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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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need help from everyone
    #434427 -

Please help a fellow mycologist find a serious hole in his system. I will try and describe the steps used and you find the problems...This has cost 100's of jars of birdseed-grain-brf... nothing has worked... talking an honest 2-3% success rate... so here it goes...

1. Boil birdseed with water for 45 minutes...
2. Dump out bs and wash off and let cool
3. Plase BS in bowl with a bottle of H2O2 and more water and let sit overnight
4. Pressure cook BS in Jars for 75 minutes at 15-20 PSI depending how much attention is being payed.
5. When done... quickly seal jars (quick turn of the lid) and let cool creating a tight vaccuum..
6. Take jars to Glovebox.. place in glovebox and heavily spray with lysol and sometimes bleach solution
7. (All done in glovebox except heat sterilizing). Grab a beautifully colonised plate of H2O2 agar... cut into wedges with a red hot knife and use red hot tweezers to trasfer to each jar...
8. Take jars to "grow" room and let them sit...
9. 1-2 days later jar shows obvious signs of massive bacterial contamination....
10. Screem F*** at the top of lungs and throw out all contaminated jars.
11. Don't lose hope and find someone on Shroomery to help.

I have added H2O2 to the jars (3-5 cc's) and that just seem to piss off the bacteria more and they grew even faster.. My agar wedges have no chance.. some don't even produce and fuzz before they refuse to grow anymore.

I have received so many tips from this site that I would never have even gotten this far... I see all the pics of beautifully colonised jars and awesome casings and it almost makes me cry.. I can't for the life of me figure out what to do... This bacteria cannot be beaten by standard steralizing techniques I know of... Thanks for any help..

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Re: need help from everyone [Re: Mycofriend]
    #434434 -

#5, you've got to let the jars cool in th PC.
What are you doing for air exchange in your colonizing jars?
This bacterial problem rarely infects PF substrate.

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Re: need help from everyone [Re: puscle]
    #434441 -

Thanks puscle for the quick reply... I will give that another try and see what happens...Do you think the bact. could get in the minute I open the lid to the PC and quickly turn and tighter the jars? I used to use the polyfill in a hole method plus different hole configs depending on what tek I was using, but thought that maybe the contams were getting in there from the various holes. RIght now I have no holes what-so-ever. I have had some cakes grow just fine without the need for air exchange. I don't currently use the PF method because I need to use agar wedges, and don't use syringes anymore.

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Re: need help from everyone [Re: Mycofriend]
    #434461 -

what about micron magic discs? maybe if you could just pressure cook with the lids on tight with a filter disc, and then covered with foil to keep water in the right places....i'm just starting and my pf style jars seem to be doing well with them...just have the filters etc in place and after the pressure cooking let the jars cool overnight in there? then xfer to the glove box? maybe that'd help (a twist on what puscle said. give credit to him)

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Re: need help from everyone [Re: Mycofriend]
    #434475 -

Are you positive you are getting 15 psi in your pressure cooker?
Cook longer?
Does your substrate contaminate without innoculation?
Let your jars cool in the pressure cooker overnight, spray with lysol before opening. Maybe put some tinfoil on the tops of the jars before pressure cooking.
What kind of pressure cooker do you have?
Sometimes the rubberseal kind have uneven sealing. The pressure goes up and down!!!! This always happens over time if you don't replace the seal. The metal to metal kind will also do this without a good lubricant coating in between the metal to metal seal.
It sounds to me like your substrate is not getting completely sterilized. Your cultures are peroxidized, so I can't imagine there is latent contamination. So you are either introducing the bacteria at innoculation, which is unlikely, or when you open the cooker to tighten the tops of the jars. But sounds like the bacteria is already present in the jars of substrate before cooking and after.
Sounds like alot of Peroxide though, I never use the stuff and never get higher than 10% contamination at any stage. Usually less then 3% contamination.

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Re: need help from everyone [Re: ]
    #434488 -

I'm having the same thoughts on my end Teonan. My pressure cooker is a brand new All American pressure steralizer. I use patroleum jelly for the metal to metal seal. That is what is recommended.. I also let it steam out for 4 min. before closing the release valve just like the directions say. I will for sure save one jar this time to see if it is bad from the beginning. I haven't heard many people go over 75 min. Is there really that much bacteria around to contaminate the jars right when the cooker is opened? I'm going to do a set right now and let them cool overnight before anything is opened, then spray with lysol once the cooker is open and tighten the lids. Then go to glovebox and try the new tek... Thanks...

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Re: need help from everyone [Re: Mycofriend]
    #434523 -

Depends on the volume of jars of substrate you are cooking. Also the amount of jars. The more you do, and the larger they are, the longer you should cook. Also what you are cooking, like wood chips, sawdust, etc.. can need longer time, up to four hours at 15psi.
I rarely go longer than 90 minutes with rye grain in quart jars. Most of the time I don't soak overnight or precook either. Accounting for most of the extra contaminant percentage I get above 3%. Presoaking overnight in warm water, then cooking results in a reduction in that rate. But I am content with the results I get, for the time that gets put into each stage.
All my bacteria problems arrise from the substrate not being sterilized properly. All my trichoderma outbreaks come from unsterilized casing soil. The rest of the molds, come from everywhere, at anytime. Usually from mental errors during transfers.
Peace Teonan

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Re: need help from everyone [Re: Mycofriend]
    #434542 -

Shame on all of you for missing this!
You say you boil your B/S and wash off. Then you let your B/S sit in water over night. Then you load your jars and P. cook. All in that order.
Well your almost their....Let your B/S sit in water for about a day. Then lightly boil your B/S for 1 hour. Then you procced to wash off, and load your jars for P. cooking.
By you doing these backwards you leave some sludge and all that bad stuff still in their. Probably only a fraction but it could still screw things up. Make things sticky in the jars.
Use this scale when sealing your jars......1-5. 1 being a 1/4 turn and the lid will fall off, 5 being a 1/4 turn and you lid will be so tight that the glass will break. Well with all that being said......P.cook your jars using that scale on 4. When your done the seal on the jars will be very tight. Let jars sit in P. cooker for at least 10 hours.....better to let them sit overnight though. Forget all that lysol shit...no need. Just use oven tek. Thats all I use.....been working for 4 years now, and only lost one casing, and 0 jars.....not kidding either!
The problem could also be your glovebox.....you might want to check that over. One more thing.....forget that H2O2 also.
What I mean by that is....don't ever inject that stuff in your jars. I can't beleive someone instructed a newbie to do that.
Save it for sterilizing.
Good Luck!


--------------------
I am the vine, you are the branches. If a man remains in me, and I in him, he will bare much fruit.
Apart from me you can do nothing. john 15:5

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Re: need help from everyone [Re: fiddler4u]
    #434556 -

OK fiddler.. I'm on it like bluebonnet.. I will do exactly as u say and give u some feedback.. thanks to Teonan and puscle for there help...

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Re: need help from everyone [Re: Mycofriend]
    #434580 -

Your welcome friend :)
Anytime you need help PM me. I'm not the greatest...but I've been in this alittle while now :)


--------------------
I am the vine, you are the branches. If a man remains in me, and I in him, he will bare much fruit.
Apart from me you can do nothing. john 15:5

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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