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Offlineblackout
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Re: Selection of "Psilocybe atlantis" [Re: Workman]
    #4320913 - 06/21/05 01:58 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

How does sclerotia formation compare to mexicana A. Faster? Higher yield? or is it still to early to say...

It looks very different from the mexicana sclerotia, more like a vegetable like a potato


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Selection of "Psilocybe atlantis" [Re: blackout]
    #4320939 - 06/21/05 02:05 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Far too early to say. Formation of small sclerotia was fairly rapid though, at least as fast as the fastest mexicana.


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OfflineShdwstr
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Re: Selection of "Psilocybe atlantis" [Re: Workman]
    #4321212 - 06/21/05 03:07 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Workman said:
Exactly, but probably not those exact names. 




Excellent :smile:
Seeing as we named our daughter Atlantis, I'll just have to acquire both, as long as whatever name you choose includes "Atlantis" :laugh: 
Hope you'll have it in print form.

Superb work... congrats.

Shdwstr


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Selection of "Psilocybe atlantis" [Re: Workman]
    #4351323 - 06/29/05 03:50 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Before the mini test trays were destroyed, the grass seed was broken apart to check for sclerotia. Unfortunately, tray #2 was destroyed before it was checked. Still, there are some interesting results with the remaining four trays.



ATL #7 stands out with much larger but fewer sclerotia. Even though the total yield is lower, the ease of harvesting a few large and impressive stones is a worthwhile trade-off. This wasn't a scientifically designed test of sclerotia production and too much shouldn't be read into these results. The weights don't take into account mushroom production and the grass seed in each tray wasn't carefully measured.

In contrast to P. mexicana and P. tampanensis this species forms sclerotia entirely inside the substrate. P. mexicana and P. tampanensis tend to form the majority of their sclerotia between the glass-substrate interface or in the casing. "P. atlantis" consistantly hides its sclerotia deep within the substrate and they only become visible when they incidently grow up to the glass.



This image is a cut away view of a grass seed "cake" showing the sclerotia.

Close up of sclerotia from ATL #7. The largest two stones weigh 6.0 and 5.0 grams.



Out of the 5 strains, the three below will be tested further.

ATL #1 Largest fruits with good spore production. Decent sclerotia yield but many tiny stones.

ATL #3 Fastest fruiting and sclerotia formation, small fruits but good spore production. Highest total sclerotia yield but many tiny stones that make harvesting tedious.

ATL #7 Small fruits that develop late, moderate spore production. Largest sclerotia, very few small stones, no tiny stones.

update 8/17/05: I found a portion of the ATL#2 tray contents in the compost pile several weeks ago. It only contained the small sized sclerotia and didn't seem exceptional in any way.


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Edited by Workman (08/17/05 01:39 PM)


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InvisibleEonTan
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Re: Selection of "Psilocybe atlantis" [Re: Workman]
    #4351811 - 06/29/05 05:45 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup:


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Selection of "Psilocybe atlantis" [Re: EonTan]
    #4354206 - 06/30/05 02:47 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Very interesting, nice table.
The other item of note is that most people find that large sclerotia is more potent than smaller ones (anecdotal?). So the actual yeild of active substances may be more even though the weight is small in #7. Have you any way of testing psilocybin/psilocin levels?

Harvesting sclerotia is a real pain, so the bigger the better. Sclerotia forming throughout is a real bonus, if you are going to bother growing it, it may as well be in as big a jar as you can find or in a/c bags which you can just pile into a big incubator. Have you any theories on the glass interface occurence? Do you think adding glass or thin plastic discs to a large jar of mexicana sclerotia would induce more sclerotia?

My big unanswered question is do you think adding water during a sclerotia grow will help? I find the spent grains extremely dry when harvesting and feel that the sclerotia may have grown more if it had water to make the nutrients available to it. It seems to make sense that it should have additional water throughout the grow, just like normal mushrooms. Cased mexicana grows have added water and sclerotia is reported as fast growing. If a sclerotia bag is ready to harvest I cannot see the harm in dunking it over night and leaving it a few weeks more. But I think it may be more beneficial to add water slowly through the grow just like normal shrooms get.

What temps are these growing at? my ideal strain would grow big potent sclerotia throughout a substrate at 20C.


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Selection of "Psilocybe atlantis" [Re: blackout]
    #4372877 - 07/05/05 04:39 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I don't have any quantitative method of measuring psilocybin or psilocin levels.

I think that the mycelium forms the sclerotia at the point it runs out of room and/or food. This makes sense with morels, tamps and mexicana, but it doesn't explain why "atlantis" behaves differently.

I don't think adding more barriers to the jar in the form of glass or plastic plates will increase sclerotial volume. I would expect that you would just get more smaller stones instead of the large ones that form on the glass. I think that the total volume of the sclerotia can't be improved much, but I am not certain.

I do agreed that supplimental watering is likely to increase total sclerotial yield. Overly dry substrates produce stones poorly. You might try adding some rice to a grass seed mix since it holds a great deal more water than just pure grass seed alone.

20C = 68F. These were being fruited at 25C = 78F and were not intended for sclerotia production. They may produce differently at lower temperatures.


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Selection of "Psilocybe atlantis" [Re: Workman]
    #4500015 - 08/05/05 01:08 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Strain ATL#7 should be released by early next week. I expect that strain ATL#1 will be available later this month.


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Re: Selection of "Psilocybe atlantis" [Re: Workman]
    #4500179 - 08/05/05 01:35 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Excellent. Has anybody tested them for potency yet, not analytical testing, just guaging from effects? e.g. a comparison to cubes.


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: Selection of "Psilocybe atlantis" [Re: Workman]
    #4504524 - 08/06/05 05:56 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Beautiful. :smile:
said parasitic vendor should be cut off at the knees. :evil:
and to hell with extensive testing, i prefer wild specimens.(mush more fun to work with). :thumbup:


Edited by deanofmean (08/06/05 10:20 PM)


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Re: Selection of "Psilocybe atlantis" [Re: deanofmean]
    #4562398 - 08/21/05 11:39 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I found this Atlantis thread very insightful. You?re comment on adding a small portion of rice to a sclerotia grain mixture in order to supplement moisture was of particular interest. Was this just speculation or have you any experience using this method?
Also, I couldn?t find the volume of the containers you used in your grow. They look as if they hold about a 1 cup to 1.5 cups


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Re: Selection of "Psilocybe atlantis" [Re: stvenkman]
    #4567231 - 08/22/05 04:57 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

The containers are exactly one cup (Gladware brand).

I haven't tried the addition of rice myself but it was mentioned in Gartz's book "Magic Mushrooms Around the World"


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InvisibleShroomOmatic
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Re: Selection of "Psilocybe atlantis" [Re: EonTan]
    #4567567 - 08/22/05 06:36 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

EonTan said:
:thumbup:




Very nice


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Re: Selection of "Psilocybe atlantis" [Re: ShroomOmatic]
    #4569807 - 08/23/05 08:21 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I have a atlantis LC growing at the moment. Lots of growth now, it is almost 5 days since innoc. Unfiltered honey water to about 2% max. Lots of honey proteins are in the bottom of the jar so it is hard to say when first growth occured, they seem to like the proteins. Used 1/2cc in a 500ml LC. I did not shake after injection which I think helps as the germinating spores will find a mate close by.

I am preparing substrates at the moment. I have 1.25kg of dry wheat. I am also trying a wheat flour and water mix, with some coffee, honey and lime in it. I will also try some whole brown rice.

Any other substrate recipies will be most welcome.

I am also going to try adding additional sterile water during the wheat grow, anybody who has grown sclerotia will have seen the over dry grains upon harvest, I feel that nutrients could be left in those grains, adding water may make those nutrients available.


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