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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Need words of advice/support
    #4352676 - 06/29/05 10:58 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Hey everybody,
Never thought that I'd have to be doing this, but, then again, who does? I've had a bad trip and need some words of wisdom. After years of thinking about it I decided to take the plunge into psychedelics using Mushrooms. I spent months reading about it out of pure interest and the thing that I "sensed" more than actually felt was that a lot of the info out there deals with what can go bad, which is good, but can really put some stuff in your head that isn't so good. I realized after the fact that all of the stuff that I read wasn't what I really should have read. Afterwards I checked out the FAQ and read Leary's "The Psychedelic Experience". THAT was what I should have read in the FIRST place. But, too late now.

Anyway, this happened on my second trip (the first was one week earlier). I went into this with the intent of expanding my consciousness, not as a "kick". I read a lot of books on the subject and mostly came out confused because they all had to do with a lot more things than just Mushrooms(LSD, DMT, etc.) and those experiences kind of got all mingled in with the mushroom trip in my mind.

My first trip was 2 grams powdered in tea and the second was 3 grams taken the same way. As I said, I went into this with a very reverential attitude so I tripped alone in the dark both times. The first time was OK as I had some CEV's, but felt that it only opened the door a little for me to take a peek. I was probably too serious about it and had a pretty meaningless trip. That's when I figured that I would go up to 3 grams to get all the way inside the door. Well, be careful what you ask for! My mindset was wrong. I had planned to rest beforehand and ended up sleeping 3 hours more than I planned. I woke up at midnight and even though I didn't really feel "into" it, I jumped up and dosed. I started having thoughts of all the bad things that could happen with a lot of confused thoughts about the effects of other drugs as I was coming up and then got stuck in it. I got nervous and then wanted out. My Ego started throwing everything that I hate about myself into my face in the form of full-blown feelings magnified one hundred times. My CEV's were all of machines and just really mechanical or industrialized...nothing natural. I got really anxious and scared laying there and got up to try to fight it off. I know now that this was the completely wrong thing to do, but that's what happened. With what sense I still had, I told myself that I just needed to ride it out and get what I could out of it because it was already too late. I layed back down and closed my eyes and "dealt" for two hours. The thing is, I only dealt with what was happening and didn't try to/know how to get past it, so I just layed there in Hell. After two hours I just walked around the house tormented by all the shitty feelings that I had felt about myself during the first two hours.

The next day I did some soul searching and thought about the feelings that I had had and came to the conclusion that the shitty things that I feel about myself are things that I've invented to "put myself in my place" and keep me there. As I was figuring this out some feelings arose in me that I can only describe as the way that I ACTUALLY felt some long, long time ago in my life. The way they FIRST felt "real time", not the way that I've learned to categorize them as an adult..in their little box shoved deep down in the recesses of my mind. I thought that this was a really good thing because it was like I was really close to getting to the source of what made me develop this attitude about myself in the first place.

I have a relationship with a psychiatrist through one of my kids that I respect and thought that it would be great to tell her this insight that I had so that maybe she could help me get to the bottom of it. Somewhere in my mind I was hoping that she would have at least a small amount of enlightenment as to what I was doing and what I was trying to achieve by doing Mushrooms in the first place, but no such luck. She's a personification of all the doctors that you read about in the literature that put down the experience and instead of empathizing with what I was trying to do, just started spouting research done by some Doctor about how psychedelics can not only change brain chemistry permanently, but can also change neurological networks permanently too. I'm a firm believer in a "higher consciousness" and explained that I wanted first-hand knowledge of it. I told her that I'd never do synthetic drugs and explained that people have been using mushrooms for hundreds if not thousands of years for enlightenment, but she said that I should have been around in the sixties(I was born in '64)because that was how people thought back then. I felt like telling her that she should have been practicing back then, because that was how Doctors thought in those days because they were so close-minded about this stuff. Now i do have respect for her in that I think that she can help me with my self-image issue, but I'm really disillusioned in her attitude about enlightenment. We decided that we would leave our philosophical views out of it and just work on my past. But this whole thing has really screwed with my mind. I told her that "Hell yes!" I'm gonna do them again because I really believe in what I'm trying to accomplish, although now I know that I'd never do that much alone again without first having someone experienced with me to get me through any rough spots that I might encounter. The real pressing problem is that I have a trip to Peru all arranged to go on an Ayahuasca trip and I'm really afraid of my wavering feelings of fear. I know that I'll be with a Shaman and that comforts me a lot, but then at times(not most of the time, but every once and awhile) this fear comes over me that I'll get down there and chicken out and that I'll never be able to look at myself in the mirror again if I let that happen. I feel that I need to have at least one more trip of at least 2 1/2 grams or so before then try to get to where I can learn let go and see what a great experience it can be and to get my confidence back up, but I don't know anyone in my life that does this that I could have sit/guide me so I'm really stuck in a crappy place. My principles are being tested here in so many ways that it's really got my head spinning. I really want to stay on the course that I'm on because I really believe that it could be a great thing, but I'm also pretty scared and don't know how to get past it in the right way. That's why I figured that you guys were probably the only ones who could really help me get back on course right now. I know that I jumped in too soon and handled it the wrong way now so that's over and done with. What I'd like help on is moving forward.

Any suggestions as to what course I could take and the best way to accomplish it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance and sorry for such a long post.

Schapper


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


Edited by schapper (06/30/05 12:02 AM)


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Offlineharpd
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: VirgilKane]
    #4353364 - 06/30/05 12:54 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I think that another trip might do you well, but the only thing that can help you sort out the issues you've addressed in your first two trips is time. You need to let the things you've learned really sink in and understand how it relates to your everyday life before you can make any significant progress. Keep reading. If you haven't checked it out already, http://www.erowid.org is a great place to start your research. You won't find any propaganda or outdated medical "facts" here. You obviously have a genuine interest in breaking down your ego and discovering the root of your problems. I wouldn't write off LSD so quickly. What you said about opening the door to take a peek is very true of mushrooms. You can take a little peek and on higher doses, you can open the door entirely and look around as much as you want to. LSD can help you step through the door and simply exist on the other side. I hope that makes sense to you. Anyway, keep tripping and keep posting your reports. If you don't have anyone in your life to help you understand the deep levels of consciousness you've chosen to explore, you've come to the right place. There are plenty of people on the shroomery boards who are more than willing to help you along the path, and you may even meet someone from your region of Texas willing to sit with you or (more likely) trip with you. Good luck in your future voyages.

Peace,
DHarp


--------------------
When you get the blanket thing you can relax because everything you could ever want or be you already have and are.


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Offlinenightkrawler
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: VirgilKane]
    #4353433 - 06/30/05 01:07 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

bad trips happen sometime. i'd recommend taking between 2 grams and 2.5 grams before you go to Peru(as long as that's not too soon). i'd wait a couple of weeks to think about the experience that you had, and learn as much as you can from it. i usually recall things that i completely forgot from my trip throughout the few weeks after my trips.

you should also read the doors of perception by aldous huxley. i was trying to find a link for it, but my computers going really slow. you can find it on erowid somewhere.

it just takes practice to learn how to let go, and not fight the trip if it gets hard. you'll get the hang of it.

wish you the best of luck on your next trip
:mushroom2: :mushroom2:


--------------------

Not all who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien


Edited by nightkrawler (06/30/05 01:13 AM)


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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: nightkrawler]
    #4353543 - 06/30/05 01:28 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks, ya'll. It's really comforting to know that there are people out there willing to help out. I'm going to Peru in three weeks so I'll have a couple of weeks to sit with what's happened before trying again. It has only been a few days and I realize in my heart that my brain is in overdrive right now and that things will level out after a while. Thanks a lot for the advice, links and good wishes. I can really use all the right info and vibes that I can get right now.


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: VirgilKane]
    #4353751 - 06/30/05 02:27 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Welcome Schapper,

Thank you for your post. It was quite the read.

Considering you have had such rough experiences, I'm surprised at your insistence to continue your voyages... and I understand your reluctance.

Thank God you are not a teenager. You are emotionally prepared to deal with bigger issues ... otherwise you would have had your shit freaked out after your first two trips.

First, never pass up an opportunity to trip with a Shaman. :wink:

Next, if you want another practice trip, why not try tripping like a hippie? Put on some progressive rock, keep the lights on... and see if you see God.

I suggest taking no more than 1.5-2g until you feel you understand the trip. Your mind's been blown... it seems you are dosing beyond your comprehension right now. Take a step back, change your setting, and it will influence your mindset. If you want to play in the dark, wait until after the peak.

Mindset is KEY... but until you have a good experience tripping, you may not recognize the proper mindset.

The Psychedelic Experience is the best guidebook I know of... if you wish to have a Transcendence Trip... a truly glorious experience. Sensory deprivation can get in the way of this type of trip. Complete darkness is the way of the Shamans, but Leary does not exactly prepare you for such an experience. You kinda' need to see, before you can close your eyes.

As for your girl, it is great if you can talk with her, but I fear she may effect your next trip as much as any negative effects you may read about. She is sceptical, and you haven't experienced anything to refute her opinion. I imagine you will have more interesting conversations after you learn to swim.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: Rose]
    #4354443 - 06/30/05 07:59 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks Cervantes, I was hoping you'd show up here. You hit the nail on the head about not recognizing the right mindset! I never knew it to begin with and still don't. I just had this solemn feeling going into the experience and I know deep down that that's not how the Mushrooms would want me to feel about it since I feel that they're ultimately a kind spirit. I just screwed up out of ignorance and approached it like some "certain" churches want you to approach their religion!!LOL I just took it way too seriously out of the box and forgot that there is also a playful, kind aspect to all of this.

It's really interesting what you say about sensory deprivation getting in the way of a transcendence trip. I've never thought about it that way and thought that it was THE way to do it. That's REALLY helpful! I like your advice on tripping like a Hippie...I really need to find a way to get to the "friendly" aspect of Mushrooms and that seems like a good one. And don't worry, I won't be dosing that much for a good long while! I know that I jumped into the deep end before I learned to swim and I realize that that goes for the sensory dep. thing now also. I'm still confident about the 2 gram level, so for a while I'll stay where I feel safe. I know that I can't use my first trip to judge all trips at that level as they are all different and I don't necessarily have to up my dose to experience different things.

You're also right about my girl effecting my thoughts about a trip in a negative way. That really worries me and that's why I insisted that we leave that part out of it. I think it'd be funny as Hell if I came back from Peru and told her what I thought my main issues were before she could tell me, and that they turned out to be the exact same thing!

And lastly, but most importantly, thanks for that one sentence on tripping with a Shaman! That REALLY parted the clouds for me and gave me a lot of encouragement!

Thanks again for everything!

Schapper


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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OfflineGamera
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: VirgilKane]
    #4355125 - 06/30/05 01:49 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

This is a great post. I have some overlapping issues. After being introduced to psychedelics and treating them in a somewhat cavalier and careless manner, I came to understand that they held important lessons for me. Unfortunately, those lessons have on a few occasions been quite painful.

As a result of a several serious of psychedelic experiences, I came to terms with a number of destructive patterns in my life. Its now been many years since I had a psychedelic experience, but I am anxious to continue my relationship with them (hence my current presence at the Shroomery).

I have also spoken to more than one therapist about my feelings on psychedelics and their potential, but I have yet to find one that had any understanding of their potential. They normally treat it merely as a drug problem. Sounds to me that your psychiatrist was basically feeding you "drugs cause brain damage" which is not particularly encouraging. Those medical professionals who understand psychedelics are few and far between.

In reading your post, a few things came to mind. First and foremost, for those of us who take psychedelics seriously as opposed to merely recreationally, difficult experiences are unquestionably to be expected. In fact, these are often time the most important and life changing experiences we have. Taking a gram and watching TV is not going to teach you anything. Taking three grams alone in silent darkness is. In the past I had to remind myself that a difficult trip is not a failure or an indication of some moral or spiritual shortcoming on my part. Psychedelics sometimes show us what we need to see, not what we want to see. I have never taken iboga, but word is it is intensely and brutally introspective, and yet beautiful and life affirming.

Also, fear can be an important element of the experience. It means first that you are taking the experience seriously. It can also take you places that you don't get to otherwise. John Lilly once said:

Quote:

On my first acid trip in the tank, I panicked. Suddenly I saw the memorandum from the National Institute of Mental Health: "Never Take Acid Alone." One investigator who tried to take acid alone got eaten up by his tape recorder. That's all I could think of. Luckily I was scared shitless, had no idea what was going to happen and boy, that was rocket fuel if ever there was one! I went further out into the universe than I've ever been since.




I have been meditating somewhat sporadically for a number of years and one lesson I have learned is that its not really about calm, relaxation, feelings of bliss etc. More often then not its about seeing clearly attachment, desire, frustration, pain, confusion and the like. When those things are well understood and accepted then we begin to open up to the reality of ourselves and the universe. If you get a chance this is all set forth in brilliant detail in a book called "The Myth of Freedom" by Chogyam Trungpa. The psychedelic experience can often times mirror this. In fact, I have often felt in meditation, fear is absolutely essential, because it means that you have gotten beyond what you hope the reality of your situation is and are starting to actually see. Fear is a great teacher, perhaps the best teacher.

So if you are afraid, that in and of itself should not necessarily dissuade you from future experiences. Take it into account, certainly, but treat it as an indication that you are going into this with open eyes and with an understanding that growth is not always easy.

If you are like me, the greater fear would be the fear of frittering away the rest of your life on trivia, trying to keep distracted enough to ignore the path to freedom at your feet.


--------------------
Money is human happiness in the abstract; he, then, who is no longer capable of enjoying human happiness in the concrete devotes himself utterly to money.

Arthur Schopenhauer


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: VirgilKane]
    #4355494 - 06/30/05 03:31 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Don't worry so much about mindset this next time.

Use your setting.

If you have a BAD mindset, you WILL know. :wink: Don't trip if your mindset is BAD.

Otherwise, make sure your tripping area is nice, has a place to sit/lie and is clean. Then have a LOT of music at your fingertips. Music can effect mindset and setting while you trip, so if you find the right album, it may propel you into the proper mindset.

The Beatles, Pink Floyd, Grateful Dead, Phish, Yes, Dave Matthews Band... you know... the stereotypical trip music... assuming you enjoy it, will help your mindset. Also, you may want to try one or three of Leary's guided trip MP3's they are available to download at the top of this forum.

See, when you trip in pitch black, you limit your SETTING. A n00b tripper needs a visible and audible setting to help keep the mindset.

Once you understand how to trip positively, it becomes MUCH harder to have a bad trip. Your mind won't allow it as readily. Everybody is at risk of having a bad trip... but it is usually the n00bies who get scarred the deepest by such experiences.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: Rose]
    #4355906 - 06/30/05 05:02 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Great insight Gamera!

[Taking a gram and watching TV is not going to teach you anything. Taking three grams alone in silent darkness is. In the past I had to remind myself that a difficult trip is not a failure or an indication of some moral or spiritual shortcoming on my part. Psychedelics sometimes show us what we need to see, not what we want to see.]

This is soo true! I've actually "seen" a lot in the last few days and have realized a lot about myself. I think that it was meant to show me something even though I couldn't see it at the time. It's like I was shown the destination, but it was left up to me as a person to cut a trail through my own mind to get to that destination. I never went into this trying to fix anything about myself, just trying to prove something that I believe in and that I think I CAN actually prove to myself. But now I've come to a conclusion that since "reality" is how you see the world, you have to use how you see yourself as a starting point. I'm reading a book about the Native American Shaman Black Elk right now and in it he says over and over that four things are required to "see" what I'm trying to see. "Courage, Patience, Endurance and Alertness. Those four are always in the same order and I think that they are in order of importance. I guess I kept thinking that being scared was a lack of courage, but then I remembered a saying that says "everyone gets scared, courage is going forward even though you ARE scared". THAT helped a lot.

The part where you talk about meditation is really interesting, too. It took a little while to sink in, but the "Tibetan Book Of The Dead" is ACTUALLY for a living person seeking enlightenment. It talks about all kinds of possibly bad encounters with deities and those people weren't even under the influence of any chemicals other than the ones in their own brains! (IMHO, because I've seen some people say that they really MIGHT have used some kind of drug)

Your last sentence is one that I couldn't have said better myself. We're seeing things from the exact same place on that one!!

Also, thanks for the tip about the book!

Cervantes,

You've really helped a lot here. The way that I thought before, listening to music and stuff seemed frivolous to me for my intent. Now I see that doing it that way could really be a beautiful thing! I didn't know what the term "progressive Rock" meant before. NOW I do! That's my favorite type of music to listen to because I can get lost in it and go on a "trip" straight...I just didn't know the term. You've shed a new light on doing it altered. I looked up Progressive rock on the Internet and found that there are a lot of Internet radio stations that cater to it. I even took my afternoon nap tuned into one. It was really cool so I'm gonna give out the link for y'all to check out...I hope that's OK. http://www.progradio.net/stations.htm

I'm really interested in checking out Leary's guided sessions too. What you said about limiting your setting makes perfect sense to me now and learning to trip positively is exactly what I'm after.

I can't tell you guys how much all the different viewpoints are helping me out. I just THOUGHT that I was ready to drive in the Indy 500 by WANTING to and reading about strategies. I just overlooked the fact that I needed to learn to drive first!!


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: VirgilKane]
    #4358465 - 07/01/05 05:49 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

schapper,

Hi, you've gotten some fantastic advice in this thread already, but I wanted to add my reply. 

I can emphasize sooo much with your situation.  I had a trip last year that terrified me beyond anything I could have expected.  You know, I had heard a lot about "bad trips," and read the stories of trips that went scary, and how the people dealt with it.  I had so much confidence that I could keep the right mindset and stay positive...but I recieved a very harsh lesson for my arrogance.  When you're there...in that "place," it can be overpowering and difficult to resist flailing about, trying to catch your bearings.  The ego gropes for the familiar, it rationalizes and schemes in order to ensure its survival. It may make you fixate and obsess over any minute detail of your life that seems out of place, or conjure up ludacrous scenarios and internal dramas that are hard to bear. 

Thoughts and feelings like this are normal...because you're tripping.  It all depends on how you approach uncomfortable feelings and thoughts during a trip that makes the difference.  It is hard for *everyone* to let go.  I have almost come to view it as an artform, since it takes so much practice and committment  (for me anyway :wink: ).  It took my horrifying trip last year for me to realize that when it came to tripping, I actually had no idea what I was doing.  I had foolishly taken on an expedition that was beyond my current capacity as a traveler.  This happens all the time to people, even on journey's expected to go smoothly.  Nothing should be expected with shrooms, because they will always surprise you.  What I'm trying to say is, everyone is different, but trip enough and you'll eventually have to face something that is difficult for you to process. 

That's when something happens; for me, my flight or fight response kicks in.  Adrenalin starts pounding, I get hot, sweaty, shaky...nauseous perhaps.  Suddenly the world doesn't seem so friendly anymore.  And whether you realize it or not, you have a choice:  accept whatever it is bugging you out and move on, or fixate and stop up the flow of things.  It IS a choice. 

And as many people can testify, the shrooms don't like blockage in the flow. 

Acceptance is key to having a positive trip.  I was tripping while camping not too long ago, covered from head to foot in all sorts of filth, wet from playing in the water and thus cold, suffering from sleep deprivation and tripping hard.  I was sooo uncomfortable, but I sort of made a game of it, decided to enjoy it and included how I felt as just "part of the journey."  That's the entire point of taking a drug like this.  Let's be honest; tripping is not for the faint of heart.  To call it a "journey" and "expedition" (or exploratory mission into hyper-space and the Heart Cave of God :wink: ), is to name it aptly.  Once I accepted the parts of the trip that were uncomfortable as part of the adventure I was having, they became easier to deal with, a lighter burdon, a casualty of my exploration.  Part of me...

Letting go: Hardly anyone has a perfect success rate when it comes to letting go during trips.  We all struggle with it, especially (I've noticed) during the first 'hump' of experience those first few trips.  But like already mentioned, once you've found the "key" to letting go, it gets easier and more enjoyable every time.  Sure you still might have difficult trips; but you'll know how to deal with them in a more productive way rather then misery or anxiety. 

Now the "key"...depends on you.  Think of it as your triggers, the tactics you can employ mid-trip that will help you go with the flow.  A major one, is regulated breathing, as in a breathing meditation.  What may help is to lie your body completely flat, imagine that you exist in liquid form, relax your every muscle.  Breath deeply, in and out, focusing only on the gentle rise and fall of your chest.  Breathing and a mind focused on acceptance are the only things that keep me serene if I am tripping hard.  Another tip is to memorize some phrases that bring you comfort, such as 'heaven is here,' 'go with the flow,' 'be here now,' that type of stuff.  Language is powerful when you are tripping.  Which reminds me...

If you feel anxious during a trip, open up your mouth and sing!  Terence Mckenna advises to sing if you are uncomfortable, and the shaman's of the Amazon sing icaros to aid in their visionary work with Ayahuasca.  Many months ago I was tripping outside with some friends, and one guy was having a hard time.  For some reason, I just started singing, a low, monotone, ohm-like sound, words I never knew I had just coming out.  Soon the entire group was singing, and the dude had a big smile on his face.  We humans are just one big vibration; to sing our own song is an intimate (I say sacred) activity and useful tool while tripping hard. 

The most important thing about letting go...is that you just need to do it.  That's it.  Just. do. it.  No thinking.  Just doing. Become a passive observer in your mind; you will have time to reflect later.  Now is the time for experience.  You won't be in that "place" for very long, so you might as well try to enjoy it.  :smile: 

Just let yourself be swept away in the journey for a few hours.  :heart: 

good luck


*me*


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: MOTH]
    #4358795 - 07/01/05 10:35 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

That singing, vibratory therapy idea is great.

Wow. I had about five truely perfect and forever in my mind wonderful acid trips when I was fourteen, then I started having bad trips and I couldn't get back to the good ones. It was like my brain got hard wired into the experience.

The good trips gave me a real sense of enlightenment and understanding of humanity, purpose of things (None), joy, and so on. The bad trips really made me afraid for my sanity, my personality, and my health.

I must have had ten bad acid trips.

But then between the good trips and the bad my destiny was altered, or perhaps forged. During the bad trips, in retrospect I actually learned a great deal, and feel no real loss. I had a couple truely psychic experiences that proved to me the truth that such things are possible.

So I can say that LSD gave me true belief in life. Call it belief in God, or in the Clear Light, or the Dakini, or in Sri. It doesn't matter the name. When I look back on all my first 20 acid trips I was laying the framework for who I later was to become, and for what I later was going to try to do.

I love when people bring up the Bardol Thodal (Book of the Dead). It's a Shitro or cycle of practice relating to 6 intermediacies, and 6 realms of beings. Much of the Bardo teachings are about the Clear Light.

Those who might have studied any Dzogchen teachings on the Rushan and 6 realm purification teachings would understand that as humans we have at least six chakras or major centers in the body which are alligned to six realms of beings which range from the demonic to the angelic. The Dzogpachenpo seeks to liberate all these beings spontaneously. A book directly on this point from Guru Padmasambhava himself is "Natural Liberation."

My point is that at the time of the trips I didn't realize that all these realms existed within my own physical form. Oddly the first bad trip I had was set off by a crappy home made form of meditation from a wanna be guru, which drew energy up from the feet to the crown, which I attempted on acid. Wanna guess what happened? I pulled the demonic energy up in an extremely open minded state of synchronicity and then the rest of the bad trip occured. Word of advice? If one is using such a form of meditation where one is either pulling energy up or down then pull it down from the crown first.

At any rate. I ended up going into meditation and spent many years doing it. 25 or more now.

But when I was 21 I started doing acid again after meditating for four years really intensely and I started having neutral trips, not bad, not good.

This last was good healing for my mind's fears that I was permanently damaged from my bad acid trips. I wasn't, nor was I afraid of acid again after that, though I did feel that it interfered with smooth samadhi experience, mainly through too much heat or tejas in the central channel.

People with awakened kundalini need to be more careful than others about what they are doing, but on the other hand they might already have more flexible minds and so not so easily overcome by dualistic good vs bad trips.

Finally, I tripped on Peruvian Torch many many times since then and encountered only great things, with nary a hangover. So I am of the mind that Torch is very sweet for the body and not so heat creating for the nervous system. I would recommend this over shrooms even.

I know the thread was about shrooms. I am trying to show my sympathy for all bad trippers out there and give you some perspective.

Some people are probably barely hanging on. It's true. For them I recommend studying Dzogchen under someone like Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. The main reason being that one must become comfortable with their own minds and bodies and learn to not judge their experiences into harsh black versus white categories and as far as I know only the teachings of nonduality can give one this perspective and tools.

I am not specifically a Namkhai Norbu follower having never seen him live. But I know a couple of his followers and they're really knowledgeable and cool. Some of the best people I've ever met.

I didn't mean for this to be a religious diatribe, but it would be hard for me now to separate how I got it together without the various teachings I encountered, such as the Bardo Thodal teachings mentioned.

All that said, the Bardo isn't something acheived in stages like in Timothy Leary's book, but they are more like sections of pipe which have been broken and so one forgets who they were from one life to another. Bardo teachings seek to fix the pipeline between lifetimes so that one can create a steady stream of awareness so as to more quickly acheive buddhahood.

At this point in my life I consider everything I have done and learned to be mainly some subset of experience towards liberation and accumulation of the merit and wisdom necessary for that.

In that vein if someone cares for what I wrote and finds it good guidance then I dedicate whatever merit there was to the liberation of all drug users from all substances, and towards their liberation into the clear light of bliss itself. So that it may become permanent.

Namo Guru Dewo Dakinibhya Hri
Peace Out


--------------------
...or something







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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: VirgilKane]
    #4359182 - 07/01/05 01:00 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

lots of structure.
many shoulds
some judgement, recrimination, remorse, embarrassment - I am familiar with it all.


no harm has been done.
but
what do you want to do about it?

the medicine can be used to intensify the above structure (as you experienced)
or
the medicine can be allowed to dissolve it a bit or a lot for a short time.

the structure is important, but you may not want to fit it too tightly - at least sometimes it makes sense to just let go.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: VirgilKane]
    #4360515 - 07/01/05 06:48 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

schapper said:
I'm gonna give out the link for y'all to check out...I hope that's OK.  http://www.progradio.net/stations.htm





Fantastic link man! There is something for every tripper there.

Thanks...

You better let us know how your next journey goes... or... or I'll... reach through the internet and give you a bad trip of my own... Muahahahahaha! :tongue:


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: Rose]
    #4360798 - 07/01/05 08:16 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

WoW EllemyshShade, thanks for sharing that even experienced trippers can have difficulties too. As you can imagine, I've come to a lot of notions about myself in the last few days, mostly due to the fact that you guys have all taken the time to reply. I really understand the "arrogance" part now. It's not like you feel "cocky", just confident and comfortable. My trip really showed me that you shouldn't take anything for granted. It was a humbling experience and I feel better for it. It's really made me slow down and open my eyes to the things around me and appreciate them more.

I've known for a long time that I carry a lot of tension around with me and have just learned to accept it. My first trip, even though it was pretty uneventful was very tense, I actually felt good and all, but I was really tense the whole time. The muscles that "normally" get tight in my everyday life were REALLY tight on that trip and I came away with one major insight-MAN, you gotta RELAX. I really started trying to do that in everyday life after that, so something good DID come out of that trip and your breathing/focusing techniques are gonna be something that I remember for sure for the next time and I hope that being shown first hand what trying to fight it will do will make me look back at my response last time and go "no way, not gonna trick me again". I realized yesterday that even though I've had periods of fear (real heart pounding stuff) over the last few days after my bad trip just thinking about it, I can't remember my muscles being this relaxed. I know that that sounds like a contradiction, but all the muscles that are usually tense in me are not anymore.

As for the singing strategy, well that's a great idea!! I'm such a shitty singer that it'll probably make me start cracking up! LoL!!
Seriously, though, I DO know what you are saying and I appreciate the advice and even more your sharing your experiences with me.

Eve 69, All I can say right now is thanks for the words of wisdom.


{I know the thread was about shrooms. I am trying to show my sympathy for all bad trippers out there and give you some perspective.

Some people are probably barely hanging on. It's true. For them I recommend studying Dzogchen under someone like Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. The main reason being that one must become comfortable with their own minds and bodies and learn to not judge their experiences into harsh black versus white categories and as far as I know only the teachings of nonduality can give one this perspective and tools}

I definitely don't want to limit this discussion to just mushrooms by any means. A bad experience is a bad experience no matter how you get there and your insight on it is great. So is your insight on Leary's book, that's really interesting. As far as the other things you were saying, well, I'll have to do some reading up on that and probably PM you since this reply is getting too long as it is. Sounds like some really interesting stuff and if it can get you to the place you mention in your last paragraph, then I'm all for it!

Redgreenvines, Great advice, makes perfect sense to me...now. Good wisdom and it's a good thing that I'm reading a book by a Shaman right now, you talk just like him!

Cervantes, you got it Man!! Makes me feel good to give back a little...


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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Offlineheavensgate
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: VirgilKane]
    #4360882 - 07/01/05 08:42 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Hey man...I'm not sure if you're experienced enough yet to handle a trip on shrooms in silent darkness, unless you have a completely clear and content mindset beforehand.

That said, if you want to experience the "happy" part of shrooms, try taking them out in nature. Find some nice woods or a nice big meadow, go outside on a sunny day, and trip while listening to pleasant music (beatles, grateful dead, moody blues, marley, etc.) I really believe that out in the woods, closest to God or the universal spirit, is the best place to leave yourself behind and explore other realms of your mind. It is just very relaxed, peaceful, full of life and energy, with vibrant colors and textures, sounds, and sweet smells all pouring into your soul. The environment outdoors will still allow a revealing and introspective trip, while helping to guide you in a peaceful way through your mind. Being in nature really does give you a feeling of being connected to the whole world, and the true beauty of existence shines through more than anywhere else. You could take 3 grams again out in nature, and I will bet that the trip will be much, much better. But, this is all just my opinion, you have to find what is right for you.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: VirgilKane]
    #4360957 - 07/01/05 09:09 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

The trip tension, IMO is a physical manifestation of your ego.

Tension is clinging, holding or hanging on... RELAX is a harsh word. You don't need to RELAX, you must simply let go. Let go of the body/mind.

:smile:

I LOVE stretching a bit, during the come-up.

And the Nature advice is good... but wait 'till Peru... baby step for now. That said, you may wish to trip during the daytime, so outside is an option.


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: Rose]
    #4360985 - 07/01/05 09:27 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks heavensgate.  Sounds NICE! :laugh:  I had planned a trip with a friend for August at a lake in Austin before this experience.  I wasn't really looking forward to it the day after, but I am now.  He's an old acid head from back in "the day" and I'm looking forward to having him around!

Cervantes, I'm still having trouble differentiating the two.  I've been thinking that letting go WAS relaxing.  Can you let go and still be tense and vise versa??  Are you saying that one is for the body and one is for the mind?  Any examples for this?


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: VirgilKane]
    #4361075 - 07/01/05 10:01 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Letting go IS relaxing... but the phrase, "Let go" actually tells you in a constructive manor, what you should do :wink:. The word, "RELAX" is vague in meaning... it feels like you must DO SOMETHING in order to RELAX... but do what exactly? Let go. Trying to RELAX often causes and increases tension. :smirk:

"RELAX, or I'll shoot!"

As for the body/mind... if the mind is part of the body, isn't the body a part of the mind? :wink:

Your ego works in mysterious ways, but when you trip, your ego clings for dear life (As Leary, and the Buddhists discuss)... the ego is VERY egotistical. This can manifest mentally, and IMO, physically... the ego is very sneaky... like when the tension caused your muscles to physically TAKE HOLD during your trip... I suspect THAT was a physical manifestation of your ego clinging to life.

If you learn, to "Let Go" physically during a trip, you will, "Let Go" mentally and vise-versa. Don't waste your time trying to RELAX. It is counter productive, and a piss-poor word :smirk:. Instead, "Let Go". Just like you reached the First drop-off on a roller coaster. Raise your arms, and let gravity do the rest.

Semantics are important... crucial... especially with someone as literal as you. :tongue:

We are all discussing something words can not describe... so I am being as specific as I possibly can... you will REALLY understand many of the pointers you have been given... AFTER you take your next plunge.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: Rose]
    #4361153 - 07/01/05 10:27 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, but.....

Nah!  Just messing with 'ya!!  THAT I understand!  Thanks for putting it like that Cervantes, best (only)  description I've seen yet. 

Bet you needed a drink after THAT one, huh?  And to think, you USED to enjoy this job!!:argh:

  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Need words of advice/support [Re: VirgilKane]
    #4361548 - 07/02/05 12:42 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I hit the bar immediately after...

... asshole!

:smile:


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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