictly 'survival of the fittest' theme. This is arguably a more efficient method of advancing the success of the species than our own

i doubt that you could reasonably hypothesize that beings could maintain themselves in a"survival of the fittest" behavior.
for that to happen, there'd have to be constant change of species that are at the top of the food chain. that'd mean that each species would be as dumb as the other.

also, i came up with something one day, some kind of universal law, that on each planet where life has appeared and evolved, there can only be one species of conscious beings amongst all others that rise to the top and become intelligent and creative.. on our planet, it was the homo sapiens.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Perspective [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4364000 - 07/02/05 07:56 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

That assumes we know what is best for the planet.  She may not be greatly effected by our actions one way or the other in the long run.

But, if  the earth is a conscious being and we are but little brain cells or some part of the whole. Then we may be essential for the spiritual evolution of earth.

Ha! can you tell me what is true?  :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinemikeyboy
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Re: Perspective [Re: Icelander]
    #4364018 - 07/02/05 08:06 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Im not usually a follower of this section of the forums but i've been having a nosey round and its very interesting hearing all your views

The way you can express your views in a detailed and informative way its incredible. Your all very clever!  :smirk:

Just thaught id mention that


--------------------
LSD: Defrag for the brain


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Perspective [Re: mikeyboy]
    #4364020 - 07/02/05 08:09 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Yes thanks, Were all so very clever! :nut: :3stooges: :shrug: :chainsaw:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
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Re: Perspective [Re: Icelander]
    #4364042 - 07/02/05 08:14 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Warfare and agression in this world has been a great hinderance to progress.

Actually, the most rapid technological advances in our history came as a direct result of war.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Perspective [Re: exclusive58]
    #4364055 - 07/02/05 08:16 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

but the thing is that Love is not a human concept, its universal.

That's a presumptuous statement. You have no idea what an alien species may or may not feel. If they have no emotions, and this is perfectly plausible, then they would have no love, by definition.

i doubt that you could reasonably hypothesize that beings could maintain themselves in a"survival of the fittest" behavior.

Why not? I'm not talking about killing your work mate to get ahead, but they may be all about fierce competition rather than cooperation. In that sense, they would not hesitate to do everything permissible in their system to step on their competitors in order to reach the top of their social structure. How they would apply that philosophy to us is a matter of scary conjecture.

also, i came up with something one day, some kind of universal law

Something you came up with is as valid (or invalid) as everything else. Your Utopian view may be the way it is, or maybe not. There's no more reason to see things your way than there is to see it the pessimistic way.

Edit: added a bit that came to mind after the fact.  :grin:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (07/02/05 08:34 PM)


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
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Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4364063 - 07/02/05 08:19 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

That's a presumptuous statement

yes i know.


Edited by exclusive58 (07/02/05 08:30 PM)


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Perspective [Re: mikeyboy]
    #4364087 - 07/02/05 08:27 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Hehe, they love their children so much, that they feed baby-humans to them. Just like we prefer baby-cows, baby-pigs or baby-sheep.

I Could also think in the two directions. In one corner of the universe, the old dark evil empire accumulates more and more races into slavery and hierarchic power-networks, while in the other corner the ancient forces of the light fights for liberation and universal love.

Even, I think, if you let the 'unintelligent' lifeforms more time in their evolutionary development, it could be possible to have more different intelligent and conscious species on one planet. I think, even communication would be possible.
:mushroom2:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4364095 - 07/02/05 08:29 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

they may not feel emotional attachment, but any civilisation might have the concept of mercy and compassion.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Perspective [Re: exclusive58]
    #4364104 - 07/02/05 08:30 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

"but the thing is that Love is not a human concept, its universal."

I am afraid it is a human concept. Alien beings do not need to even posses emotions at all. This is the result of our evolution.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Perspective [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4364144 - 07/02/05 08:42 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Hehe, they love their children so much, that they feed baby-humans to them. Just like we prefer baby-cows, baby-pigs or baby-sheep.

Well, unless they're downright evil, I don't see them eating us. We are apart from livestock in that we have crossed some threshold where art, culture, music, language, and all the rest comes into play.

We eat cows only because the cows don't complain about it. They're not even smart enough to realize they're being led to slaughter; they just walk right up to the butcher in full sight of the previous cow now being dismembered before it.

Any creatures so advanced as those we're discussing would likely have less carnal methods of providing sustenance for themselves than killing and butchering animals...

That is unless they get off on hunting intelligent creatures for sport. :whoa:

[plays twilight zone theme quietly in the background]


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
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Re: Perspective [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4364148 - 07/02/05 08:43 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

same response to you


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
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Re: Perspective [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4364151 - 07/02/05 08:45 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

i think that, as i've been shown on a recent shroom trip, Love is the life force of this universe, it is like a continuously flowing consciousness that is everywhere. it is this life force which pushes us to survive, it is this life force that pushes us to evolve, to experience, to learn.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4364155 - 07/02/05 08:50 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

An optimistic thought occurs to me.

Any race as advanced as that which we're discussing likely long ago solved the problem of developing machines to handle all manual labor; they solved all problems of providing unlimited energy for those machines; and they solved all problems of feeding themselves. This almost follows necessarily if a race is advanced enough to exceed the speed of light. Given that, they'd have no reason to eat us or enslave us or otherwise mistreat us unless they're truly malevolent.

I tend to think that a malevolent race would self-limit how far their technology could progress by virtue of their aversion to cooperation. If this is so, then only benevolent races would ever stand any chance of reaching us.  :heart:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4364158 - 07/02/05 08:53 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

a reflex response when i hear about beings being a billion years older than humans is to say that these being are spiritually advanced and have evolved to higher realms of consciousness.

i'm not saying this is true, its just how i personally view this.

that being said, i would say that such beings have attained a stage of awareness in which they realize that they are deeply connected to us humans, that we are all spiritually bonded, and that helping humans is the same as helping themselves, since we are all one.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Perspective [Re: exclusive58]
    #4364160 - 07/02/05 08:54 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

i think that, as i've been shown on a recent shroom trip, Love is the life force of this universe

This is arbitrary.

Is there love involved when an animal in the wilderness injures itself and dies a slow, horribly painful death from sepsis over the course of several days?

There is nothing universal about love.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
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Registered: 05/07/04
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Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4364164 - 07/02/05 08:56 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Hehe, they love their children so much, that they feed baby-humans to them. Just like we prefer baby-cows, baby-pigs or baby-sheep.

Well, unless they're downright evil, I don't see them eating us. We are apart from livestock in that we have crossed some threshold where art, culture, music, language, and all the rest comes into play.

We eat cows only because the cows don't complain about it. They're not even smart enough to realize they're being led to slaughter; they just walk right up to the butcher in full sight of the previous cow now being dismembered before it.

Any creatures so advanced as those we're discussing would likely have less carnal methods of providing sustenance for themselves than killing and butchering animals...




Hehe, some say, there is some speciality in human flesh. Perhaps there is something in it, what the aliens need and is not possible to synthetisize ?
I just wanted to state, also someone has stated this too, that they could be very concerned and comforting to their own race, but be damaging to (for them) minor species. They could simply see us as so undeveloped and emotionless, that the onliest purpose out of humans is the profit of the aliens. We could seem 'unconscious' to them :smile:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Perspective [Re: exclusive58]
    #4364169 - 07/02/05 08:58 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

that being said, i would say that such beings have attained a stage of awareness in which they realize that they are deeply connected to us humans, that we are all spiritually bonded, and that helping humans is the same as helping themselves, since we are all one.

But this is entirely anthropomorphic and in no way necessarily applies to an alien.

Indeed, even here among humans we find Islamic extremist who blow themselves up in a crowd of people, including children, and believe as wholeheartedly as you do that their way is the correct way.

If such aliens exist among our own species, imagine what could exist out there in the cosmos?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (07/02/05 10:42 PM)


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
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Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4364219 - 07/02/05 09:21 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
that being said, i would say that such beings have attained a stage of awareness in which they realize that they are deeply connected to us humans, that we are all spiritually bonded, and that helping humans is the same as helping themselves, since we are all one.

But this is entirely anthropomorphic and in no way necessarily applies to an alien.




haha, if i was being anthropomorphic i'd be saying that these aliens would see us as potential enemies or opponents who would rather kill us than share the galaxy's ressources with us.


Quote:

Indeed, even here among humans we find Islamic extremist who blow themselves up in a crowd of people, including children, and believe as wholeheartedly as you do that their way is the correct way.




huh? i don't have a way, Truth is a pathless land, there is no correct way.. where did that come from?

Quote:

If such aliens exist among our own species, imagine what could exist our there in the cosmos?




Islamists are not aliens, they are humans like you and i.


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4364295 - 07/02/05 09:46 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe these worms had an ill fate, and died, cause they couldnt keep their society healthy enough to reach a level of technological innovation capable of finding intelligent life, and or travelling to a planet where that life is.

Out of all the possibilities, they are small, and they are large, what we do know is, is that we dont know... :rolleyes:


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OfflineGog
hapless andhappy

Registered: 04/25/03
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Re: Perspective [Re: Zero7a1]
    #4364331 - 07/02/05 09:58 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

The actions of criminals and violent deviants is a reflection of the dark and crumbling center of humanity. The basis of our connection, the Void, the nothingness which cannot be named, has been forgotten, and All has become merely a word. Thus, we treat criminals and the insane as if they are acting our of their own choice, due to our mechanistic ideas of separation, instead of realizing that they are responding to the greater flux of existence as we all do.

Indeed, all is one, and if you see it this way life makes exactly 0.1% more sense than it does with the mechanistic,
"individualistic", and "scientific" notion of separate entities converging on this plane of reality, while somehow emerging from it at the same time.


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Invisibleorechron
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Registered: 05/21/05
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Loc: Fallout Zone
Re: Perspective [Re: Gog]
    #4364366 - 07/02/05 10:13 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

One of the things brought up by this thread that I find particularly interesting is the idea of human morality relating to alien morality. Most people seem to have no problem projecting their own morality upon imagined aliens, seemingly as a self-comforting mechanism. This is contrary to the popular (at least here) idea that accepting and developing an understanding of other perspectives is a valuable tool for better understanding and refining your own. Diploid's point about suicide bombers seems unassailable to me. If we can see such a great degree of variation in the thoughts and beliefs of our own species, why would we not apply the lesson learned to our consideration of intelligences that are entirely foreign to us?


--------------------
Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
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Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4379041 - 07/07/05 09:27 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

After having thought about it a little more, i'd say that if intelligent beings have evolved for that long, they would perceive us the same way that we perceive babies: as clueless, confused people who act mechanically and who have a very limited perception and understanding of reality.

Indeed, i think that what we perceive of reality is only a small limited aspect of it. I'll even say that if we suddenly became aware of the true nature of reality, we would be feeling alot like the people that wake up to the 'real world' in "The Matrix".


--------------------


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Offlineravin0ff
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Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4382214 - 07/08/05 02:11 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

No evidence of aliens visiting our planet?

Do some research on crop circles, geometry, and the people that "admitted" to pulling the whole "crop circle hoax".

Do not blow this off without a second thought, really, take half an hour and do some research.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

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Re: Perspective [Re: ravin0ff]
    #4383872 - 07/08/05 02:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ravin0ff said:
No evidence of aliens visiting our planet?

Do some research on crop circles, geometry, and the people that "admitted" to pulling the whole "crop circle hoax".

Do not blow this off without a second thought, really, take half an hour and do some research.




danoEoboy? :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefutant462
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Re: Perspective [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4384494 - 07/08/05 06:11 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

First of all, I completely agree with diploid's observation on human emotions and the potential lacking of these in aliens. There is no proof that human emotions can be isomorphically translated to other species on earth, let alone those utterly foreign to our imaginations.

Another important point that I wanted to bring up is that there is no need for an alien race to be advanced or intelligent in the way we think of that being true for humans. It is entirely possible to think of an alien race as a 'Hive' of which all the members of which are stupid and perform actions based merely on chemical signals (or whatever method you want, it need not be an form intelligent communication however) which designate jobs to the different components of the hive.

This is similar to the way that ant colonies work, much study can be done on ants as a system. Army ants will sacrifice individual members to create "living bridges" of members of their colony who interlock legs and arms together to allow the rest of the colony to migrate to new areas. Assuming it is possible to develop a biological system of transportation through space, there is no reason to discount alien species whom have mastered space travel without having ever 'known' it on a individual member scale, but rather the hive as a whole worked together, somewhat unknowingly perhaps, to accomplish this goal. This would be an example of a strictly survival based species mentioned earlier, and if sustainable, this may indeed be a more effective alien race than one similar to ourselves, and while peaceful amongst themselves for the most part (other than sacrificing oneself for the greater good) there is no reason to assume they would be peaceful to anything they encountered

Someone had also mentioned something about moving faster than the speed of light. As far as we know, including theories of relativity, quantum mechanics, and even several other fringe theories, there is no evidence that this can be done, and it is indeed entirely possible,and actually quite probable that there is no possible way whatsoever to do this.


--------------------
"no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs; we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed, and love of power.?
-P.J. O'Rourke

What is a Quantum Particle?
The Dreams that stuff is made of!


Edited by futant462 (07/08/05 06:13 PM)


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

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Re: Perspective [Re: futant462]
    #4384732 - 07/08/05 07:47 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

futant462 said:

This is similar to the way that ant colonies work, much study can be done on ants as a system.  Army ants will sacrifice individual members to create "living bridges" of members of their colony who interlock legs and arms together to allow the rest of the colony to migrate to new areas.  Assuming it is possible to develop a biological system of transportation through space, there is no reason to discount alien species whom have mastered space travel without having ever 'known' it on a individual member scale, but rather the hive as a whole worked together, somewhat unknowingly perhaps, to accomplish this goal.  This would be an example of a strictly survival based species mentioned earlier, and if sustainable, this may indeed be a more effective alien race than one similar to ourselves, and while peaceful amongst themselves for the most part (other than sacrificing oneself for the greater good) there is no reason to assume they would be peaceful to anything they encountered






But were talking about a time period of 1 billion years. The way you are saying that aliens would evolve is by is by "unknowingly'/unconsciously developing techniques and technology,  for means of survival. And at the same time you're saying these species would potentially make sacrifices for the greater good. But didn't humans make sacrifices as well? That was relatively not long ago..Wouldn't it make sense that, had such beings survived as long as one billion years ago (or 1 million), they would have evolved just like we did. I mean, the way you're saying this makes it seem like you're talking about primitive aliens!

If there is one thing that doesn't change in the universe, it's that everything changes

:wink:


--------------------


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