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OfflineBCBudJohn
Foolhardy

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 150
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: 2020 VISION What will Canada look like in 15 years? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4364618 - 07/02/05 09:56 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I agree that this article sounds more like someone trying to spark a conservative uprising than someone giving an accurate description of the "canadian mood".

Every canadian here went out july 1st, and probably had a BBQ, beer, watched some fireworks and felt so fucking proud to be apart of this country.

I think the national mood is pessimistic, but more people express resignation than confusion and cynicism. No one takes our multi-cultural heritage and tolerance of cultural identity (complete with their own laws and governing bodies)as lack of national direction and a slippery slope that will end in our annexation. More to the point, most canadians (and i mean, almost everybody) has their roots somewhere other than canada. Everybody can relate to the NEED for a cultural mosaic.

I agree, canada will be a leader, but we won't be the leader this articles purports to be the only way to attain world leadership. We will lead in a similar way to the restructuring of aid to africa (reduce the countries to 25, so we can be influential in a small way)

The fact is, we're only 30 million, our footprint is small, but a real leader is someone who follows their principle even when stacked up against bigger, pushier, more intimidating circumstances. This report doesn't address canada's reputation in the countries themselves, only of the governments and leading elites. After travelling to europe, mexico and central america, i know canada is respected.


--------------------
Peace
John


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OfflineBCBudJohn
Foolhardy

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 150
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: 2020 VISION What will Canada look like in 15 years? [Re: Phred]
    #4368104 - 07/04/05 12:37 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

So true.


--------------------
Peace
John


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OfflineBCBudJohn
Foolhardy

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 150
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: 2020 VISION What will Canada look like in 15 years? [Re: RiverMan]
    #4370152 - 07/04/05 06:29 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I believe that Quebecers have every right to speak their language in their country wherever they go in canada (even out west here, where we're closer to mexico than quebec) as i have a right to speak english if i choose to go to quebec or any other pre-dominantly french area (southern manitoba for example).
We are stronger for it as a nation. I know alot of people out west are, frankly, pissed about this idea. But we all need to respect our roots.


--------------------
Peace
John


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OfflineBCBudJohn
Foolhardy

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 150
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: 2020 VISION What will Canada look like in 15 years? [Re: Phred]
    #4370570 - 07/04/05 10:23 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Canadas public health-care system is still very young, of course it will be shaky to start. Taxation is a necessary part of a socialist system. By its very nature, there is more government to pay for, which is what canadians have chosen.

Name one scandal and corruption-free government on earth. The scandals the canadian government has undertaken are generally speaking less reprehensible and less dramatic than our neighbours. IMO.

Canadas military is a joke, largely because of underfunding, but this can be attributed to national interest. (not coercion of dogma and ideology). If you see how canadians responded in world war I and world war II, you would see an important aspect of canadas military is to defend itself from imminent and legitimate threats.

Yes, canada is well-know for its ridiculous beaurocracy.

One promising note is that the quality of life of canadians is one of the highest rated in the UN, in fact i believe it was #1 for a few years. Universal healthcare plays a large role.

Unfortunately, an un-moderated capitalist system leaves people behind, and takes away oppurtunity for those who are not already rich. Rich get richer, poor get poorer.
( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35175-2004Aug26.html )


--------------------
Peace
John


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OfflineBCBudJohn
Foolhardy

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 150
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: 2020 VISION What will Canada look like in 15 years? [Re: Phred]
    #4371141 - 07/05/05 01:45 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Four decades is "young"? If you say so, Gramps.




You said yourself the world lacks precedence for socialist based health-care systems. It will take trial and error to work out the best-value for money, universal healthcare system. Canadians have expressed a national interest in this, so it will be explored in time. I'm sure you heard of the courts decision in quebec to allow private clinics while the government twiddles its thumbs. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the system is perfect, i do however believe the idea of universal healthcare is one worth working towards (and yes this will entail long wait lists at times, but its better than just being out of luck if it were completely privatised with no insurance)

Yet another reason to denigrate Canada (and by extension, Canadians). Canada is (with the exception of Cuba) the most Socialist-oriented country in the Western hemisphere since the Sandinistas were voted out of power. Hell, even the Nicaraguans reject Socialism. Canadians embrace it.

I don't mind paying high taxes to help out my fellow man.

Quote:

In the sense that it's only Canadians getting screwed, perhaps. What I find reprehensible is that Canadians would prefer to re-elect and re-elect a party known by all to be corrupt to its core rather than risk having to actually do something for themselves.




And vote for whom, one of the other .. two choices? If you're not for sticking our nose up the americans asses and electing that blubbering idiot harper (who can show no merit for his party other than by contrast to the liberals) or the NDP who would waste away the economy on principles as they have demonstrated when elected provincially in BC, you take into account what the corrupt liberal government has wasted my money on, and what they've actually accomplished and the choice is obvious for me.

Theres even less choice in the US. Demo-crap and re-poop system.

Give up a shred of Nanny State cradle-to-grave mollycoddling -- which they don't even get anyway (see Canadian Medicare)? Perish the thought!

The idea is quality of life, equality for all in the name of freedom. A noble pursuit in my opinion. I wasn't put on earth to push my way through life helping myself along, while forgetting the rest. Why is the idea of universal care so intimidating? Its like having a huge extended family, everyone benefits in the end, and if you aren't willing to take a few hits for the team, you don't deserve to be on it. (now its the REAL hippy liberal BS, eh?) Universal care doesn't negate meritocracy. Ensuring poverty for many, abundance for few does.

Quote:

Defend itself? Get real. Hitler posed no threat whatsoever to Canada, either imminent or legitimate, nor did the Kaiser. But Canadian bomber pilots incinerated thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of defenseless German civilians.




I was proving our ability to mobilize to action on that which we feel strongly about. If we cared about having a big ass military, and we may one day, i'm sure we will move towards it. Thats what freedom is for.


--------------------
Peace
John


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OfflineBCBudJohn
Foolhardy

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 150
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: 2020 VISION What will Canada look like in 15 years? [Re: trendal]
    #4373060 - 07/05/05 05:40 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Phred your original points all stand with reasons that many of us have pointed out, justified or otherwise. Simply spinning those reasons with clever words like confiscatory, saying health-care is fucked (which it isn't, its simply to your disadvantage, it seems to keep the rest of the population happy), and that we're "addicted to a nanny-state," when in fact the ideal is universal care and certainly holds merit, whether you believe it is or not, the UN and much of the world recognises it is.

Simply shows bias and an unwillingness to engage in an open debate. Experience is one thing, having the single best canadian opinion, although quite an achievement (good for you!), you've simply disregarded all debate that has happened in favour of your expert opinions which together show that you can effectively spin words without giving a fair balance of knowledge, and without addressing the canadian mood.


--------------------
Peace
John


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