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OfflinePsiloman
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What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"?
    #4355123 - 06/30/05 01:49 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Hello people,this is my first time in the Drug War Arena,and i think it to be an interesting place.

So i have looked around a bit,check the aruments and countearguments for and against WOD and i have a question for debate:

Since we cannot "argue the DEA or public opinion to death",no matter how flaming our rhetoric prowess is, should we take another path and start setting the nice example?

My argument is : The Drug war needs a certain image ,a stereotype, of the drug user to be prevalent in societys mind (tnhat is the majority's mind) of drug use and drug user in order to work and not cause civil unrest.The portrate existing is preety bad and i cant help to wonder why many users still dont take any steps to prove them wrong!

I am going to be strict here : Many drug users seem to do everything they can to paint an even worse portrait of the average user. Imagine having 100 points in order to be an example of responsible psychoactives use that his words are kept first and foremost by himself.

Now deduct points for these:
-some points Driving under the influece
-Quite a lot of points for ICU-hospital drug related visits
- some points for Taking pills and powders that you have not checked first with a reagent (test kit
-Alot of points for ending up in rehab (its not going to rehab the sad part ,the sad part is the path that leads you there)
-Quite alot of ponts for not researching a drug you took ,for basing your trust only to the "its ok ,i did it yesterday" words of a friend.
-A lot of points for failing fulfiling responsibilities as a result of drug use
-A great deal of points for any short of drug use that sends out a "Drug users get into trouble one way or another" message to your family,to immediate enviroment and society.
-Minus a 1000 for dying.

Well ,if now we research Erowid experience vaults we will find that many of those behaviours that deduce points are prevalent! Some of the reports even contain the whole lot! Is this the drug user image we want people to have? Is this our ideal? If not,then something must be done! And no,i dont mean starting from tommorow and the person near you i mean starting from today and from ourselves.

So,debate, do you think we need such an action to take place and do you think it could bring results to the Drug war arena?


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OfflineSycronica
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: Psiloman]
    #4355316 - 06/30/05 02:38 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think it is possible for drug users to set a responsible face for the majority to think of. The deck is stacked against them. (one drug charge and now you have tons of trouble finding a job)

Could the jews fix their situation under hitler by themselves? I think it's gonna take an outside force to end the war on drugs. Untill people get some tolerance training they are going to be happy seeing drug users locked up. I would wager if we let it out of control they would be locking up gays.


--------------------
Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.


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OfflineStrandedVoyager
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: Sycronica]
    #4355501 - 06/30/05 03:33 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I do drugs.


--------------------
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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: StrandedVoyager]
    #4355619 - 06/30/05 04:03 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

PhatWhitey420 said:
I do drugs.




Do you do them responsibly without fucking up,or some of your "experimentation" has been in the records of the local hospital?

Thing is the more "fuck ups" that happen the more people handling them (family,medical stuff ,schoolteaches etc etc) have reasons to say "Look man,drugs destroy lives,i have seen X amount of people fuck up on them and some of them i had to help them myself"

No matter if the psychedelic scene has "shulgins" ,it take 20 shulgins to fix the fuckup of one cluebie!


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OfflineBCBudJohn
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: Psiloman]
    #4364768 - 07/03/05 01:00 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I agree. I fight the war by doing drugs, being open, honest and intelligent about it to EVERYONE, so that if people know i do drugs, and also know i go to university, have two jobs, lots of friends, no harmful addictions and plenty of aspirations, most people (and of course there are the minority of the stubborn ignorant) forget that its even an issue.

Don't support the pusher man, its easier, safer and a better example to grow your own like nature intended. Not everyone has the benefit of living in a liberal area where you can get away with it, but dont give up the fight.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: BCBudJohn]
    #4370478 - 07/04/05 11:53 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

i cant think of anything that would be more than a petty half measure


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InvisibleAdden
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: Psiloman]
    #4373280 - 07/05/05 08:48 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

The only thing I can think of is stopping the spread of misinformation/propaganda and keep those who are using informed. That's only on a local level, but it's all I can really do, right?


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: Adden]
    #4375767 - 07/06/05 03:00 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Everyone does his part.As situation holds,not fucking up is still doing your part since there are so many people that do.


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Invisibletak
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: Psiloman]
    #4401794 - 07/14/05 12:25 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I agree with what you said.

I think a large part of our problems is the propoganda that has been drilled into our brains since day one. Even the video's they showed us in school made drug users out to be hte scum o the earth, and not like us. They are diffrent, they are people who cannot function in society, etc.

I believe that this needs to change first, before we can do anything else. Tons of people use drugs and hide it. In the world we live in, its in most peoples best interest to hide it, so it kind of works backwards.

I think people need to understand that substance users, not abusers, can and do play active roles in society.

I am not saying that people need to go out and broadcast their personal activities to the world, but if everyday people let te cat out of the bag, things might change a little.

I strongly feel that people who are in a position to take action do, and even if its as small as speaking up to someone spreading misinformation. The truth will set us free.

I dont know of anything large scale that would do any good, but thats what organizations like aclu and norml are for.

I really do think that every little bit counts though.

I let people know my agenda, and they also know that I go to work on time, pay my rent on time, and give back to the community.

The more people can associate use, for example smoking pot, with their friends and families, the slower they are to call the police when they see a young man walking down the street with a joint.

I think it would also make a good point to show examples of the "blood" that is currently shed because of legalities. It is a cutthroat business, and attracts people who want easy money. People get killed over drugs, and I believe that to end with the end of the drug war.

Marijuana and mushrooms for example are easily grown domesticaly, in your home town. I am sure there have been many problems with transactions, but im sure they dont compare to the slaughter associated with foreign drugs like cocaine and heroin.

I dont know.

I know somethign can be done, and is being done. I just wish it would happen sooner. Because like they say, in a number of years from now, we will all look back at this time period and relize that the war on drugs was one giant human rights violation.


--------------------
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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: tak]
    #4406978 - 07/15/05 06:36 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Some of the problems I see with the "war on WOD":

1) There is no cohesive, all-encompassing community. There are a lot of groups which proselytize the wonders of whatever drug they do, like the shroomery, but hardly any of these work together.
2) While many of us here are pro-shrooms and pro-pot, there are other communites that are pro-pot and anti-shrooms, or pro-xtc or pro-crack (you never know). This causes a rift between groups. Just as we would slap someone for saying crack should be legal (atleast i would), someone might think I am stupid for saying shrooms should be legal.
3) Because of #1 and #2, there is no prime-political (because thats really all it is) platform. Sure NORML lobbies a little, but just for its own agenda...
4) and this is the biggest one i think.... If someone is a great example of a good drug user, most of the time, you wouldnt ever know it. It is only the fuck up degenerates that OD, spaz out, get in wrecks etc. that make up the image of the drug user, because that is the only one that can be recognized....
5) I think we need to issue a counter attack also.... How in the fuck, in the midst of the great War on Drugs, can our government/doctors/schoolteachers/police --- allow/prescribe 8 year olds sedatives, speed, and other mind altering drugs. High school kids are allowed to drive to school numbed up on xanex, or adderol, or paxil; yet I cannot smoke a bowl in the privacy of my own home. It would be crippling to the WOD if we could show the harmful effects of legal drugs which 1 in 4 kids in America are on, while showing statistics of the harmlessness of some illegal drugs.
I almost throw up everytime I see that "my sister drowned because I was getting high" commercial, directly followed by a commercial for some new anti-depressant, or a beer commercial.


Edited by psilocyberin (07/15/05 06:40 AM)


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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4427985 - 07/20/05 01:30 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

i do my part by debating with anyone i come across that says anything negative about drugs, im a pretty intelligent guy and i usually educate people on some things they never knew, id say that 70% of the people i argue with about drugs, i change their way of thinking, the only people i can never change are the older assholes who were taught their whole lives by their parents and the government that drugs are bad and will ruin your lives. they just wont see it any other way, which is fine in my opinion because just about everyone that i talk with about it that is 30 and under i usually affect in a positive way, and they leave with a much more positive attitude towards drugs, even if they still decide not to do them. and THATS a win in my book. they only way we can ever win this war is if we ALL educate ourselves and in turn educate the younger generations, the older generations are a lost cause. i feel that we have a LONG way to go before we get there but i definately see progress all around me. i think that were at a point now that if EVERY drug user/experimenter were to "come out of the closet" that we would have more than enough people to change this whole mess, but i doubt this will happen for a while. think about this. there are some 2-3 million ADMITTED pot smokers, do you have any idea how many cant or wont admit it publicly? for the simple reason that they own businesses, could lose their jobs, their livelyhoods and more if everyone knew they were drug users? take my whole family for example out of 5 people im the only ADMITTED pot smoker, now if you multiply the admitted smokers by that, then thats 10-12 million smokers, and i feel that guess is probably short of how many there actually are. mix that in with shroomers, cokers and X'ers, ill bet we could have a very large movement on our hands. but like i said everyone is afraid to come out.


--------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." 
~Thomas Jefferson

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington


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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4428021 - 07/20/05 01:38 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

i agree psilocyberin, those commercials make me sick to my stomach, besides BUSH thats the only other thing that gets me that worked up. so your saying that just because i smoke pot im going to run over a girl in a drive through? im going to let my brother drown? im gonna smoke a joint and fall asleep and burn the damn house down?  im going to get my girlfriend pregnant? im going to have unprotected sex and get aids?? im sorry but every one of those commercials can and does happen to alot of people not just smokers. i wanna shoot someone everytime i see that shit. :machinegun: and the thing that gets me is everyone i know, knows thats a bunch of shit.... so whos actually buying into this crap?


--------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." 
~Thomas Jefferson

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington


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OfflineGernBlanston
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4477846 - 07/31/05 06:52 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

There are some great points here, and I agree wholeheartedly - the best way to be a positive mouthpiece for the anti-drug-war community is to be a standup human being with goals and aspirations and a job and friends and a life, and to simultaneously talk to the people in your life about what bullshit the WoD really is.

I subscribe to the DRC Newsletter at http://stopthedrugwar.org/index.shtml - it's a fantastic site and a great resource. I give them some money when I can by buying premiums from them. I highly recommend "Busted" on DVD. It's a great look at what your rights are and are not in a number of different circumstances.

Be responsible. Don't be ashamed, but don't be stupid. The drug war is losing steam in many ways, but I've seen the consequences of some aspects of it with my own eyes - we can't be too careful. It's going to take some real leaders to help us kill the WoD in the end, but I can see it coming...


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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OfflineLSDempire
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4512468 - 08/09/05 12:28 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

leftysurprise said:
i do my part by debating with anyone i come across that says anything negative about drugs, im a pretty intelligent guy and i usually educate people on some things they never knew, id say that 70% of the people i argue with about drugs, i change their way of thinking, the only people i can never change are the older assholes who were taught their whole lives by their parents and the government that drugs are bad and will ruin your lives. they just wont see it any other way, which is fine in my opinion because just about everyone that i talk with about it that is 30 and under i usually affect in a positive way, and they leave with a much more positive attitude towards drugs, even if they still decide not to do them. and THATS a win in my book. they only way we can ever win this war is if we ALL educate ourselves and in turn educate the younger generations, the older generations are a lost cause. i feel that we have a LONG way to go before we get there but i definately see progress all around me. i think that were at a point now that if EVERY drug user/experimenter were to "come out of the closet" that we would have more than enough people to change this whole mess, but i doubt this will happen for a while. think about this. there are some 2-3 million ADMITTED pot smokers, do you have any idea how many cant or wont admit it publicly? for the simple reason that they own businesses, could lose their jobs, their livelyhoods and more if everyone knew they were drug users? take my whole family for example out of 5 people im the only ADMITTED pot smoker, now if you multiply the admitted smokers by that, then thats 10-12 million smokers, and i feel that guess is probably short of how many there actually are. mix that in with shroomers, cokers and X'ers, ill bet we could have a very large movement on our hands. but like i said everyone is afraid to come out.




Let me start by saying I agree with you, but I don't think we can end the war on drugs until we get rid of the corrupt two party system that forces us to choose from "the lesser of two evils".


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: LSDempire]
    #4519219 - 08/10/05 08:12 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

If we want drugs legal...

we need to change our economy first...

Laundered drug money shows up in the stockmarket inflating prices...


--------------------
"You might not be aware of this, but there are a lot of dickheads on the Internet." - D. Wong


Edited by Cowgold (08/10/05 08:20 PM)


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Offlineleery11
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: Cowgold]
    #4523530 - 08/11/05 08:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

leftysurprise said:
i agree psilocyberin, those commercials make me sick to my stomach, besides BUSH thats the only other thing that gets me that worked up. so your saying that just because i smoke pot im going to run over a girl in a drive through? im going to let my brother drown? im gonna smoke a joint and fall asleep and burn the damn house down?  im going to get my girlfriend pregnant? im going to have unprotected sex and get aids?? im sorry but every one of those commercials can and does happen to alot of people not just smokers. i wanna shoot someone everytime i see that shit. :machinegun: and the thing that gets me is everyone i know, knows thats a bunch of shit.... so whos actually buying into this crap?




you don't have to believe the commcerials, as far as i can see they serve 3 purposes:
1) to indoctrinate extremely young children and very weak minds of all ages.
2) to remind everyone else that the fuhrer is still reigning strong and even though he hears our oppressed voices, he doesn't give a damn. (you'll notice that the commercials are less and less evil towards marijuana and sometimes lump it in the same category of drinking, but still demonize it all the same)
3) to add another piece of hypnopaedia to our saturated unconscious minds. The conscious mind doesn't believe the commercial, but when you see thousands of similar ones, it gets registered in the "marijuana is bad" pile, and subtly reinforces a general public hatred toward drug users.

Plus, have you seen the newest ones where the parents are yelling and screaming at their kids and doing everything but sodomizing them with tire irons because of simple posession of pot? Parents identify with the trauma of "problemed children" and if they think the commercial is bullshit, it still tells them to punish their kids for doing drugs. It tells kids to be terrified of their parents as well. Then the one where it says to LIE TO YOUR FUCKING CHILDREN AND NOT TELL THEM THAT YOU USED TO SMOKE POT WHEN YOU WERE YOUNGER when you decide to lecture them against pot use themselves.

No, I'm not making that up. It shows a guy fiddling with a ring in black and white, it starts off very deceptively, lures you in, makes you feel sorry for him, makes you think something important is going on... then it hits you with the word "hypocrite" and the propoganda unfolds.

The key to winninig the war is winning control over the airwaves, whatever the TV says repeatedly over and over, people will at least partially agree with on some level, as television is an innacurate reflection of society designed specifically for us to relate to and model ourselves over.

--------
I don't want to sound hysteric but the drug war can only go two ways. It can end with free masses, or it can end in a police state. There is no other way for it to go, and it's heading towards the police state route.

Sensenbrenner, who must be the incarnation of Hitler (and there are many floating around) is trying to get a bill passed that would put every single American in prison. It will be a crime punishable by MANDATORY MININUMS to not report ANY known drug activity (read: narcing on loved ones) within 24 hours.

This is a brick in the road to ethnic cleansing, no good can come of such laws even if rarely enforced.

http://www.famm.org/si_federal_sentencing_sensenbrenner05.htm


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineLSDempire
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: leery11]
    #4541283 - 08/16/05 05:50 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
Quote:

leftysurprise said:
i agree psilocyberin, those commercials make me sick to my stomach, besides BUSH thats the only other thing that gets me that worked up. so your saying that just because i smoke pot im going to run over a girl in a drive through? im going to let my brother drown? im gonna smoke a joint and fall asleep and burn the damn house down?  im going to get my girlfriend pregnant? im going to have unprotected sex and get aids?? im sorry but every one of those commercials can and does happen to alot of people not just smokers. i wanna shoot someone everytime i see that shit. :machinegun: and the thing that gets me is everyone i know, knows thats a bunch of shit.... so whos actually buying into this crap?




you don't have to believe the commcerials, as far as i can see they serve 3 purposes:
1) to indoctrinate extremely young children and very weak minds of all ages.
2) to remind everyone else that the fuhrer is still reigning strong and even though he hears our oppressed voices, he doesn't give a damn. (you'll notice that the commercials are less and less evil towards marijuana and sometimes lump it in the same category of drinking, but still demonize it all the same)
3) to add another piece of hypnopaedia to our saturated unconscious minds. The conscious mind doesn't believe the commercial, but when you see thousands of similar ones, it gets registered in the "marijuana is bad" pile, and subtly reinforces a general public hatred toward drug users.

Plus, have you seen the newest ones where the parents are yelling and screaming at their kids and doing everything but sodomizing them with tire irons because of simple posession of pot? Parents identify with the trauma of "problemed children" and if they think the commercial is bullshit, it still tells them to punish their kids for doing drugs. It tells kids to be terrified of their parents as well. Then the one where it says to LIE TO YOUR FUCKING CHILDREN AND NOT TELL THEM THAT YOU USED TO SMOKE POT WHEN YOU WERE YOUNGER when you decide to lecture them against pot use themselves.

No, I'm not making that up. It shows a guy fiddling with a ring in black and white, it starts off very deceptively, lures you in, makes you feel sorry for him, makes you think something important is going on... then it hits you with the word "hypocrite" and the propoganda unfolds.

The key to winninig the war is winning control over the airwaves, whatever the TV says repeatedly over and over, people will at least partially agree with on some level, as television is an innacurate reflection of society designed specifically for us to relate to and model ourselves over.

--------
I don't want to sound hysteric but the drug war can only go two ways. It can end with free masses, or it can end in a police state. There is no other way for it to go, and it's heading towards the police state route.

Sensenbrenner, who must be the incarnation of Hitler (and there are many floating around) is trying to get a bill passed that would put every single American in prison. It will be a crime punishable by MANDATORY MININUMS to not report ANY known drug activity (read: narcing on loved ones) within 24 hours.

This is a brick in the road to ethnic cleansing, no good can come of such laws even if rarely enforced.

http://www.famm.org/si_federal_sentencing_sensenbrenner05.htm




I agree with you but the Internet is so much newer than the "war on drugs" and TV.  The government can flood the Internet with all the mindless propaganda they want, but people who go online tend to be smarter than the people that watch TV.  Plus the government can censor TV, but censoring the Internet is nearly impossible.


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OfflineE8Kruesler
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: tak]
    #4596201 - 08/29/05 09:01 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Hello, I'm new to not only this board, but to posting comments on bulletin boards.
I read everyone's comments, all were interesting.
But this comment by root-ninja-tak grabbed my attention. "I think it would also make a good point to show examples of the "blood" that is currently shed because of legalities. It is a cutthroat business, and attracts people who want easy money. People get killed over drugs, and I believe that to end with the end of the drug war." --root-ninja-tak
I am not a drug user--except for coffee. When I think of the drug war, there are several very important things I think of first--and the reputations of drug users is definitely not one of them. I think of:
1) Thousands murdered in turf wars.
2) $40+ Billion wasted in the drug war
3) Taxes not collected from the sale of forbidden fruit
4) Big financial support to foreign armies and national economies--money that should be staying inside the United States
5) Erosion of our civil liberties--including those who, like me, have nothing to do personally with illegal drugs.
To revisit 2): Costs
850,000 police in the U.S. at an average of $35,000 per officer
The cost of prisons, both federal, state and private prisons
The cost of human suffering and the wasted human talent of those who are sent to prison to serve ridiculously long sentences for possession or selling in order to survive--especially people of color. Remember, there are NOT jobs for all those who want to work.
Drug-related car thefts, drug-related shoplifting, higher insurance premiums all of us end up paying because of the drug war. Here we have to ask, "Why did you steal this car?" A) Was it for a quick joy ride, B) to obtain spare parts for your car, or C) to help pay for the next month's rent, 4) OR was it to buy expensive drugs?" Therefore, were it not for the drug war, we could eliminate reason #4.
The reason for the 18th Amendment was to remove a serious problem of the family breadwinner spending his income in taverns instead of supporting his wife and children. But within 14 years, this nation learned that law enforcement of this personal-choice issue was worse than the problem of alcoholism. -- I wish I could come up with an answer, but why aren't Americans applying the lessons learned from the failure of Prohibition and applying that to the failure of the drug war?
The human cost is the biggest cost. In 1990, there were around 24,000 homicides in the U.S. The large majority were because of the drug war. When one looks at the homicide statistics from 1920 to 1933 (the years spanning from the 18th to the 21st Amendments), the rate of homicides climb from around 1924 and peaked in 1933. After the ratification of the 21st Amendment (Dec 5, 1933), the homicide rate declined steadily and leveled out towards World War II. And, interestingly, the consumption of alcohol actually increased during Prohibition. Very similar to today where we now have more drugs than when Pres. Nixon announced the war on drugs, we have purer drugs and we have cheaper drugs. And we have more than 2 million people in prison and that number will reach 3 million--unless the Iraq war and other factors actually breaks the back of the American economy where the most stubborn and closed-minded will have to cry Uncle and at least release non-violent users and sellers of Schedule One drugs. Most regrettably, we always think in terms of economics, the dollar amount. This Christian-dominated culture seldom thinks in terms of human suffering.
The cost of the drug war has been estimated to be about $40 Billion every twelve months. Does anyone have a figure on how many thousands of drug-related homicides there are in the United States? How many billions of dollars drift across our border into the hands of Latin American drug lords, or Middle Eastern terrorists? If your average American thinks, what do they think about? Hm-m-m. Let me think. Well, there's NASCAR, football, sit-coms, video games, cars--everything but how we can improve the quality of life for everyone.
Does anyone have a figure of dollars spent building more prisons and how much money was NOT spent on education and services to the elderly? In our "wealthy" nation, wouldn't it be possible to make a tuition-free college education available to all those who meet basic entrance exams?
I'm sure the participant of these board discussions can think of lots more things $40 Billion could buy every year: bridge repair, R&D for alternative fuels, advances in science and technology.
Only a few people live in a wealthy America, the rest of us live in a poor America.
--E8Kruesler


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OfflineLSDempire
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Re: What do YOU do agaist "war on drugs"? [Re: E8Kruesler]
    #4596438 - 08/29/05 10:11 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

E8Kruesler said:
Hello, I'm new to not only this board, but to posting comments on bulletin boards.
I read everyone's comments, all were interesting.
But this comment by root-ninja-tak grabbed my attention. "I think it would also make a good point to show examples of the "blood" that is currently shed because of legalities. It is a cutthroat business, and attracts people who want easy money. People get killed over drugs, and I believe that to end with the end of the drug war." --root-ninja-tak
I am not a drug user--except for coffee. When I think of the drug war, there are several very important things I think of first--and the reputations of drug users is definitely not one of them. I think of:
1) Thousands murdered in turf wars.
2) $40+ Billion wasted in the drug war
3) Taxes not collected from the sale of forbidden fruit
4) Big financial support to foreign armies and national economies--money that should be staying inside the United States
5) Erosion of our civil liberties--including those who, like me, have nothing to do personally with illegal drugs.
To revisit 2): Costs
850,000 police in the U.S. at an average of $35,000 per officer
The cost of prisons, both federal, state and private prisons
The cost of human suffering and the wasted human talent of those who are sent to prison to serve ridiculously long sentences for possession or selling in order to survive--especially people of color. Remember, there are NOT jobs for all those who want to work.
Drug-related car thefts, drug-related shoplifting, higher insurance premiums all of us end up paying because of the drug war. Here we have to ask, "Why did you steal this car?" A) Was it for a quick joy ride, B) to obtain spare parts for your car, or C) to help pay for the next month's rent, 4) OR was it to buy expensive drugs?" Therefore, were it not for the drug war, we could eliminate reason #4.
The reason for the 18th Amendment was to remove a serious problem of the family breadwinner spending his income in taverns instead of supporting his wife and children. But within 14 years, this nation learned that law enforcement of this personal-choice issue was worse than the problem of alcoholism. -- I wish I could come up with an answer, but why aren't Americans applying the lessons learned from the failure of Prohibition and applying that to the failure of the drug war?
The human cost is the biggest cost. In 1990, there were around 24,000 homicides in the U.S. The large majority were because of the drug war. When one looks at the homicide statistics from 1920 to 1933 (the years spanning from the 18th to the 21st Amendments), the rate of homicides climb from around 1924 and peaked in 1933. After the ratification of the 21st Amendment (Dec 5, 1933), the homicide rate declined steadily and leveled out towards World War II. And, interestingly, the consumption of alcohol actually increased during Prohibition. Very similar to today where we now have more drugs than when Pres. Nixon announced the war on drugs, we have purer drugs and we have cheaper drugs. And we have more than 2 million people in prison and that number will reach 3 million--unless the Iraq war and other factors actually breaks the back of the American economy where the most stubborn and closed-minded will have to cry Uncle and at least release non-violent users and sellers of Schedule One drugs. Most regrettably, we always think in terms of economics, the dollar amount. This Christian-dominated culture seldom thinks in terms of human suffering.
The cost of the drug war has been estimated to be about $40 Billion every twelve months. Does anyone have a figure on how many thousands of drug-related homicides there are in the United States? How many billions of dollars drift across our border into the hands of Latin American drug lords, or Middle Eastern terrorists? If your average American thinks, what do they think about? Hm-m-m. Let me think. Well, there's NASCAR, football, sit-coms, video games, cars--everything but how we can improve the quality of life for everyone.
Does anyone have a figure of dollars spent building more prisons and how much money was NOT spent on education and services to the elderly? In our "wealthy" nation, wouldn't it be possible to make a tuition-free college education available to all those who meet basic entrance exams?
I'm sure the participant of these board discussions can think of lots more things $40 Billion could buy every year: bridge repair, R&D for alternative fuels, advances in science and technology.
Only a few people live in a wealthy America, the rest of us live in a poor America.
--E8Kruesler




Thank you for posting. The reason Americans have not ended the war on drugs is because there are greedy and sadistic people that profit from the war on drugs. Drug enforcement and politicians from the two only political parties allowed to have a fair chance, profit from the war on drugs. They do not care about the damage being done to others, as long as they profit from the suffering the war on drugs causes.


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