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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Perspective
    #4362615 - 07/02/05 11:07 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The Earth is 5 billion years old give or take a day. The universe is at least twice that.

One billion years ago, the highest form of life on Earth were worms. If some other creatures in the universe are only 20% older than we are (that's 1 billion years) then we are to them what worms are to us.

What do you think about that?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4362621 - 07/02/05 11:09 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I hope they don't like bait fishing. :shocked:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4362633 - 07/02/05 11:17 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

if there are creatures that see us as worms, then why is it unlikely that they could travel anywhere in the galaxy? For every phisical rule there is a way to take advantage of it. Every limitation is calling to be broken.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Perspective [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4362643 - 07/02/05 11:21 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

then why is it unlikely that they could travel anywhere in the galaxy?

Who said this was unlikely?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4362648 - 07/02/05 11:24 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

It comes up everytime as an argument against aliens


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Perspective [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4362668 - 07/02/05 11:37 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Nope.

I repeat this and repeat this and still nobody gets it.

I am all but certain there IS other life in the universe. I am all but certain that much of it IS far more technologically advanced than we are. However, there is not one shred of evidence of that life visiting Earth.

If they were interested in worms (us) then there are billions of planets with worms like us on them to study. The odds of them picking ours is like the odds of a human biologist picking one particular worm nest in Hoe Dunk Idaho behind Billy-Bob's old pick up truck out of the billions of other worm nests on Earth. It's like winning the lottery, only billions of times less likely.

So, let me summarize it once more: I DO believe there are aliens in the universe, I just don't believe they are visiting Earth; and until someone provides me with a bacteria that has no DNA, or a material that is beyond human technology, or introduces me to ET, I won't believe it. Fuzzy pics and stories of abduction made up by bored house wives are not good enough.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4362698 - 07/02/05 11:58 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I get you Diploid and I agree with your ascessment of this.

IF intelligent life outside of ours was in the area, we would warrant no more than a passing glance. If I were to look at some pond water in a microscope and see all the little creatures, I would find it interesting for about a half hour, and I don't think I would try to talk to them. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4362827 - 07/02/05 12:57 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Nope.

I repeat this and repeat this and still nobody gets it.

I am all but certain there IS other life in the universe. I am all but certain that much of it IS far more technologically advanced than we are. However, there is not one shred of evidence of that life visiting Earth.

If they were interested in worms (us) then there are billions of planets with worms like us on them to study. The odds of them picking ours is like the odds of a human biologist picking one particular worm nest in Hoe Dunk Idaho behind Billy-Bob's old pick up truck out of the billions of other worm nests on Earth. It's like winning the lottery, only billions of times less likely.

So, let me summarize it once more: I DO believe there are aliens in the universe, I just don't believe they are visiting Earth; and until someone provides me with a bacteria that has no DNA, or a material that is beyond human technology, or introduces me to ET, I won't believe it. Fuzzy pics and stories of abduction made up by bored house wives are not good enough.





ok, then, that makes sense


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4363329 - 07/02/05 04:31 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

"What do you think about that?"

I would try to prove you wrong, but you would just worm your way out of it... :wink:


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Perspective [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4363368 - 07/02/05 04:43 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I do not worm, I wiggle!  :tongue:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Perspective [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4363672 - 07/02/05 06:15 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
"What do you think about that?"

I would try to prove you wrong, but you would just worm your way out of it... :wink:




:grin: that's exactly what i was thinking

but then i realized that this..

"If some other creatures in the universe are only 20% older than we are (that's 1 billion years) then we are to them what worms are to us."

doesn't make much sense.

Diploid, when you say "we", you mean the human species right?
And 20 % older than the human species would mean exactly 2.5 million older than us.

I don't think that gives enough time for these "creatures" to have as huge as a difference with us than than with the difference that we have with worms.

hehe, its going to be fun watching you try to wiggle out of that one  :wink:


--------------------


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
Re: Perspective [Re: Icelander]
    #4363702 - 07/02/05 06:25 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

"I hope they don't like bait fishing."

I am sure such an advanced race would be a fly fishing only race...dry flys, of course.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibleorechron
LIVEWRONG
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Registered: 05/21/05
Posts: 299
Loc: Fallout Zone
Re: Perspective [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4363710 - 07/02/05 06:28 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

With ultra-light leaders, just to make you think you have a chance.


This post is making me wish I had more smoked trout...


--------------------
Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
Re: Perspective [Re: orechron]
    #4363720 - 07/02/05 06:31 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I use 2 lb. I don't eat fish though (it tastes bad)...I am catch and release mostly. I often make gifts of trout to friends who enjoy it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Perspective [Re: exclusive58]
    #4363741 - 07/02/05 06:37 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Diploid, when you say "we", you mean the human species right?

No, I mean life on Earth. I could have worded that better.

Our sun, at 5 billion years, is middle-aged. There are also very young and already-dead stars in the universe.

Remember my thread "Beautiful And Humbling":

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4262525/an//page//vc/1

where it was shown that there are 50 billion billion or 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 other stars in the universe. It's a fair bet that at least a few of those stars with planets had civilizations when the Earth had only worms. :whoa:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Perspective [Re: orechron]
    #4363748 - 07/02/05 06:40 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

This post is making me wish I had more smoked...

This post is making me wish I had smoked more...  :rastamon:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4363795 - 07/02/05 06:56 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

well then, i'll take a shot at it.

if other beings have evolved 1 billion more years than ourelves, i would expect that the fact they have been living for that long shows that they have been able to cross the obstacles such as being able to get along, being peaceful, compassionate, and caring for one another.

i would expect that they have crossed the point where the well-being of their planet and their family, such as ourselves, comes before their own personal interests.

i would expect such beings to be the personnification of Love.


--------------------


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Perspective [Re: exclusive58]
    #4363871 - 07/02/05 07:26 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i would expect that they have crossed the point where the well-being of their planet and their family, such as ourselves, comes before their own personal interests.

Or the exact opposite.

Not to be pessimistic, but there's no reason to believe they would be benevolent. It doesn't make sense to project our ideas of empathy and selflessness onto a race that could be drastically different from us. To them, the human concepts we take for granted may not even exist.

They may not even have emotions. They may function on a strictly 'survival of the fittest' theme. This is arguably a more efficient method of advancing the success of the species than our own.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibleorechron
LIVEWRONG
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/21/05
Posts: 299
Loc: Fallout Zone
Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4363890 - 07/02/05 07:30 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The three houses would obviously be in a constant struggle for control of the spice trade.


--------------------
Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Perspective [Re: Diploid]
    #4363900 - 07/02/05 07:34 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

"but there's no reason to believe they would be benevolent. "

I think there is a reason to think they might be benovelent. Warfare and agression in this world has been a great hinderance to progress. It might be harder to move out into space if you were fighting everyone.

That doesn't mean that they would be benovolent, but it's a likely reason that they might be.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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