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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Karl McCarthy
    #4356670 - 06/30/05 08:51 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin...p;date=20050630

Quote:

E.J. Dionne / Syndicated columnist
The rebirth of McCarthyism


WASHINGTON ? In the 1950s, the right wing attacked liberals for being communists. In 2005, Karl Rove has attacked liberals for being therapists. Thus is born a kinder and gentler form of McCarthyism.

Named after the late Sen. Joe McCarthy, who never let the facts get in the way of his lust to charge liberals with sedition, McCarthyism has come to mean "guilt by association."

What gave McCarthyism its power was that the senator from Wisconsin did not invent the danger posed by Soviet communism. The Soviet Union was a real threat and there were communist spies working in America.

What made McCarthy and his allies so insidious was their eagerness to level the "soft on communism" charge against even staunchly anti-communist liberals. One of them was Secretary of State Dean Acheson, an architect of Harry Truman's tough policy of containing Soviet power. In the 1952 presidential campaign, Richard Nixon pounded Democratic nominee Adlai Stevenson for earning a "Ph.D. from Dean Acheson's College of Cowardly Communist Containment."

The McCarthyites' real enemies were not communists but the New Deal liberals who had dominated American politics for 20 years. The McCarthy crowd was willing to divide the nation at a time of grave international peril if that's what it took to beat the liberals.

Rove's instantly famous speech last week to the New York state Conservative Party should be read in light of this history and not be written off as a cheap, one-time partisan attack. On the contrary, the address by Rove, President Bush's most important adviser, provides the outlines of a sophisticated strategy aimed at making liberals and Democrats all look soft on terrorism.

Here are the key passages: "Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers. In the wake of 9/11, conservatives believed it was time to unleash the might and power of the United States military against the Taliban; in the wake of 9/11, liberals believed it was time to submit a petition. ... Conservatives saw what happened to us on 9/11 and said: We will defeat our enemies. Liberals saw what happened to us and said: We must understand our enemies."

Liberals and Democrats were enraged by Rove because virtually every office-holding liberal and Democrat closed ranks behind President Bush on 9/11. They endorsed the use of force against the terrorists and, when the time came, strongly backed the war in Afghanistan.

But Rove knows how to play this game. The only evidence he adduces for his therapy charge is a petition in which the current executive director of Move-On.org called for "moderation and restraint" in the wake of 9/11. Rove then slides smoothly from the attack on MoveOn to attacks on Michael Moore and Howard Dean. Finally, Rove tosses in an assault on Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., for his statement that an FBI report on the treatment of prisoners at Guant?namo Bay might remind Americans of the practices of Nazi and communist dictatorships.

In the ensuing controversy, Rove's defenders cleverly sought to pretend that there was nothing partisan about Rove's speech. "Karl didn't say 'the Democratic Party,' " insisted Ken Mehlman, the Republican national chairman. "He said 'liberals.' " It must have been purely accidental that one of the "liberals" mentioned was the Democratic national chairman and another was the Senate Democratic whip. It must also have been accidental that both of them, like most other liberals, supported the war in Afghanistan, not therapy. At the time, Durbin called the war "essential."

On Friday, White House spokesman Scott McClellan narrowed the Rove attack even more. McClellan found it "puzzling" that Democrats were "coming to the defense of liberal organizations like MoveOn.org and people like Michael Moore," when, in fact, Democrats were coming to their own defense. McClellan also ignored what Mehlman had conceded the day before ? and what the text of Rove's remarks plainly shows: that Rove was attacking liberals generally, not just these two targets.

That's how guilt-by-association works. Make a charge and then ? once your attack is out there ? pretend that your words have been misinterpreted. Split your opponents. Put them on the defensive. Force them to say things like: "No, we're not soft on terrorism," or, "I'm not that kind of liberal." Once this happens, the attacker has already won.

Respectable opinion treats Rove's speech as just another partisan flap. It's much more. It's the reincarnation of a style of politics that turns political opponents into traitors or dupes who are soft on the nation's enemies. Welcome back to the '50s.




--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
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Re: Karl McCarthy [Re: cb9fl]
    #4356988 - 06/30/05 10:27 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

That's a pretty lengthy and convoluted way of admitting what Rove stated -- Libbies have a different reaction to threats than do conservatives.

Quote:

Rove's instantly famous speech last week to the New York state Conservative Party ...




The only reason it was instantly famous is because the Libbie mainstream media immediately hype to the heavens any perceived "insult" from the mouth of anyone to the right of Karl Marx. Note the lack of interest in Durbin's remarks. The MSM gave it a complete pass until the outrage from the blogosphere, talk radio, and the average American forced them to pay attention to it. Rove was talking to a small audience of like-minded individuals. Durbin was making a speech on the floor of the US Senate. Yet Durbin's remarks get buried for days while Rove's get plastered over every front page immediately. No Leftie bias in the MSM, though. Nuh-uh.

Quote:

On the contrary, the address by Rove, President Bush's most important adviser, provides the outlines of a sophisticated strategy aimed at making liberals and Democrats all look soft on terrorism.




Sigh. More of Dionne's patented moonbat conspiracy theorizing. Look, it isn't even remotely necessary to have any kind of "sophisticated strategy" to make Libbies look soft on terrorism -- all that's necessary is to reprint their comments on the subject.

Quote:

The only evidence he adduces for his therapy charge is a petition in which the current executive director of Move-On.org called for "moderation and restraint" in the wake of 9/11.




Dionne is being deliberately obtuse here. Rove was giving a freaking speech fa cryin' out loud, not writing a doctoral dissertation with pages of triple-sourced footnotes. As Dionne is all too aware, there was no shortage of supporting quotes from all quarters providing dozens (probably into the hundreds by now -- I stopped counting two days after the commentary started) of examples every bit as loopy as the one from Moveon.org -- many of them from prominent Democrats.

Quote:

Respectable opinion treats Rove's speech as just another partisan flap. It's much more. It's the reincarnation of a style of politics that turns political opponents into traitors or dupes who are soft on the nation's enemies. Welcome back to the '50s.




Stop being such a Libbie pussy, E.J., and get a grip. Prominent Dems have been calling Bush a liar and a loser for years. They've been calling conservatives nazis, fascists, mean-spirited, declaring they hate Republicans and a whole lot worse. Durbin compared the members of the US military serving at Guantanamo to Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot. Yet E.J. gets his french silk panties in a twist and starts ranting on about a new McCarthyism (which admittedly is just a tad less hyperbolic than the whole Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot business from Turban Durbin) just because someone finally dared point out that Libbies are softer on terrorists than conservatives.

What a girly-man.



Phred


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Karl McCarthy [Re: cb9fl]
    #4357898 - 07/01/05 02:44 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

McCarthyism: Forty questions and answers about Senator Joseph McCarthy

FBI Venona Archives, released in the 1990s

Joseph McCarty Was Right

Book?s surprising twists keep alive McCarthy era debate

After the fall of the Soviet Union, Borris Yeltsin gave access to classified Soviet Documents. It also allowed our government to declassify sensitive material relating to Soviet espionage. The most damaging documents for McCarthy-haters were those of the Venona project in America and the Comintern archives from the USSR.

Quote:

The Comintern was the organization in the Soviet Union that controlled communist parties throughout the world, and when Soviet President Boris Yeltsin decided to open the documents to a select group of American historians, they revealed that the Communist Party in the United States was under the control of the Soviet Union, which decided disputes in the American party.

The so-called Venona documents are cablegrams that were sent by Soviet KGB agents to Moscow. Designed to be unbreakable, the codes were first broken in 1946, but, because of political reasons, only declassified in the 1990s.

The Venona documents showed that since 1942 the nation had been targeted by an intense and widespread Soviet espionage program that had utilized numerous professional Soviet agents and hundreds of Americans, often taken from the ranks of Communist Party members who were the most fiercely loyal to the party and its goals.

?The release of the Venona documents sent shockwaves through the American historical community,? says Redish. ?They showed that the elite core of the American Communist Party was up to its neck in both conducting Soviet espionage and facilitating the conduct of Soviet espionage by Russian agents.?




The term the Ruskies used to use was "usefull idiots".

Tailgunner Joe was the fucking man. He was right, and history reflects that even if liberal historians don't.

FDR's right hand man at Yalta, Harry Dexter White was a communist spy. FDR was a dying aged man, and "Uncle Joe" Stalin and Communist White proceeded to swindle half of Europe into communist slavery for the next 50 years.

Back in the 50's they used to have spirted debates on how we lost China to communism. Now that we know how extensively the State department WAS infiltrated with communists, it isn't to hard to answer. Chairman Mao killed 50 million during "The Great Leap Forward", and enslaved over a billion more in a totalitarian state. We ended up fighting two brutal wars on Asian soil to fight the advance of communism.

Everything taught in highschools about Joseph McCarthy is a lie. He was spot on. Our State Department was littered with Soviet Spies. We gave away Europe, we gave away China, we gave away the nuclear bomb, we gave it all away. And McCarthy came along and called a spade a spade, and he is the most reviled politician in American history. All for telling the truth.

The truth will set you free.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken


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Invisiblechunder
marker

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 965
Loc: The City
Re: Karl McCarthy [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4360966 - 07/01/05 09:14 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"We gave away Europe, we gave away China, we gave away the nuclear bomb, we gave it all away."


We owned "Europe" and "China", also the nuclear bomb? Did we own the land, or the people? Or did we own the governments operating there? Did we own the science behind nuclear reactions? Did we own the concept or explosives, utilizing explosive materials?

If the truth sets you free, then you must also be free from the idea of "possessing" things, especially concepts like "Europe" and "China" and "nuclear bomb". Truth seems to be too slippery to be owned ; )


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Karl McCarthy [Re: chunder]
    #4361526 - 07/02/05 12:37 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

That is a great philosophical debate. Maybe we never "owned" nuclear technology. Maybe that technology existed in a vacuum, even if we never had discovered it. What is not metaphysical is the fact that an American scientist that was a Russian spy gave Russia atomic technology.

Maybe we never owned Europe. Maybe even Europeans don't even own Europe. For the point of my argument, I don't care. I am not talking in a metaphysical sense. I am talking about the Yalta Conference that actually divided up Europe in real and human terms. I am talking about the Eastern bloc of European countries under Soviet domination. I am trying to convey the fact that FDR was an aged old man and his right hand man at Yalta, Alger Hiss, was a confirmed Soviet spy.

Maybe we never "owned" China, blah blah blah. You get the picture.

The Department of State was overrun with communists. Joe McCarthy was right. Fuck the semantics and the metaphysics. People died, and those that lived were subjugated to horrible lives. That is real. That didn't happen in a vacuum. It happened on planet earth.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken


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