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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
JOY
    #4359650 - 07/01/05 01:07 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Leo Buscaglia said:
Ancient Egyptians believed that upon death they would be asked two questions and their answers would determine whether they could continue their journey in the afterlife. The first question was, "Did you bring joy?" The second was, "Did you find joy?"




JOY


1 a : the emotion evoked by well-being, success, or good fortune or by the prospect of possessing what one desires : DELIGHT
b : the expression or exhibition of such emotion : GAIETY
2 : a state of happiness or felicity : BLISS
3 : a source or cause of delight

It seems to me that many religious beliefs center on fear of a deity, devoting yourself through hard work/discipline, abstaining from physical pleasures ("sins"), in order to earn a reward.

Where is the joy in this approach?  How is it that pure joy is not considered spiritual?

It has been my experience that joy, and enjoyment, increase both my physical well-being AND my spiritual focus.  The more I open myself to being joyful, the more I am able to release neurotic attachments and offer true devotion and service to my loved ones.

I believe that joy is the emotional and physical experience of divinity.  The energy of joy is peaceful and powerful. 

What do you think about joy?

:heart: :heart:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: JOY [Re: Veritas]
    #4359683 - 07/01/05 01:22 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"I want more Joy fucker" :heart:  I took some liberties with a line from Bladerunner here. :grin:

YES! I agree! and am beginning to experience this in my life. When I first felt Joy/Bliss, I was amazed at how I didn't need to try and hold it but immediately wanted to share it with everyone. I felt the utmost empathy and connection for my world and its joyful and suffering creatures. I felt that we were all one and I wasn't better or more than anyone else. I just wanted to give. Joy is like that. :heart: :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: JOY [Re: Veritas]
    #4359688 - 07/01/05 01:23 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Are there pre-requisites for expirencing "joy" ?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: JOY [Re: psyka]
    #4359696 - 07/01/05 01:27 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Just being alive!

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Invisibledorkus
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: JOY *DELETED* [Re: Veritas]
    #4359719 - 07/01/05 01:35 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by dorkus

Reason for deletion: .

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: JOY [Re: dorkus]
    #4359785 - 07/01/05 01:49 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup: :heart: YES!


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibledorkus
Registered: 04/12/04
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Re: JOY *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #4359875 - 07/01/05 02:13 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by dorkus

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: JOY [Re: dorkus]
    #4359976 - 07/01/05 02:35 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Excellent!  :rotfl:

Laughter is my prayer, and humor sacred inpiration!!

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Invisiblemoog
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Re: JOY [Re: Veritas]
    #4359986 - 07/01/05 02:37 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Is joy different from happiness? I don't think I've ever experienced joy.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: JOY [Re: moog]
    #4360021 - 07/01/05 02:44 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

According to the dictionary definition, they are synonymous.

I distinguish between spiritual joy and happiness in that the former can exist regardless of circumstances, while the latter has more to do with having some thing/person/situation you want.

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Invisibledorkus
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Re: JOY *DELETED* [Re: Veritas]
    #4360056 - 07/01/05 02:49 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by dorkus

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Invisibledorkus
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Re: JOY *DELETED* [Re: dorkus]
    #4360064 - 07/01/05 02:50 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by dorkus

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: JOY [Re: dorkus]
    #4360108 - 07/01/05 02:59 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, I agree that joy is different. It is much more intense, and not centered on anything in particular. Happiness is quieter, and I don't feel it throughout my body, mostly just a warm sensation in my chest. Joy is a full-body, energizing, multi-layered experience.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: JOY [Re: Veritas]
    #4361276 - 07/01/05 09:05 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Joy is sublime! Joy is more important to me that mere happiness. Joy emanates from my Heart - it may go to my Head initially but as long as it retreats back to my Heart it sustains me in the middle of pain, distress, duress, grief and fear. It allows me to joke with my physician in the midst of a possible life-threatening condition. 'Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, thou art with me...' Joy.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: JOY [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4373022 - 07/05/05 05:26 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The first question was, "Did you bring joy?" The second was, "Did you find joy?"




How do you bring joy to your work, Markos? I have read the details in your previous posts, and it sounds like a challenging environment.

Do you think it is possible for us to bring joy to each other, or is that the work of the Divine?

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InvisibleFreedomFight
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Re: JOY [Re: Veritas]
    #4374076 - 07/05/05 10:50 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

Leo Buscaglia said:
It seems to me that many religious beliefs center on fear of a deity, devoting yourself through hard work/discipline, abstaining from physical pleasures ("sins"), in order to earn a reward.





Egyptians, aren't they the same people that had those slaves... oh yeah the Jews. Must be why the Egyptians came up with a religion that talks all about finding joy while the jews came up with a religion that talks about strict devotion and hard times...


--------------------
I do not grow anything illegal.
I do not sell anything.
I am, however, a very curious individual.
I also try to be helpful.

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Offlinelkfity315
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Re: JOY [Re: FreedomFight]
    #4374581 - 07/06/05 01:36 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

FreedomFight said:
Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

Leo Buscaglia said:
It seems to me that many religious beliefs center on fear of a deity, devoting yourself through hard work/discipline, abstaining from physical pleasures ("sins"), in order to earn a reward.




Egyptians, aren't they the same people that had those slaves... oh yeah the Jews. Must be why the Egyptians came up with a religion that talks all about finding joy while the jews came up with a religion that talks about strict devotion and hard times...




hahahahahahahaha makes alot of since


--------------------
"My advice to people today is as follows: If you take the game of life seriously, if you take your nervous system seriously, if you take your sense organs seriously, if you take the energy process seriously, you must turn on, tune in, and drop out. "
Timothy Leary

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OfflineGomp
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Re: JOY [Re: Veritas]
    #4375159 - 07/06/05 09:06 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"Joy is true sadness"
-Unknown :P


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: JOY [Re: FreedomFight]
    #4375206 - 07/06/05 09:37 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I suppose that you neither know anything about historical Judaism, nor do you know any practicing Jews, but simply have some stereotype engram in place instead of a thinking process.

BTW, despite the Book of Exodus, I have been told by world famous Egyptologist Dr. Bob Brier (a former prof of mine) that there is no evidence among Egyptian artifacts that establishes that the Hebrews were employed, en masse, as slaves. For sure, they had no part in pyramid building.

The dynasties of ancient Egypt are numerous and whereas the human experience of joy was variously identified as an attribute of different deities, there is none which stand out as specific personifications of Joy. The general focus was on the Life, Death and Resurrection in the Afterlife. As to hard laws, killing a common cat could result in the death penalty (as cats were sacred to Bast/Bastet, Sekmet). Moral training as elaborated by the Hebrews could also bring the death penalty (adultery, beastiality) but, it is at the bottom of our modern day ethics and morality, not cat-lovers.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: JOY [Re: Veritas]
    #4375235 - 07/06/05 09:55 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

On certain occasions, rare it is true, I have involved people who have experienced some kind of trauma in an interaction at the end of which the person paused and said: "I forgot why I was here talking with you!" In the midst of being empathic, the reality is that these people not only survived an incident, but in having gotten really into the moment through our discussion, they realized that in-that-moment...they were OK, fine, without pain. Only when they remembered why we were talking, when memory of the event returned to self-consciousness did the psychological pain resume.

The factor that I believe is responsible for lifting people out of their 'suffering cerebration' is a predominating presence of Joy that I keep aware of inwardly (the Heart Cave). It is communicated as a kind of 'infrastructure' that elevates and detaches us from the symptomatic pain. Focusing on the painful event doesn't help, and, it is past. Joy extricates the individual's consciousness to its clinging to the past which is painful. It is a 'skillful means' that I've learned from the East. I believe that Love resting in itself is Joy, when it motivates to help it becomes 'Compassion in Action.'


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineDroz
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Re: JOY [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4377181 - 07/06/05 06:51 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Joy. Mental programming. Programming emotions into people to make them act and do a certain thing. End Post.

War,
Droz


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: JOY [Re: Droz]
    #4377246 - 07/06/05 07:02 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Rough day?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineDroz
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Re: JOY [Re: Icelander]
    #4377334 - 07/06/05 07:29 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Rough, no it was an easy day.

I don't see such things as rough.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: JOY [Re: Droz]
    #4377875 - 07/06/05 10:12 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

How little you understand my intentionality. Very sorry.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleFreedomFight
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Re: JOY [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4378484 - 07/07/05 01:21 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry about my apparent lack of true Hebrew history knowledge Mark. I only know what they teach me.


--------------------
I do not grow anything illegal.
I do not sell anything.
I am, however, a very curious individual.
I also try to be helpful.

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OfflineMAIA
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Re: JOY [Re: Veritas]
    #4378833 - 07/07/05 04:34 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Joy is the exaltation of the soul. It is a divine experience :wink:

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: JOY [Re: MAIA]
    #4378884 - 07/07/05 05:22 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

some consider that it is just a side effect of absorption/intimacy
an important ingredient among life experiences, but not a goal as such, nor a resource or commodity.

joy arises spontaneously as a result of the mind becomming engrossed.
(this is separate from pleasure & pain which are discrete signals and associations).

joy can be noticed as vibration, shaking, light glowing, warm senstions, sounds, a general sense of well being, and in advanced cases as levitation or other sidhis (magick). (like a sympathetic vibration)

In buddhist meditation, one is cautioned against being attached to it or making it more important than the task that brings it up (i.e. mental absorption).

it emerges in natural life (i.e. without artificial 'meditations') all the time, note how gleeful a child can be when absorbed in some activities.

so for the egyptians:
did you bring joy? means:
did you get intimate with life to the point that joy ensued?
did you find joy? means:
did you notice joy comes from intimacy.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

Edited by redgreenvines (07/07/05 05:30 AM)

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: JOY [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4379228 - 07/07/05 09:42 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I like your perspective on this topic!

It sounds like you are referring to the state of flow, in which the attention is so fully given that one loses track of time, bodily sensations, and activities going on in your vicinity.

This flow state is powerful and beneficial to body and mind. 
Deepak Chopra has even theorized that removing one's consciousness from the passage of time could stop biological aging for the duration one remains in the flow state!

I agree that there is a sense of joy inherent in the flow state, but I also experience joy while immersed in daily activities and fully aware of time passing.  I believe it may be part of surrendering to your experience, and releasing neurotic attachments.
:heart:

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: JOY [Re: FreedomFight]
    #4381659 - 07/07/05 09:16 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

It ain't about what you know or don't know, it's about listening to haters. It was said in the 60s, "Don't trust anyone over 30," but I say, don't ever trust a hater, no matter who or what they're hatin'. If I know anything at all it's because I want to know. There's a lot of stuff I didn't want to learn - including Hebrew - that I wish I had learned. I had the opportunity but I was young and stupid and had issues. I can only blame myself, then get over myself and start again. Take some responsibility for having listened to the ignorant - they probably couldn't even help it. Unlearn the lies and relearn some truth, it's all any of us can do.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: JOY [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4382851 - 07/08/05 03:51 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

well angst certainly reduces joy, that is for sure.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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RUMI (a sufi poet) on JOY [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4383447 - 07/08/05 10:28 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

If you want what visible reality
can give, you're an employee.
If you want the unseen world,
you're not living your truth.
Both wishes are foolish,
but you'll be forgiven for forgetting
that what you really want is
love's confusing joy.
...Jelaluddin Rumi, the 13th century mystic poet


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: RUMI (a sufi poet) on JOY [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4383505 - 07/08/05 10:45 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Yes! :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: RUMI (a sufi poet) on JOY [Re: Icelander]
    #4384473 - 07/08/05 04:02 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


The drum of the realization of the promise is beating,
we are sweeping the road to the sky. Your joy is here today, what remains for tomorrow?
The armies of the day have chased the army of the night,
Heaven and earth are filled with purity and light.
Oh! joy for he who has escaped from this world of perfumes and color!
For beyond these colors and these perfumes, these are other colors in the heart and the soul.
Oh! joy for this soul and this heart who have escaped
the earth of water and clay,
Although this water and this clay contain the hearth of the
philosophical stone.




Yes, Rumi seems to have found joy in his life!

  :heart:

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