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Invisibleninetynine
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Registered: 12/05/02
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80 degrees and shrooms
    #4357709 - 07/01/05 02:01 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

so if someone lives in arizona, and they only have a swamp cooler(evaporative cooler) which at points can leave the house as hot as 85 degrees, should there be concerns of shroom potency degradation due to heat? are there any negative side effects of putting dried shrooms, zip locked, in the refrigerator? is this a good way to spare them from the hot environment? or is 85 degrees nada to shrooms?


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InvisibleMasonsChild
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Re: 80 degrees and shrooms [Re: ninetynine]
    #4359828 - 07/01/05 03:59 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Nothing to worry about. I keep reading about heat destroing the actives here but no one has ever given a personal experience that they have had with it. The pure chemicals degrade in labratory settings with exposure to heat, but I think it is much different when the chemical is in a mushroom, or in water, or muffin batter and not extracted and put into lab conditions. I find tea that is boiled heavily for ten or more minutes to increase in potency myself, just steeping is a waste IMO. I usually boil for more than a half hour and then bake at 450 when making muffins and I've never noticed a loss.
I'm basing this off of my own personal experience with hundereds of doses over the past 16 years, not something I read on the internet.


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Offlinehempknight
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Re: 80 degrees and shrooms [Re: MasonsChild]
    #4359904 - 07/01/05 04:19 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

it gets 100+ in florida and the shrooms thrive and taste good too. maybe if you lit them on fire theyd lose some ptency.. but probably not :smile:


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Offlinelemon_lw
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Re: 80 degrees and shrooms [Re: hempknight]
    #4360866 - 07/01/05 08:37 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

rumor has it it has to be 106F for the actives to break down. as for the tea seeming more potent, it is alot easier for the body to absorb liquid than it is to absorb food.


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InvisibleMasonsChild
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Re: 80 degrees and shrooms [Re: lemon_lw]
    #4364250 - 07/02/05 09:32 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Okay, now we're getting somewhere.
106 degrees while in pure crystal form, in the mushroom, or in water?
Does it all get rendered inactive, or a fraction?
If a fraction, is it noticeable?

I know the metabolism is highly speed up with tea, I was wondering if, say, 50% of the actives were destroyed by boiling and eating 3 grams has the same effect as drinking 1.5 grams of tea, That when eating you only absorb 25% of the actives. I know this statement is fallacious, but just trying to find out why people keep talking about heat destruction, when it is so hard to tell with all the other factors involved.
Plus I keep seeing instructions here for people to make tea without boiling, and only steeping. I've tried both, steeping about 5/10 of my first tea times(blueish tint, weak tea) and boiled every time since(tan colored, hallucinating before you finish the cup). I would assume they have tried both to suggest one over the other. My frustration in this heat thing is what prompted me to finally register here, too much here-say and not enough personal experience.


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OfflineShdwstr
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Re: 80 degrees and shrooms [Re: lemon_lw]
    #4364548 - 07/02/05 11:27 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lemon_lw said:
rumor has it it has to be 106F for the actives to break down. as for the tea seeming more potent, it is alot easier for the body to absorb liquid than it is to absorb food.




The actives as you say... do not break down at 106F. That is the temp that live mycellium begins to die off. It's also the temp that people begin to die off... that's internal temp... not external (as in a fever)

:wink:


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OfflineKalix
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Re: 80 degrees and shrooms [Re: Shdwstr]
    #4364566 - 07/02/05 11:33 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Boiling water is 212 degrees fahrenheit, and there's no conclusive proof that 4-HO-DMT(psilocybin) breaks down at all at those temps.. I'm sure hoping, for your sake, that your house never gets that hot..:grin:


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OfflineShdwstr
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Re: 80 degrees and shrooms [Re: Kalix]
    #4364649 - 07/03/05 12:06 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Everyone wants scientific proof :smile:

Here it is!

Notice the temps listed 220C - 228C, That's 428F - 442F and it's the melting temp only.
If you take a solid and raise it's temp to its melting point, it becomes liquid.
Return that same liquid to it's solid temp and... you get the same original solid (it is not destroyed)
So... Psilocybin IS NOT DESTROYED at temps as high as 442F

Notice the temp for Psilocin, and that it is only measured in Methanol.
That is because in water... the oxygen molocules of the water would oxidize it and desrtoy it. (Not the heat)
So... when you dry your shrooms, The active ingredients of Psilocybin and Psilocin are exposed to oxygen destroying the Psilocin but not the Psilocybin, no matter what the temp is.

Keep in mind that this only refers to the chemical form... not live mycellium.

Lesson over, class may now eat their science projects  :laugh:


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InvisibleMasonsChild
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Re: 80 degrees and shrooms [Re: Shdwstr]
    #4366310 - 07/03/05 02:40 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you, I can't believe how many people here think that boiling or cooking mushrooms will cause them to lose potency. This has to stop, too many people are drinking half-ass tea and not making space brownies and muffins out of this fear of heat.

But another question: The oxygen atoms in the water destroying? Other than the ones connected to hydrogen atoms to form water witch should stay intact, how much oxidation could there be?


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OfflineShdwstr
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Re: 80 degrees and shrooms [Re: MasonsChild]
    #4366343 - 07/03/05 02:57 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Psilocin is very reactive to oxygen. Think of it... one third of the water is oxygen. Enough in it to let fish breathe. So yes... it does oxidize and get destroyed in water :smile:

Shdwstr


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InvisibleMasonsChild
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Re: 80 degrees and shrooms [Re: Shdwstr]
    #4366380 - 07/03/05 03:13 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"Psilocin is very reactive to oxygen. Think of it... one third of the water is oxygen. Enough in it to let fish breathe. So yes... it does oxidize and get destroyed in water"

Okay,
water H2O
Psilocybin C12H17N2O4P
Baeocystin C11H15N2O4P

by that reasoning wouldn't Psilocybin, baeocystin and the mushroom fruitbody itself be more prone to oxidize the psilocin?

Maybe if you added electricity to the water to split the H and O. H2O is extremly stable. If psilocin could break the H and O bond of a water molecule I would be surprized, especially when a mushroom is mostly water.
Fish breathing? I'm not touching that one.


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OfflineShdwstr
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Re: 80 degrees and shrooms [Re: MasonsChild]
    #4366687 - 07/03/05 05:28 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MasonsChild said:
Okay,
water H2O
Psilocybin C12H17N2O4P
Baeocystin C11H15N2O4P

by that reasoning wouldn't Psilocybin, baeocystin and the mushroom fruitbody itself be more prone to oxidize the psilocin?... especially when a mushroom is mostly water.





It doesn't seem too :smile: Scientific proof... numerous personal bioassay testing!
Your right a mushroom is over 90% water, water that is seperate from the active ingredient contained within the mushrooms cells. When the cell walls are ruptured as in brusing, drying, freezing, boiling etc the psilocin is exposed and oxidizes turning blue. (Hey! The blue could be Mushroom rust :smile:)
Fortunately for all of us, this doesn't apply to the Psilocybin, which is converted to psilocin after injestion.


Quote:

MasonsChild said:
Fish breathing? I'm not touching that one.




Heheheh... Don't blame ya :lol:

Take Care


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